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Armageddon is a real war, which will kill large numbers of people in a literal sense. True or false?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bouan Philippe, May 10, 2021.

  1. FaithWillDo

    FaithWillDo Active Member

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    Dear Bouan,
    The book of Revelation is a book that was "signified" to John. In other words, the message of the book is given to John in spiritual symbols. It is not literal. Christ uses the physical to describe the spiritual.

    Christ came to earth to save mankind and to do that work, He changed the Old Covenant of Law to the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. The New Covenant works to clean the inside of our cup (inward, spiritual), whereas the Old Covenant works to only clean the outside of our cup (outward, physical). The Old Covenant has never saved anyone. The only pathway to salvation is through faith in Christ.

    The book of Revelation is about the unveiling of Christ within His chosen Elect. All the events that are played out in the book are spiritual and happen "within" us. They do not happen out in the world as you believe. Your understanding is carnal and not spiritual. You are still seeing Christ in the flesh.

    The destruction that you see from the verses you quoted is speaking of the judgment of our Old Man, our carnal nature. Unless He is destroyed, we cannot be saved. Christ destroys him by judgment. Parts of Revelation describe this destruction of the Old Man within His Elect. That is how Christ purifies us. It is not an outward purification, it is 100% inward.

    Until you can start understanding the difference between the two Covenants, most of scripture will remain hidden from your understanding.

    1Cor 2:11-14 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Joe
     
  2. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    Obviously, I reject everything you have said because it's not in my interest to entertain your concerns.
     
  3. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    Obviously, it presupposes that Christ can be treated like any other human, which could only be true if He is not the Son of God (Colossians 2:9).

    But of course, you know that I'm not open to any suggestions by people who disagree with my version of the Bible, therefore it's a complete waste of time to try and persuade me, because I will reject anything which is incompatible with my worldview.
     
  4. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    What is the point of this thread, then? You said "discuss" but then you rejected any discussion.
     
  5. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    Actually, the discussion was meant to gauge the full extent of Opposition to my viewpoint, but I've never pretended that I would be open to alternative viewpoints.
     
  6. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

    If you see this as only by war that is up to you.
     
  7. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Well than Proverbs 18:13 really does apply to you than; doesn't it.

    And besides; where do you think anyone here is implying that Jesus isn't the Son of God?
     
  8. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on whether or not one thinks that Armageddon is the last event leading up to the 2nd coming, if that person should interpret it as a real war or in another sense altogether.

    This is what Jesus said in the Discourse.

    Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    I'm assuming the wars meant are meaning real wars. Verse 6 says---for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet---while verse 8 says---All these are the beginning of sorrows.


    And if Armageddon is a real war, Armageddon can't then be meaning the end of this age since Jesus said the end is not yet, in regards to any real wars.

    If one interprets Armageddon as a real war, is this lining up with what Jesus said in Matthew 24, and is it lining up with when you think Armageddon is meaning and what that leads to? Per one's interpretation, does Armageddon lead to the end or something else?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  9. 2BeholdHisGlory

    2BeholdHisGlory Still on vacation!

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    I seemed to have missed the earth conversation

    The bible has lots of places where it references the earth in various ways

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
     
  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Of course something can be literal and spiritually speaking, but the Apocalypse of St. John isn't an example of that.

    Our Lord's resurrection from the dead is literal, and it is profoundly spiritual in what it means, has accomplished, and what it says--Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death; and because Christ is risen, the first-fruits of the resurrection of the dead, so too will we be raised up on the Last Day.

    It's not a dichotomy between literal and "spiritual"; but between literal and non-literal. The Apocalypse is not a literal text, it's an apocalypse.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I didn't think I could persuade you of anything.

    I just think it's important to challenge assumptions.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    I think you're a futurist because it's convenient to assume that Armageddon is not WW3, which would kill far more people than WW1 & WW2.

    Most people would like to think that their country wouldn't be invaded and their people subsequently killed by this war, but such wishful thinking is a fallacy of logic.

    Besides, futurism is not part of Christianity in the mainstream, as far as I'm aware.
     
  13. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

    The mere mention of the "earth" in verse 19 is proof that the War of Armageddon is literal because it will take place on the earth, which implies the engagement of conventional military forces.

    It discredits the assumption that Armageddon is only a figurative war, but the real military conflict entails violence, death and destruction in a literal sense.
     
  14. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of logic, which country will be the invader if all countries will be invaded?
     
  15. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    I have never said that all countries will be invaded during the Millennial kingdom.

    Presumably, the "vessels of mercy" (Romans 9:23) are those countries which will never be invaded (which are mostly Christian nations), but it doesn't mean that they wouldn't come under the indirect economic influence of the global superpower, which is presently the USA.

    The future EU might be dominated by the military and economic power of the ascendant country.

    Besides, Daniel 11 seems to be another OT prophecy of the End Times, whereupon it's quite clear that there would be at least two superpowers during Armageddon and the Millennial kingdom.
     
  16. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    So, we have countries that will be invaded.

    And countries that will never be invaded (Christian nations).

    Who will be the invader, then... the Christian nations?

    Also, can you even imagine Russia, Canada or China to be invaded, technically?
     
  17. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    Probably, the Christian nations with a Hegemon.

    There is no reason to suggest that an Orthodox Christian nation such as Russia should be invaded, but it's more likely that they would enter into a long term political union with the other Christian nations of Europe.

    However, I believe that China could be easily invaded by killing all of their military personnel and by neutralizing their entire military equipment, which includes their weapons of mass destruction.

    Because they are not a Christian nation I think they should be conquered, invaded, and subjugated (and brought to heel).
     
  18. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds more like Islam than like Christianity.

    Are you close to some muslim community in France?
     
  19. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe Member

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    The people of Europe have been forcibly converted to Christianity by the Romans, otherwise, Europe wouldn't be Christian at all.

    Attacking a Non-Christian country doesn't make me Muslim, but the suggestion is a logical Non-sequitur.
     
  20. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Are you close to some muslim community in France? Just a question, because you seem to be influenced by a similar mentality.

    We are called to peace, not to invade anyone just because they are not Christians.
     
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