• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Arizona Senate Intends to Hand-Count 2.1M Maricopa County 2020 Ballots; Not Clear How

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by essentialsaltes, Mar 19, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

    +4,279
    United States
    Catholic
    Single
    US-Democrat
    While I'm not a lawyer, I'm reasonably certain that they're not considered "sworn statements" unless admitted as evidence in court. An affidavit must be notarized, but the notarization is simply to verify that you are who you say that you are. So no, they're not made under penalty of perjury.

    But even if they were, in order to prove perjury, you must first prove that they're knowingly lying, and not simply mistaken or confused. As that's a difficult bar to pass, most prosecutors aren't going to bother.

    The FBI did not give a number.

    While such actions are not good, they're not evidence of election fraud. Also, why not report the assault to the police?
     
  2. Deviant Writer

    Deviant Writer I choose the World. I choose the Flesh.

    525
    +384
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I'm a court reporter and I swear witnesses in on a near-daily basis. People contradict themselves. People forget details both small and large. People outright lie. Them taking an oath doesn't change that, whether it's "sacred" or not. At the end of the day, it's eye-witness testimony, and if it's so unreliable when cops are assaulting people, then it doesn't magically become reliable when it tells the conspiracy theorists what they want to hear.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  3. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

    +2,429
    Pagan
    Single
    US-Others
    The purpose is to pay tax money to the counter of the votes for re-counting them.
     
  4. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

    +21,211
    United States
    Atheist
    Legal Union (Other)
    LINK

    Volunteer observers of the GOP’s shady “audit” of Maricopa County, Arizona’s 2020 election results are being required to sign non-disclosure agreements, local station ABC 15 reportedTuesday night.

    The document also purports to restrict observers from making “public statements, social media posts, or similar public disclosures” about the audit without authorization, or until after the audit’s results are public.

    --

    Is there a point to observers if they can't talk about what they've seen?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

    +301
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    When have you heard of an audit that has released the results before it is finished? The Russian collusion story turned out to be based on one person's false story, let's wait for the presentation of results agreed upon by the auditors themselves. Audits are hardly "shady," this is what should have been done in states last November.
     
  6. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

    +25,834
    Agnostic
    Single
    who said anything about results?

    We're talking observtions.

    --has nothing to do with anything. Stay focused.
     
  7. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

    +21,211
    United States
    Atheist
    Legal Union (Other)
    Election observers point out irregularities when they see them. They do not announce results.
     
  8. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

    +301
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    This is NOT an election, the election is over. This is an audit, any weaknesses or wrongdoing are found then laws can be added or changed to ensure future elections. After Democrats lost the legal battle to stop the subpoena of the election ballots and machines they came up with a list of complaints, there was a verbal agreement to let the Secretary of State have three observers present and now Democrats and Republicans have a legal written agreement which I have NOT read.
     
  9. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath

    +4,280
    United States
    Deist
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    What do you hope this audit to find?
     
  10. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

    +21,211
    United States
    Atheist
    Legal Union (Other)
    Then why even have this sham pretence of observers?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  11. SimplyMe

    SimplyMe Senior Veteran

    +6,087
    Christian
    Married
    I've been staying out of this, others have been pointing out the many flaws in your argument well enough and, despite my showing you -- complete with links -- the flaws of your argument, you keep repeating the same things. I did decide I should link this to, again, show the value of many of these "SWORN complaints under penalty of perjury" -- direct from the courtroom camera in Arizona (the state we are talking about) where Trump's own lawyers admit that they found many of these "SWORN complaints under penalty of perjury" were clearly false:



    I'll also point out, as others have stated, that the Trump lawyer's, in the same court, made clear they were not alleging fraud or a "stolen election."

     
  12. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

    +301
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    We're talking about the audit in Arizona and people have asked what the auditors are looking for. It would be irresponsible for auditors to fail to examine issues that were brought up in sworn affidavits. I've said that in sworn statements I have examined in the past I have found a small percentage to be false. I suspect some of the election statements are false, we know their were many lies told by Democrat officials in Georgia about why the counting supposedly stopped, Republicans can lie too. Let's just see what if any problems the audit identifies and see if we can come together as a nation to fix the problems. You are right in that a lot of the wrongdoing brought up in the lawsuits was not fraud. For example, racial slurs are not fraud, shoving observers is not fraud.
     
  13. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

    +301
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    Katie Hobbs, the Democrat Secretary of State, insisted on appointing three observers for the audit. You would have to ask her.
     
  14. Nithavela

    Nithavela Touch Fluffy Tail

    +14,452
    Germany
    Other Religion
    Single
    Matthew 5:34
     
  15. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

    +11,185
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Amateur hour....as outlined by the AZ Secretary of State: (noting the AZ Governor, Attorney General have remained silent to date):

    Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs (D) on Wednesday sent a letter outlining a string of problems that she said observers from her office have witnessed at a Republican-led recount of the 2020 presidential election results in Arizona’s largest county.

    In the six-page letter, Hobbs wrote that elections are “governed by a complex framework of laws and procedures designed to ensure accuracy, security, and transparency” but that the procedures governing the ongoing recount in Phoenix “ensure none of those things.”


    Concerns based on disclosed procedures
    1. The procedures are vague and insufficient to ensure accuracy and consistency
    2. The counting process incorporated the use of untested, uncertified systems
    3. The counting process departs from best practices for accurate hand tallying of ballots
    4. The procedures do not detail a clear process for aggregation
    5. The procedures fail to adequately protect and document chain of custody of ballots
    6. The “forensic audit” of ballots lacks any credibility or basis in actual election operations
    7. There were no procedures for hiring qualified, unbiased counters

    Concerns based on observation
    1. There is inadequate physical security of ballots
    2. There was no livestreaming or observer access to the forensic processing of Maricopa County’s
    election equipment.
    3. Computers at “forensic analysis” tables were left on and unattended
    4. There is risk of commingling counted and uncounted ballots in a batch, leading to some ballots being double-counted and others not being counted at all
    5. The constantly changing rules cause confusion and counting errors, and undermine the reliability of the results
    6. Frequent violations of the limited procedures that do exist, and a disregard for best practices or basic security

    Mr. Bennett, as a former Secretary of State, you know that our elections are governed by a complex framework of laws and procedures designed to ensure accuracy, security, and transparency. You also must therefore know that the procedures governing this audit ensure none of those things. I’m not sure what compelled you to oversee this audit, but I’d like to assume you took this role with the best of intentions. It is those intentions I appeal to now: either do it right, or don’t do it at all.

    Sincerely, Katie Hobbs Arizona Secretary of State

    Read details in the letter:
    https://context-cdn.washingtonpost..../0e40bd63-9f64-4c84-b60b-f6f13d6c0dc6.#page=1
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • List
  16. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

    +25,834
    Agnostic
    Single
    And Biden won. Get over it.
     
  17. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

    +6,682
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Others
    without chain of custody, this entire audit won't be worth anything. this is just theater.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  18. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

    +21,211
    United States
    Atheist
    Legal Union (Other)
    They are investigating the ballots. That's what was in those big boxes.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  19. NxNW

    NxNW Well-Known Member

    801
    +504
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    Arizona’s Republican-Run Election Audit Is Now Looking for Bamboo-Laced “China Ballots”

    "There’s accusations that 40,000 ballots were flown in and stuffed into the box and it came from the Southeast part of the world, Asia. And what they’re doing is to find out if there’s bamboo in the paper . . . this is part of the mystery that we want to un-gaslight people about," audit liaison John Brakey told Dennis Welch of CBS5 News.

    During a press conference for the audit last week, Brakey said what auditors were “looking for is folds in pieces of paper, because there’s a guy who came out and said certain things, that the ballots were stuffed, that we’re going to find bamboo in the paper.”

    Bennett, the spokesman for the audit, then confirmed, “we’re evaluating the paper. We’re evaluating the paper.”

    Are we even sure it came from Earth?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  20. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

    +4,846
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Green
    That is bizarre. Why would they bother flying in fax ballots from China?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...