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Arizona mall shooter was angry incel

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by essentialsaltes, May 22, 2020 at 2:34 PM.

  1. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    Prosecutors said the 20-year-old in custody on suspicion of shooting three people at the Westgate Entertainment District in Glendale came armed with 90 rounds, and intended to use them, “but for the gun jamming.”

    At his initial appearance Thursday, prosecutors described Hernandez as a “self-professed incel,” short for involuntary celibate, who was “angry” at society and sought to target couples at Westgate. One prosecutor said Hernandez was “pretty open about the fact that he has a dark side, and his dark side was coming out.”

    One victim, a 19-year-old male, remains in critical condition. In court, prosecutors said the victim suffered severe blood loss from a gunshot wound to the chest, causing long delays in doctors’ efforts to perform surgery.

    Another shooting victim, a 16-year-old girl, was transported to a hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

    A third victim, a 30-year-old woman, was treated at the scene.

    A judge ordered Hernandez be held on a $1 million cash bond. He faces 16 felony charges related to the shooting.
     
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  2. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 3:09 PM
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  3. Rene Loup

    Rene Loup A Saved Wolf Among Sheep

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    Assuming the Incel forums aren't a bunch of trolls and Poe's, these people seem to want teenage porn star girlfriends while they themselves have various personality disorders. When an orgasm becomes more valuable than a human life, that's when you're going to be in for a bad time.
     
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  4. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    Incel attacks have not been uncommon in the last few years. When this fact has been pointed out, some people complain because I guess they don't want a light shed on this depraved community. But it is important that we address this culture and the toxic masculinity that birthed it. Its very existence is partially a reflection of our society, and in the least, the type of behavior considered acceptable in society (i.e., the attitudes and ideas expressed in incel circles).
     
  5. Mantishand

    Mantishand Member

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    I think porn causes this. These young men watch porn and expect that they deserve sex and women etc. I don’t know what “toxic masculinity” is, sounds like liberal anti-man, feminist type stuff.
     
  6. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    That may be part of the problem, because there seems to be resistance to even discussing the topic of toxic masculinity.

    It's certainly not anti-man.....it's anti entitled men like these guys that self-identify as incels. I agree that porn is part of the problem.

    If you're willing to invest about 15 minutes, this video (IMO) does a great job of summarizing what toxic masculinity is:

     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 4:45 PM
  7. Trogdor the Burninator

    Trogdor the Burninator Senior Veteran

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    This is the part of the thread where we don't talk about guns, correct?
     
  8. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Since the two things he indicates define masculinity he then acknowledges define all of humanity, either he didn't actually define masculinity, or thinks it is not a helpful concept.
     
  9. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    This is the part where we acknowledge that incels have also killed people by other means than guns.
     
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  10. Trogdor the Burninator

    Trogdor the Burninator Senior Veteran

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    Not in the same numbers they don't. This guy only killed three people because his gun jammed.
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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  12. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    That I know of none have died in this incident yet, thankfully. Be glad he used a weapon he didn't know how to operate properly, instead of taking the route of a better known incel:

    Toronto van attack - Wikipedia
     
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  13. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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  14. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Since this was in America the gun issue is always there in a shooting. But the problem is not just in America.

    It is a bit like the Royal Commission in Victoria, Australia looking into the factors that drive family violence. A large percentage of their homicides involve family violence, which is a trend worldwide. A variety of weapons, or no weapons at all may be used.

    Understanding what drives that behavior and warning signs might do more to help in those particular situations, apart from only limiting weapons.

    In this case though it is more complicated. You can recognize signs in your boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, etc. but these are people acting out on strangers who are not directly involved. But the attackers are relaying a motive. And we need to try to see if there is a way to resolve the issues for individuals, and in society that may drive this behavior.
     
  15. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    He is talking about how our culture generally defines masculinity, but he is demonstrating throughout his talk that it's a problem to do that.
     
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I understand that. But he didn't give a better definition of masculinity as he proposed to, unless it is to erase masculinity in favor of shared humanity.
     
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Did you watch the whole thing? It's not an erasure of masculinity to say that "to be a man" is defined by how well a man loves others.
     
  18. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Yes, I watched the whole thing. And he expressly stated that he sees the two traits he gave as common to humanity, and that all people think that when they come to their death bed. Which I can largely agree with.

    But then that is defining what is critical to humanity, not to masculinity per se.
     
  19. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    There are a lot of angry men who resent their circumstances. When I hear their spiel about women or beta men I know I've encountered a problem. You can't reason with them. Most are time bombs waiting to blow.

    ~Bella
     
  20. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    That ought to be what is critical to men (relationships...how well you've loved others). The fact that it is a shared value coincides with what the apostle Paul wrote about....does it not?

    ETA: Jesus even summed up His premium instruction to humanity into two points - love God....love others. To me...when a man has that as his main focus, he is being the best of masculinity. The polar opposite of toxic masculinity.

    Is that too icky that it's not a different instruction for women?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 6:14 PM
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