Arianism and Semi-Arianism's Impact on the Gospel

[Grip Docility]

Burden of the act of Salvation is upon God and God alone. (Isaiah 43:11 / Luke 2:11)

Burden of accepting God's Salvation unto mankind is on mankind. (1 John 2:2 ; John 6:28-29)

Any condescension of The Son in doctrine, at any point, beyond what is written as the Son's Own Will, (Philippians 2) brings about an instant point of theological skew.

The skew is as follows and is upon the following logic....

"The Son is created Arianism": We are creations as well, and are thusly held to the same standards of the flesh as the Son.

"The Son is an Angel Arianism": The Son is not God, thus we are to look at the Son's perfection to see what is required of us in replication to be saved.

"Semi Arianism - Condescension of the Son unto eternity": The Son emptied Himself and is to only be viewed as a Human vessel of God, that is again, our required standard of Perfection to be saved.

"Semi Arianism - Substance Division of the Trinity - The Father and Son are of two separate Psychological distinctions - God of the old testament differs from the God of the new testament": God merely saved us from our past sins and we are responsible to walk sinlessly to obtain salvation, after salvation.

"Full Blown Arianism - Jesus is not and never will be God": Salvation is only obtained through merit of a life subject to the commandments of God.

The bottom line is that the blood of God sealed our salvation, and any alteration to this truth about THE TRUTH removes that the Sinless took on the curse of all sin that the Sinfully condemned could be declared "The Righteousness of God".

We are not called to be HE, as Isaiah 14:14 shows this is a mark of bad theology. God complexes serve no human being well, in matters of salvation.

Proof Verses : Hebrews 2:14 ; John 3:16 ; 1 John 2:2 ; 2 Corinthians 12:9 : 2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Your post is interesting but I'm not sure its points can be backed up by the original source material. I've never got the impression of Arianism that it made those kinds of claims, but I will try to post a few links to some of the few extant doctrinal sources we have on what the Arians actually taught. (Other than Church Father quotes).


The Thalia of Arius


Arius Letter to Alexander of Alexandria


CHURCH FATHERS: Epistles on Arianism (Alexander of Alexandria)


Debate Between Maximinus, A Homoian, And Augustine, A Semi-Modalist

 

[Pavel Mosko]

"Full Blown Arianism - Jesus is not and never will be God": Salvation is only obtained through merit of a life subject to the commandments of God.

I actually think a more accurate way of saying that is that only the Father is True God, or fully divine. Arians do not discount divinity to the Son but do not believe he is all powerful, and possessing the other infinite attributes of the Father.

Certain theological constructs like Metatron Judaism have some parallels with Arianism.

Metatron - Wikipedia

 

[Grip Docility]

Your post is interesting but I'm not sure its points can be backed up by the original source material. I've never got the impression of Arianism that it made those kinds of claims, but I will try to post a few links to some of the few extant doctrinal sources we have on what the Arians actually taught. (Other than Church Father quotes).


The Thalia of Arius


Arius Letter to Alexander of Alexandria


CHURCH FATHERS: Epistles on Arianism (Alexander of Alexandria)


Debate Between Maximinus, A Homoian, And Augustine, A Semi-Modalist

I could link you to books of debate I’ve had with Arians and Semi Arians on other sites... that support my claims... but I assure you, it’s written in repetition from perspective of doctrine that spans many people of many different flavors of Christology.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I'm curious of how many of the Arians are from a Messianic Jewish background. Over the years, surfing the internet I've noticed a lot of people attacking the Trinity as a pagan construct coming from the back ground.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm curious of how many of the Arians are from a Messianic Jewish background. Over the years, surfing the internet I've noticed a lot of people attacking the Trinity as a pagan construct coming from the back ground.

There are Messianic Jews that are Trinitarian in Belief, but they bring it to MonoTheism so clearly that even Trinitarians would be struggling to keep up with their usage of scripture. Trinitarians are indeed monotheistic... but some can be confused at how it all plays out.

There are Messianic Jews of the sort you describe, as well.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm curious of how many of the Arians are from a Messianic Jewish background. Over the years, surfing the internet I've noticed a lot of people attacking the Trinity as a pagan construct coming from the back ground.

Adoption type beliefs are exceedingly gnostic, without knowing so. There’s those too.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

There are Messianic Jews that are Trinitarian in Belief, but they bring it to MonoTheism so clearly that even Trinitarians would be struggling to keep up with their usage of scripture. Trinitarians are indeed monotheistic... but some can be confused at how it all plays out.

There are Messianic Jews of the sort you describe, as well.

Yes I've known some. But I've seen a proliferation of people in the last 10-15 years who are rediscovering Arianism by virtue of believing that Trinitarianism is a pagan corruption of Christianity.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Adoption type beliefs are exceedingly gnostic, without knowing so. There’s those too.

Another actually are the ancient Ebionites who some think influenced Mohammed. They pretty much cast Jesus in the role of an old Testament prophet.

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus is the Son of God. A son of a human is human.

If Jesus is "truly" God's Son, He is divine like His Father.

A father does not create his son.

Also, Paul says Jesus is "the image of God", in 2 Corinthians 4:4. If an image is of gold, there is nothing but gold in that image. Like this, if Jesus is "the image of God", I consider this can mean there is nothing but God in Jesus. So, He is God, in the form or image who He is . . . human form, but all God.

 

[Grip Docility]

Jesus is the Son of God. A son of a human is human.

If Jesus is "truly" God's Son, He is divine like His Father.

A father does not create his son.

Also, Paul says Jesus is "the image of God", in 2 Corinthians 4:4. If an image is of gold, there is nothing but gold in that image. Like this, if Jesus is "the image of God", I consider this can mean there is nothing but God in Jesus. So, He is God, in the form or image who He is . . . human form, but all God.

And ofcoarse the Son is uncreated, and born of Mankind and God to bring forth the Incarnation of God.

 

[com7fy8]

the Incarnation of God

- - - shows how God is not conceited.

Even though He is so superior, "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). So, as the Person of Jesus, God came to us in order to reach us and save us and share all His own good with us. Because even though Jesus is so superior and God's own Son, Jesus is not at all conceited; so He left Heaven itself in order to come to us and bless us.

Because "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16).

Love does not give less than its own best. God was giving His own Self and Best by giving us His own Son.

Or else, God has been sending us some second-best blessing of some lesser being, than Himself, and this would not fit with how the Holy Spirit shares God's very own love with us, right "in our hearts" > Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, the Holy Spirit also is God's own best which would be Himself. Jesus called the Holy Spirit "another Helper" to come after Jesus > John 14:16. Now if the Holy Spirit is God and "another", to come after Jesus, this would mean Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equal. So, is the Holy Spirit God?

If the Holy Spirit can share God's own love with us, I understand this means that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God's own love. And only God can be the Spirit of His own love. Plus, the Holy Spirit forms Jesus in us > Galatians 4:19 > so, I see, the Holy Spirit will not form an inferior being in us, when God is able to form His own Self in us. Why would God do less, and then spend eternity with less than children who are like Himself in His love?

Jesus says the Holy Spirit is like water > John 7:37-39. The water of a mother's blood can cross her unborn baby's placenta and carry all the nutrients an unborn child needs to form baby brain, baby heart, fingernails, bones and marrow, liver, skin, and all else of her unborn child . . . all made from stuff of water!!!.

God uses liquid mother to make a wiggling squiggling giggling baby. And, in a way, that baby is his or her mother, because the child is made of what was in the mother's blood liquid.

And, like this, the Holy Spirit is liquid Jesus flowing in and through us, "with the washing of water by the word" (in Ephesians 5:26). And the Holy Spirit forms into Jesus, as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19, 2 Corinthians 3:18 < and transforms us to share in that image in us . . . I now understand.

And indeed it is written >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

This does not say we are becoming like a second-best or lesser being, but "as He is, so are we in this world." God's love in us will do nothing less. But, of course, we are still being corrected and cured and matured in this. But God Himself in us is forming Himself in us, by forming Himself into the Person of Christ in us. Jesus is God, then, in us and not only on the throne.

I understand that no lesser being would do . . . to spend all eternity with a second-best being. God is able to change us into the image of His own Son so delighting to Him.

"For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are saved and among those who are perishing." (2 Corinthians 2:15)

So, indeed our Father is changing us to become more and more of the nature of Jesus so we are sweetly pleasing to Him like His own Son. And God is not going to be pleased by less than a Being of His own goodness and how He is in love. And Jesus shares this with us, as much as we grow in Christ >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, it would be interesting to see if Arians are telling us things like this, about how a person becomes and lives because of Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person. And do they understand that love gives its own self and not less > meaning the best love is and has? I would say there is the love application for a correct theology of God.

God does not accept less than Himself and His goodness; but humans are the ones who can be pleased by and seek inferior things, in order to get pleasure. So, humans, I can see, can feel God would send and want a lesser being, and so they could think Jesus is some lesser being who can please God adequately. But humans have the problem of sin making them feel even awful so they are willing to settle for what is not love, trying to use people and things to make themselves feel what is nicer than their own selfishness-infected nature.

Therefore, do we love the way Jesus is so not conceited? Jesus left Heaven itself in order to reach us who "were children of wrath just as the others," our Apostle Paul does say. So, Jesus did not come to pick and choose who was good enough for Him to love. We all have been equally "by nature children of wrath, just as the others" (in Ephesians 2:3); none of us, therefore, have deserved and been good enough for Jesus.

So, it is wise not to be busy with looking down on anyone, from our own selfish little heavens of conceit and self seeking, but have hope for any evil impossible awful person, at all . . . like how Jesus was a "sweet-smelling aroma" on the cross, giving Himself with hope for any evil person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

But I have not been loving like this; I have been conceited, then.

The correct theology has this love meaning, in any case . . . I would say So, does our theology have us only arguing and proving ourselves right, or does our theology have us discovering how Jesus has us pleasing our Father sweetly and fragrantly while loving any and all people as ourselves????????

 

[Grip Docility]

- - - shows how God is not conceited.

Even though He is so superior, "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). So, as the Person of Jesus, God came to us in order to reach us and save us and share all His own good with us. Because even though Jesus is so superior and God's own Son, Jesus is not at all conceited; so He left Heaven itself in order to come to us and bless us.

Because "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16).

Love does not give less than its own best. God was giving His own Self and Best by giving us His own Son.

Or else, God has been sending us some second-best blessing of some lesser being, than Himself, and this would not fit with how the Holy Spirit shares God's very own love with us, right "in our hearts" > Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, the Holy Spirit also is God's own best which would be Himself. Jesus called the Holy Spirit "another Helper" to come after Jesus > John 14:16. Now if the Holy Spirit is God and "another", to come after Jesus, this would mean Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equal. So, is the Holy Spirit God?

If the Holy Spirit can share God's own love with us, I understand this means that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God's own love. And only God can be the Spirit of His own love. Plus, the Holy Spirit forms Jesus in us > Galatians 4:19 > so, I see, the Holy Spirit will not form an inferior being in us, when God is able to form His own Self in us. Why would God do less, and then spend eternity with less than children who are like Himself in His love?

Jesus says the Holy Spirit is like water > John 7:37-39. The water of a mother's blood can cross her unborn baby's placenta and carry all the nutrients an unborn child needs to form baby brain, baby heart, fingernails, bones and marrow, liver, skin, and all else of her unborn child . . . all made from stuff of water!!!.

God uses liquid mother to make a wiggling squiggling giggling baby. And, in a way, that baby is his or her mother, because the child is made of what was in the mother's blood liquid.

And, like this, the Holy Spirit is liquid Jesus flowing in and through us, "with the washing of water by the word" (in Ephesians 5:26). And the Holy Spirit forms into Jesus, as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19, 2 Corinthians 3:18 < and transforms us to share in that image in us . . . I now understand.

And indeed it is written >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

This does not say we are becoming like a second-best or lesser being, but "as He is, so are we in this world." God's love in us will do nothing less. But, of course, we are still being corrected and cured and matured in this. But God Himself in us is forming Himself in us, by forming Himself into the Person of Christ in us. Jesus is God, then, in us and not only on the throne.

I understand that no lesser being would do . . . to spend all eternity with a second-best being. God is able to change us into the image of His own Son so delighting to Him.

"For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are saved and among those who are perishing." (2 Corinthians 2:15)

So, indeed our Father is changing us to become more and more of the nature of Jesus so we are sweetly pleasing to Him like His own Son. And God is not going to be pleased by less than a Being of His own goodness and how He is in love. And Jesus shares this with us, as much as we grow in Christ >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, it would be interesting to see if Arians are telling us things like this, about how a person becomes and lives because of Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person. And do they understand that love gives its own self and not less > meaning the best love is and has? I would say there is the love application for a correct theology of God.

God does not accept less than Himself and His goodness; but humans are the ones who can be pleased by and seek inferior things, in order to get pleasure. So, humans, I can see, can feel God would send and want a lesser being, and so they could think Jesus is some lesser being who can please God adequately. But humans have the problem of sin making them feel even awful so they are willing to settle for what is not love, trying to use people and things to make themselves feel what is nicer than their own selfishness-infected nature.

Therefore, do we love the way Jesus is so not conceited? Jesus left Heaven itself in order to reach us who "were children of wrath just as the others," our Apostle Paul does say. So, Jesus did not come to pick and choose who was good enough for Him to love. We all have been equally "by nature children of wrath, just as the others" (in Ephesians 2:3); none of us, therefore, have deserved and been good enough for Jesus.

So, it is wise not to be busy with looking down on anyone, from our own selfish little heavens of conceit and self seeking, but have hope for any evil impossible awful person, at all . . . like how Jesus was a "sweet-smelling aroma" on the cross, giving Himself with hope for any evil person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

But I have not been loving like this; I have been conceited, then.

The correct theology has this love meaning, in any case . . . I would say So, does our theology have us only arguing and proving ourselves right, or does our theology have us discovering how Jesus has us pleasing our Father sweetly and fragrantly while loving any and all people as ourselves????????

If it isn’t about Love... it’s no thing. As in... 1 Corinthians 13:2

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