Are your beliefs rational?

quatona

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How do you know that this will never happen after you die?
I didn´t say anything like that. I just contradicted your statement:
"Again, if you wake up after being dead you will have verified that you're immortal."
Simply because it inaccurate (as you had admitted before).
 
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Chriliman

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This truth can indeed be demonstrated and known.

The 'truth' that all beings will forever cease to exist after death cannot be verified because a living being would be required to verify anything.
 
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Chriliman

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I didn´t say anything like that. I just contradicted your statement:
"Again, if you wake up after being dead you will have verified that you're immortal."
Simply because it inaccurate (as you had admitted before).

You're losing me?

I know never ending life can't be verified to end, but if you know death is in the past then you've verified that you're alive and can't die.

I don't understand why you think this isn't logical.
 
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John 1720

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Would be curious to see how you define rational. With that said, i believe it is rational to accept things that can be verified with reality. With that said, i wouldnt say it is irrational to believe in things that can not be verified, but it would bs irrational for someone to claim they have verifiable evidence to believe something, when this evidence can not be demonstrated. When this happens, personal psychological need, is taking priority over being rational.
I think this definition is fair:
  • Rationality is the quality or state of being reasonable, based on facts or reason. Rationality implies the conformity of one's beliefs with one's reasons to believe, or of one's actions with one's reasons for action.
  • Rationality - Wikipedia
 
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Belk

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The 'truth' that all beings will forever cease to exist after death cannot be verified because a living being would be required to verify anything.

It can be verified. I can show evidence that any living being that dies ceases to exist.
 
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Gene Parmesan

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I would never claim to know what happens to our consciousness at the time of death. But everything we do know about consciousness seems to rely quite extensively on the brain. I think it is rational to believe that once the brain ceases, so does our consciousness. To suggest anything more would be to make assertions about the nature of consciousness that has yet to be demonstrated.
 
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Chriliman

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I believe that I am seeing the point. You are claiming we do not have evidence that we cease to exist when we die. I am stating that this is incorrect.

That's not what I'm claiming.

I'm claiming its not possible to verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death.

Think it through before responding 'We can verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death'
 
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Chriliman

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I would never claim to know what happens to our consciousness at the time of death. But everything we do know about consciousness seems to rely quite extensively on the brain. I think it is rational to believe that once the brain ceases, so does our consciousness. To suggest anything more would be to make assertions about the nature of consciousness that has yet to be demonstrated.

Can I suggest that it simply changes into a different state of existence?

We see it happen all the time when people go to sleep or become unconscious. Given the evidence that consciousness can change states, why assume it must cease to exist upon death? There's no evidence that anything can vanish from existence anyway, plus how could you verify that something changed from existing to not existing? Doesn't something have to exist in order to change?

Why can't consciousness change from the state of being alive to the state of being dead, while existing the entire time?
 
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Belk

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That's not what I'm claiming.

I'm claiming its not possible to verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death.

Think it through before responding 'We can verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death'

I have thought it through and I disagree. It is possible to verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death.
 
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Gene Parmesan

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Can I suggest that it simply changes into a different state of existence?
You are welcome to suggest anything you like.
We see it happen all the time when people go to sleep or become unconscious. Given the evidence that consciousness can change states, why assume it must cease to exist upon death? There's no evidence that anything can vanish from existence anyway, plus how could you verify that something changed from existing to not existing? Doesn't something have to exist in order to change?

Why can't consciousness change from the state of being alive to the state of being dead, while existing the entire time?
Dreaming supports the idea that consciousness can exist outside of a brain? I'm sorry, I don't see the connection at all.
 
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Chriliman

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I have thought it through and I disagree. It is possible to verify that all consciousness will forever cease to exist after death.

When all consciousness actually ceases, who will be around to verify it?

If no one, then it can't ever be verified.
 
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Chriliman

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You are welcome to suggest anything you like.

Dreaming supports the idea that consciousness can exist outside of a brain? I'm sorry, I don't see the connection at all.

No, its supports the idea that consciousness can change states of existence.

Again, how would you verify that something ceases to exist rather than changes from one state of existence to another?
 
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Belk

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When all consciousness actually ceases, who will be around to verify it?

If no one, then it can't ever be verified.

Anyone who is still conscious. The world does not disappear simply because you close your eyes.
 
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Gene Parmesan

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No, its supports the idea that consciousness can change states of existence.

Again, how would you verify that something ceases to exist rather than changes from one state of existence to another?
I make no claim to be able to verify someone's consciousness ceasing to exist. I just contend that claiming consciousness can leave the brain and migrate to a supernatural realm to be a much grander claim. And since what happens to consciousness at the time of death can't be totally verified, the point-of-view with the fewest unjustified claims seems to be the more rational view to hold. Of course simply, "I don't know," makes the most sense here, in my opinion.
 
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Chriliman

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I make no claim to be able to verify someone's consciousness ceasing to exist. I just contend that claiming consciousness can leave the brain and migrate to a supernatural realm to be a much grander claim. And since what happens to consciousness at the time of death can't be totally verified, the point-of-view with the fewest unjustified claims seems to be the more rational view to hold. Of course simply, "I don't know," makes the most sense here, in my opinion.

No problem with those who claim to not know, but some claim to know consciousness ceases to exist without really thinking through how to verify that something changes from existence to non-existence.
 
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Chriliman

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Anyone who is still conscious. The world does not disappear simply because you close your eyes.

Do you believe that eventually all consciousness will cease to exist?

Or do you not know for sure?
 
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