Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?


  • Total voters
    60

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?
I voted yes. Here's why:
I grow weary of having to explain it to family/colleagues who object to everything Catholic (Roman Catholic).
I assume they are EOs, Protestants, JWs, Mormons or atheists?.........
I voted no but then I have fun with it telling people ‘I’m catholic just not Roman’. And watch their eyes glaze over ^_^
Nice! LOL
Nope. We are all God's creation and the denomination isn't as important as accepting Christ as savior is.
Psssst, don't let the RC's or EO's hear you call them that ^_^

I voted no, since my bro OUSA was wise enough to use the small letter "c". :oldthumbsup:

New Statement of Faith at Christian Forums

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

*The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: OrthodoxyUSA
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Now days that line refers to (first) the Roman Catholics, and (second) to the Oneness Pentecostals (the Apostolics)

Forgive me, but Apostolic means of Apostolic origin, such as Catholics and Orthodox Christians, Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, and others. Oneness Pentecostals do NOT have apostolic origin. As a matter of fact, the Oneness Pentecostal movement began in 1913. IF that is true, then it cannot have Apostolic origins, can it?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Jipsah
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Why worry if somebody thinks "catholic" means the Catholic Church. In conversational English it usually does mean Catholic. That's just a fact.

That proves not to be the fact. I've either lived in or visited almost every state in the Union, and whenever and wherever I go, Catholic, without any modifiers, means the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Forgive me, but Apostolic means of Apostolic origin, such as Catholics and Orthodox Christians, Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, and others. Oneness Pentecostals do NOT have apostolic origin. As a matter of fact, the Oneness Pentecostal movement began in 1913.
IF that is true, then it cannot have Apostolic origins, can it?
And which Apostolic denomination/church should one join, and which one has the fullness of truth?
Perhaps I should just call myself an "orthodox catholic" ehehe

Praying with Heretics

ProScribe said:
I'm not sure if Catholics are actually heretics.
Pro-Scribe - you are Orthodox - correct ?

Then , according to Orthodoxy, Catholics are indeed heretics
 
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,285
2,868
59
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟142,274.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Warning: Large amount of text... One section is titled "Its catholicity".

From the book "Orthodox dogmatic theology"

You can find the whole book here. > Orthodox dogmatic theology - Table of Contents - IntraText CT
Attributes of the Church

Its unity.

In the Greek text the word “in One,” is expressed as a numeral (en mian). Thus the Symbol

of Faith confesses that the Church is one: a) it is one as viewed from within itself, not divided; b)

it is one as viewed from without, that is, not having any other beside itself. Its unity consists not

in the joining together of what is different in nature, but in inward agreement and unanimity.

“There is one body and one spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling one Lord,

one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you

all” (Eph. 4:4-6).

Depicting the Church in parables, the Saviour speaks of one flock, of one sheepfold, of one

grapevine, of one foundation stone of the Church. He gave a single teaching, a single baptism,and a single communion. The unity of the faithful in Christ comprised the subject of His High

Priestly Prayer before His sufferings on the Cross; the Lord prayed “that they all may be one”

(John 17:21).

The Church is one not only inwardly, but also outwardly. Outwardly its unity is manifested

in the harmonious confession of faith, in the oneness of Divine services and Mysteries, in the

oneness of the grace-giving hierarchy, which comes in succession from the Apostles, in the oneness

of canonical order.

The Church on earth has a visible side and an invisible side. The invisible side is: that its

Head is Christ; that it is animated by the Holy Spirit; that in it is performed the inward mystical

life in sanctity of the more perfect of its members. However, the Church, by the nature of its

members, is visible, since it is composed of men in the body; it has a visible hierarchy; it performs

prayers and sacred actions visibly; it confesses openly, by means of words, the faith of

Christ.

The Church does not lose its unity because side by side with the Church there exist Christian

societies which do not belong to it. These societies are not in the Church, they are outside of

it.

The unity of the Church is not violated because of temporary divisions of a non dogmatic

nature. Differences between Churches arise frequently out of insufficient or incorrect information.

Also, sometimes a temporary breaking of communion is caused by the personal errors of

individual hierarchs who stand at the head of one or another local Church; or it is caused by their

violation of the canons of the Church, or by the violation of the submission of one territorial ecclesiastical

group to another in accordance with anciently established tradition. Moreover, life

shows us the possibility of disturbances within a local Church which hinder the normal communion

of other Churches with the given local Church until the outward manifestation and triumph of

the defenders of authentic Orthodox truth. Finally, the bond between Churches can sometimes be

violated for a long time by political conditions, as has often happened in history (Two examples

from recent church history may serve to illustrate the character of these temporary divisions. In the early 19th century,

when Greece proclaimed its independence from the Turkish Sultan, the parts of the Greek Church in Greece itself

and in Turkey became outwardly divided. When the Patriarch of Constantinople, who was still under Turkish authority,

was forced by the Sultan to excommunicate the “rebels” in Greece, the Orthodox in Greece refused to accept this

act as having been performed under political coercion, but they did not cease to regard the Patriarch as a member of

the same Orthodox Church as themselves, nor did they doubt that his non-political sacramental acts were

grace-giving. This division led to the formation today of two separate local Churches (in full communion with each

other): those of Greece and Constantinople.

In the 20th century Russian Orthodox Church, a church administration was formed in 1927 by Metropolitan

Sergius (the Moscow Patriarchate) on the basis of submission to the dictation of the atheist rulers. Parts of the

Church in Russia (the Catacomb or True Orthodox Church) and outside (the Russian Church Outside of Russia) refuse

up to now to have communion with this administration because of its political domination by Communists; but

the bishops of the Church Outside of Russia (about the Catacomb Church it is more difficult to make a general

statement) do not deny the grace of the Mysteries of the Moscow Patriarchate and still feel themselves to be one with

its clergy and faithful who try not to collaborate with Communist aims. When Communism falls in Russia, these

church bodies can once more be in communion or even be joined together, leaving to a future free council all judgments

regarding the “Sergianist” period.). In such cases, the division touches only outward relations, but

does not touch or violate inward spiritual unity.

The truth of the One Church is defined by the Orthodoxy of its members, and not by their

quantity at one or another moment. St. Gregory the Theologian wrote concerning the Orthodox

Church of Constantinople before the Second Ecumenical Council as follows:“This field was once small and poor . . . This was not even a field at all. Perhaps it was

not worth granaries or barns or scythes. Upon it there were no stacks or sheaves, but perhaps

only small and unripe grass which grows on the housetops, with which 'the reaper

filleth not his hand,' which do not call upon themselves the blessing of those who pass by

(Ps. 128:6-8). Such was our field, our harvest! Although it is great, fat, and abundant before

Him Who sees what is hidden . . . still, it is not known among the people, it is not

united in one place, but is gathered little by little 'as the summer fruity, as the grape

gleanings of the vantage; there is no cluster to eat' (Micah 7:1). Such was our previous

poverty and grief (Farewell Sermon of St. Gregory the Theologian to the Fathers of the

Second Ecumenical Council).

“And where are those,” says St. Gregory in another Homily, “who reproach us for our poverty

and are proud of their wealth? They consider great numbers of people to be a sign of the Church,

and despise the small flock. They measure the Divinity (the Saint has in mind here the Arians,

who taught that the Son of God was less than the Father) and they weigh people. They place a

high value on grains of sand (that is, the masses) and belittle the luminaries. They gather into

their treasure-house simple stones, and disdain pearls” (St. Gregory the Theologian, Homily 33,

Against the Arians).

In the prayers of the Church are contained petitions for the ceasing of possible disagreements

among the Churches: “Cause discords to cease in the Church; quickly destroy by the might

of Thy Holy Spirit all uprisings of heresies” (Eucharistic Prayer at the Liturgy of St. Basil the

Great). “We glorify Thee . . . Thou one rule in Trinity, and beg for forgiveness of sins, peace for

the world, and concord for the Church . . . Grant peace and unity to Thy Church, O Thou Who

lovest mankind” (Sunday Canon of Nocturne, Tone 8, Canticle 9).

Its sanctity.

The Lord Jesus Christ performed the work of His earthly ministry and death on the Cross;

Christ “loved the Church... that He might present it to Himself a glorious Church, not having

spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph.

5:25-27). The Church is holy through its Head, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is holy, further, through

the presence in it of the Holy Spirit and His grace-giving gifts, communicated in the Mysteries

and other sacred rites of the Church. It is also holy through its tie with the Heavenly Church.

The very body of the Church is holy: “If the firstfruit be holy, the lump it also holy; and if

the root be holy, so are the branches” (Rom. 11:16). Those who believe in Christ are “temples of

God,” “temples of the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 3:16; 6:19). In the true Church there have always been

and there always are people of the highest spiritual purity and with special gifts of grace . martyrs,

virgins, ascetics, holy monks and nuns, hierarchs, righteous ones, blessed ones. The Church

has an uncounted choir of departed ones of all times and peoples. It has manifestations of the extraordinary

gifts of the Holy Spirit, both visible and hidden from the eyes of the world.

The Church is holy by its calling, or its purpose. It is holy also by its fruits: “Ye have your

fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life” (Rom. 6:22), as the Apostle Paul instructs us.

The Church is holy likewise through its pure, infallible teaching of faith: The Church of the

living God is, according to the word of God, “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

The Patriarchs of the Eastern Churches, concerning the infallibility of the Church in its teaching,

express themselves thus: “In saying that the teaching of the Church is infallible, we do not affirmanything else than this, that it is unchanging, that it is the same as was given to it in the beginning

as the teaching of God” (Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarch, 1848, par. 12).

The sanctity of the Church is not darkened by the intrusion of the world into the Church, or

by the sinfulness of men. Everything sinful and worldly which intrudes into the Church’s sphere

remains foreign to it and is destined to be sifted out and destroyed, like weed seeds at sowing

time. The opinion that the Church consists only of righteous and holy people without sin does not

agree with the direct teaching of Christ and His Apostles. The Saviour compares His Church with

a field on which the wheat grows together with the tares, and again, with a net which draws out

of the water both good fish and bad In the Church there are both good servants and bad ones

(Matt 18:23-35), wise virgins and foolish (Matt. 25:1-13). “We believe,” states the Encyclical of

the Eastern Patriarchs, “that the members of the Catholic Church are all the faithful, and only the

faithful, that is, those who undoubtingly confess the pure faith in the Saviour Christ (the faith

which we have received from Christ Himself, from the Apostles, and from the Holy Ecumenical

Councils), even though certain of them might have submitted to various sins . . . The Church

judges them, calls them to repentance, and leads them on the path of the saving commandments.

And therefore despite the fact that they are subject to sins, they remain and are acknowledged as

members of the Catholic Church as long as they do not become apostates and as long as they

hold to the Catholic and Orthodox Faith.”

But there is a boundary, which if sinners go past it, they, like dead members, are cut off

from the body of the Church, either by a visible act of the Church authority or by the invisible act

of God’s judgment. Thus, those do not belong to the Church who are atheists or apostates from

the Christian faith, those who are sinners characterized by a conscious stubbornness and lack of

repentance for their sins, as it says in the Catechism (ninth article). Also among those who do not

belong to the Church are heretics who have corrupted the fundamental dogmas of the faith;

schismatics who out of self-will have separated themselves from the Church (the 33rd Canon of

the Council of Laodicea forbids prayer with schismatics). St Basil the Great explains: “The ancients

distinguished between heresy, schism, and an arbitrary assembly. They called heretics

those who have completely cut themselves off and have become foreigners in the faith itself; they

called schismatics those who have separated themselves in their opinions about certain ecclesiastical

subjects and in questions which allow of treatment and healing; and they called arbitrary

assemblies those gatherings composed of disobedient priests or bishops and uninstructed people.”

The sanctity of the Church is irreconcilable with false teachings and heresies. Therefore the

Church strictly guards the purity of the truth and herself excludes heretics from her midst.

Its catholicity.

In the Greek text of the Nicaean Constantinoplitan Symbol of Faith (the Creed), the Church

is called “catholic” (in the Slavonic translation, sobornaya). What is the significance of this

Greek word?

The word catholikos in ancient Greek, pre-Christian literature is encountered very rarely.

However, the Christian Church from antiquity chose this word to signify one of the principle attributes

of the Church, namely, to express its universal character. Even though it had at its disposal

such words as cosmos (the world), or oikoumene (the inhabited earth), evidently these latter

words were insufficient to express a certain new concept which is present only to the Christian

consciousness. In the ancient Symbols of Faith, wherever the word “Church” appears, it is unfail-ingly with the definition “catholic.” Thus, in the Jerusalem Symbol of Faith we read: “And in

one, holy, catholic Church;” in the Symbol of Rome: “In the holy, catholic Church, the communion

of the Saints;” etc. In ancient Christian literature, this term is encountered several times in St.

Ignatius the God bearer, an Apostolic Father, for example when he says, “Where Jesus Christ is,

there is the catholic Church.” This term is constantly to be found in the Acts of all the Ecumenical

Councils. In the direct translation of the word, it signifies the highest degree of

all-embracingness, wholeness, fullness (being derived from cath ola, meaning “throughout the

whole”).

Side by side with this term, there was also used with the meaning of “universal,” the word

oikoumenikos. These two terms were not mixed The Ecumenical Councils received the title Oikoumenike

Synodos, from oikoumenikos, meaning from all the inhabited earth . in actual fact, the

land which belonged to Greco-Roman civilization.

The Church is catholic. This corresponds to the Apostolic words, “The fullness of Him that

filleth all in all” (Eph. 1:23). This concept indicates that the whole human race is called to salvation,

and therefore all men are intended to be members of the Church of Christ, even though not

all do belong to her in fact.

The Longer Orthodox Catechism, answering the question, “Why is the Church called catholic,

or which is the same thing, universal?” replies: “Because she is not limited to any place, nor

time, nor people, but contains true believers of all places, times and peoples” (Eastern Orthodox

Books ed., p. 50).

The Church is not limited by place. It embraces in itself all people who believe in the Orthodox

way, wherever they might live on the earth. On the other hand it is essential to have in

mind that the Church was catholic even when it was composed of a limited number of communities,

and also when, on the day of Pentecost, its bounds were not extended beyond the upper

room of Zion and Jerusalem.

The Church is not limited by time: it is foreordained to bring people to faith “unto the end of

the world.” “I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world” (Matt. 28:20). The Spirit, the

Comforter, “will abide with you forever” (John 14:16). The Mystery of the Eucharist will be performed

until the Lord comes again to earth (1 Cor. 11:26).

The Church is not bound up with any conditions of civil order which it would consider indispensable

for itself, nor with any definite language or people.

The Apostolic Church.

The Church is called “Apostolic” because the Apostles placed the historical beginning of

the Church. They spread Christianity to the ends of the earth and almost all of them sealed their

preaching with a martyr’s death The seeds of Christianity were sown in the world by their word

and watered with their blood. The unquenched flame of faith in the world they lit by the power of

their personal faith.

The Apostles preserved and transmitted to the Church the Christian teaching of faith and

life in the form in which they had received it from their Master and Lord Giving in themselves

the example of the fulfillment of the commandments of the Gospel, they handed down to the

faithful the teaching of Christ by word of mouth and in the Sacred Scriptures so that it might be

preserved, confessed, and lived.The Apostles established, according to the commandment of the Lord, the Church’s sacred

rites. They placed the beginning of the performance of the Holy Mysteries of the Body and Blood

of Christ, of baptism, and of ordination.

The Apostles established in the Church the grace-given succession of the episcopate, and

through it the succession of the whole grace-given ministry of the church hierarchy, which is

called to be stewards of the Mysteries of God, in accordance with (1 Cor. 4:1).

The Apostles established the beginning of the canonical structure of the Church’s life, being

concerned that everything should be done decently and in order; an example of this is given

in the fourteenth chapter of the First Epistle to the Corinthians, which contains directions for the

assemblies where church services are celebrated.

Everything we have said here concerns the historical aspect. But besides this there is another,

inward aspect which gives to the Church an Apostolic quality. The Apostles were not only

historically in the Church of Christ; they remain in it and are in it now. They were in the earthly

Church, and they are now in the Heavenly Church, continuing to be in communion with believers

on earth. Being the historical nucleus of the Church, they continue to be the spiritually living,

although invisible, nucleus of the Church, both now and forever, in its constant existence. The

Apostle John the Theologian writes: “…Declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship

with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:3).

These words have for us the same force as they had for the contemporaries of the Apostle: they

contain an exhortation to us to be in communion with the ranks of Apostles, for the nearness of

the Apostles to the Holy Trinity is greater than ours.

Thus, both for reasons of an historical character and for reasons of an inward character, the

Apostles are the foundations of the Church. Therefore it is said of the Church: It is “built upon

the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone”

(Eph. 2:20). The naming of the Church as “apostolic” indicates that it is established not on a single

Apostle (as the Roman Church later taught), but upon all twelve; otherwise it would have to

bear the name of Peter, or John, or some other. The Church as it were ahead of time warned us

against thinking according to a “fleshly” principle (1 Cor. 3:4): “I am of Apollos, I am of

Cephas.” In the Apocalypse, concerning the city coming down from heaven it is said: “And the

wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve Apostles of the

Lamb” (Apoc. 21:14).

The attributes of the Church indicated in the Symbol of Faith: “one, holy, catholic and apostolic,”

refer to the militant Church. However, they receive their full significance with the awareness

of the oneness of this Church with the Heavenly Church in the one Body of Christ: the

Church is one, with a unity that is both heavenly and earthly; it is holy with a heavenly-earthly

holiness; it is catholic and apostolic by its unbroken tie with the Apostles and all the saints.

The Orthodox teaching of the Church, which in itself is quite clear and rests upon Sacred

Scripture and Sacred Tradition, is to be contrasted with another concept which is widespread in

the contemporary Protestant world and has penetrated even into Orthodox circles. According to

this different concept, all the various existing Christian organizations, the so-called “confessions”

and “sects,” even though they are separated from each other, still comprise a single “invisible

Church,” inasmuch as each of them confesses Christ as Son of God and accepts His Gospel.

The dissemination of such a view is aided by the fact that side by side with the Orthodox

Church there exists outside of her a number of Christians that exceeds by several times the number

of members of the Orthodox Church. Often we can observe in this Christian world outsidethe Church a religious fervor and faith, a worthy moral life, a conviction — all the way to fanaticism

— of one’s correctness, an organization and a broad charitable activity. What is the relation

of all of them to the Church of Christ?

Of course, there is no reason to view these confessions and sects as on the same level with

non Christian religions. One cannot deny that the reading of the word of God has a beneficial influence

upon everyone who seeks in it instruction and strengthening of faith, and that devout reflection

on God the Creator, the Provider and Saviour, has an elevating power there among Protestants

also. We cannot say that their prayers are totally fruitless if they come from a pure heart,

for “in every nation he that feareth Him. . . is accepted with Him” (Acts 10:35). The Omnipresent

Good Provider God is over them, and they are not deprived of God’s mercies. They help to

restrain moral looseness, vices, and crimes; and they oppose the spread of atheism.

But all this does not give us grounds to consider them as belonging to the Church. Already

the fact that one part of this broad Christian world outside the Church, namely the whole of Protestantism,

denies the bond with the heavenly Church, that is, the veneration in prayer of the

Mother of God and the saints, and likewise prayer for the dead, indicates that they themselves

have destroyed the bond with the one Body of Christ which unites in itself the heavenly and the

earthly. Further, it is a fact that these non-Orthodox confessions have “broken” in one form or

another, directly or indirectly, with the Orthodox Church, with the Church in its historical form;

they themselves have cut the bond, they have “departed” from her. Neither we nor they have the

right to close our eyes to this fact. The teachings of the non Orthodox confessions contain heresies

which were decisively rejected and condemned by the Church at her Ecumenical Councils.

In these numerous branches of Christianity there is no unity, either outward or inward . either

with the Orthodox Church of Christ or between themselves. The supra-confessional unification

(the “ecumenical movement”) which is now to be observed does not enter into the depths of the

life of these confessions, but has an outward character. The term “invisible” can refer only to the

Heavenly Church. The Church on earth, even though it has its invisible side, like a ship a part of

which is hidden in the water and is invisible to the eyes, still remains visible, because it consists

of people and has visible forms of organization and sacred activity.

Therefore it is quite natural to affirm that these religious organizations are societies which

are “near,” or “next to,” or “close to,” or perhaps even “adjoining” the Church, but sometimes

“against” it; but they are all “outside” the one Church of Christ. Some of them have cut themselves

off, others have gone far away. Some, in going away, all the same have historical ties of

blood with her; others have lost all kinship, and in them the very spirit and foundations of Christianity

have been distorted. None of them find themselves under the activity of the grace which is

present in the Church, and especially the grace which is given in the Mysteries of the Church

They are not nourished by that mystical table which leads up along the steps of moral perfection.

The tendency in contemporary cultural society to place all confessions on one level is not

limited to Christianity; on this same all-equalling level are placed also the non Christian religions,

on the grounds that they all “lead to God,” and besides, taken all together, they far surpass

the Christian world in the number of members who belong to them.

All of such “uniting” and “equalizing” views indicate a forgetfulness of the principle that

there can be many teachings and opinions, but there is only one truth. And authentic Christian

unity — unity in the Church — can be based only upon oneness of mind, and not upon differences

of mind. The Church is “the pillar and ground of the Truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

Forgive me...
 
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,285
2,868
59
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟142,274.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
And which Apostolic denomination/church should one join, and which one has the fullness of truth?
Perhaps I should just call myself an "orthodox catholic" ehehe

I have no problem with that!
 
Upvote 0

FenderTL5

Κύριε, ἐλέησον.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2016
5,084
5,960
Nashville TN
✟634,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

I assume they are EOs, Protestants, JWs, Mormons or atheists?.........
I was raised in an "Independent Fundamental Missionary Minded 1611 KJV only Baptist Church." My grandfather was a moderator in The General Association of The Baptists.
Our/my household is the only EO in my family.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,673
.
Visit site
✟1,063,317.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry.

I just completed a series of videos about the Methodist revival, which consisted basically of,

1. A circuit rider coming to the community and organizing a revival
2. After a word spoken with unction, conviction, and power... Many flock to the altar
3. People would arise from the altar and make the building ring with their glad praise
4. The meetings take such interest that a day service is adopted as well.

Example... The Life of George Clark Rankin

Most preachers in a young Methodist movement such as this were barely educated to read and write. Some would need readers to read scripture for them. Some would only know a few sermons. But their love for God and the Holy Spirit would come shinning through.

While doing the research for these videos I would notice that all the Methodist churches would have the 1800's architecture while the Pentecostal Holiness would have the 1900's architecture. It seemed that for each movement the revival basically dissipated away. Now, most successful churches are Charismatic independent, and I am unsure that these people have a sound spiritual foundation to build upon.

When a denomination gets big enough to build their own seminaries its seems that it is downhill from there. I am a member of the Pentecostal Holiness church and have heard the strangest things from educated people. And it seems that once the seminary is established all true spirituality flees the church. And after that the denomination gets just as bad as everyone else.

I voted yes, as I have found that once a church organized into a united denomination that spiritual coldness begins to sets in. And it, to me, is very creepy!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GingerBeer

Cool and refreshing with a kick!
Mar 26, 2017
3,511
1,348
Australia
✟119,825.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
That proves not to be the fact. I've either lived in or visited almost every state in the Union, and whenever and wherever I go, Catholic, without any modifiers, means the Roman Catholic Church.
That is what I said. But Catholic Church is the name of the Catholic Church. Adding Roman is a put down invented in England because Anglicans wanted to be the "Catholic Church of England". They eventually gave up and accepted the name "Church of England" but the old enmities remained and they still stuck with "Roman Catholic" as a pejorative. Nowadays "Roman Catholic" is accepted just like "Methodist" is accepted despite the intention of its originators.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OrthodoxyUSA
Upvote 0

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Site Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I'm not squeamish about catholic but then I am a Roman Catholic so...

As others have said, there is some understandable resistance to the word due to its association with the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church's association with doctrines which these types object to.
 
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,285
2,868
59
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟142,274.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
68491723c8041ae3cf0acbe3483fb58f--saint-classic.jpg


Forgive me...
 
Upvote 0

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Site Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry.

I just completed a series of videos about the Methodist revival, which consisted basically of,

1. A circuit rider coming to the community and organizing a revival
2. After a word spoken with unction, conviction, and power... Many flock to the altar
3. People would arise from the altar and make the building ring with their glad praise
4. The meetings take such interest that a day service is adopted as well.

Example... The Life of George Clark Rankin

Most preachers in a young Methodist movement such as this were barely educated to read and write. Some would need readers to read scripture for them. Some would only know a few sermons. But their love for God and the Holy Spirit would come shinning through.

While doing the research for these videos I would notice that all the Methodist churches would have the 1800's architecture while the Pentecostal Holiness would have the 1900's architecture. It seemed that for each movement the revival basically dissipated away. Now, most successful churches are Charismatic independent, and I am unsure that these people have a sound spiritual foundation to build upon.

When a denomination gets big enough to build their own seminaries its seems that it is downhill from there. I am a member of the Pentecostal Holiness church and have heard the strangest things from educated people. And it seems that once the seminary is established all true spirituality flees the church. And after that the denomination gets just as bad as everyone else.

I voted yes, as I have found that once a church organized into a united denomination that spiritual coldness begins to sets in. And it, to me, is very creepy!
How many more threads do you intend to spam this post into? Please let me know so that I can decide whether or not it's time to add you to my ignore list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RaymondG
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,285
2,868
59
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟142,274.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry.

You've said this more than once. As for the subject, none of this is catholic. I really have a hard time following this line. A thread of it's own?

Forgive me...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,673
.
Visit site
✟1,063,317.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
How do you feel about the word itself?

garymitchell.jpg


Forgive me...

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry.

I just completed a series of videos about the Methodist revival, which consisted basically of,

1. A circuit rider coming to the community and organizing a revival
2. After a word spoken with unction, conviction, and power... Many flock to the altar
3. People would arise from the altar and make the building ring with their glad praise
4. The meetings take such interest that a day service is adopted as well.

Example... The Life of George Clark Rankin

Most preachers in a young Methodist movement such as this were barely educated to read and write. Some would need readers to read scripture for them. Some would only know a few sermons. But their love for God and the Holy Spirit would come shinning through.

While doing the research for these videos I would notice that all the Methodist churches would have the 1800's architecture while the Pentecostal Holiness would have the 1900's architecture. It seemed that for each movement the revival basically dissipated away. Now, most successful churches are Charismatic independent, and I am unsure that these people have a sound spiritual foundation to build upon.

When a denomination gets big enough to build their own seminaries its seems that it is downhill from there. I am a member of the Pentecostal Holiness church and have heard the strangest things from educated people. And it seems that once the seminary is established all true spirituality flees the church. And after that the denomination gets just as bad as everyone else.

I voted yes, as I have found that once a church organized into a united denomination that spiritual coldness begins to sets in. And it, to me, is very creepy!

While researching the videos it was amazing to find the 1800's architecture to the old Methodist churches...

Asbury_zpsvonezoia.png

WesleyMemorial.jpg


While, in the Pentecostal Holiness church, the 1900's architecture...

Merrimac_zps2a25944e.jpg


Here in the 2000's the most successful churches are Charismatic churches who rent store buildings...

BRidge.JPG
 
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟93,837.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Gentiles - no.
Jews - yes. (see Acts 21)

Jews - No. They CAN'T. Temple's down. No priesthood. If they WANT to follow Torah, God made it impossible for them to do so. And given that the only reward promised in the Torah is a farm in Israel, to actually follow the Torah now (which can't be done) is useless even for Jews: they can't get a farm in Israel by doing it, and most don't WANT to live in Israel.

The Torah cannot ever change - Jesus said that - which MEANS that it can never be UPDATED to continue to give it meaning. It is complete and unchangeable until the end of time. And utterly inert because it cannot be followed, and IF followed it doesn't grant anything of particular value anyway. If I were a Jewish farmer, I'd rather have a spread in Iowa or California than in Israel.

People add to the Torah, making it apply to salvation. But the Torah SAYS EXPLICITLY that it's for Hebrews, IN Israel (or heading there), and that all you get is a farm. There's nothing about life after death, judgment, the City of God - nothing spiritual like that. It's all keen yourself free from uncleanness, do all the rites with the right priests in the right place, and you get a farm in Israel. THat's the entirety of what God promised.

And Jesus said that not a word can ever be added to it to ever make it mean anything MORE than exactly what it says.

The Torah is useless to every human being on Earth today, Jews and Gentiles both, for any purpose other than history. It's a history book, of dead laws that cannot be revived, for to break ONE is to break them all, and they can't be followed. So it's pointless, just utterly pointless, to get caught up in it other than as an intellectual exercise.

The actual LAW of God - the moral law that will result in your salvation or damnation - is entirely contained within the Gospels and Revelation. It was entirely given out of the mouth of Jesus, and fits on about 50 pages of single-typed text. De-duped, it fits on about 10 pages. Reduced to its essence, it fits into a few sentences.

The rest is important detail about the law.

But the Torah? It's not Law for anybody anymore. Jews think it is, and think it's about salvation. But it says it isn't, and says it can't be changed, so therefore it isn't.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Jipsah
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,673
.
Visit site
✟1,063,317.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
You've said this more than once. As for the subject, none of this is catholic. I really have a hard time following this line. A thread of it's own?

Forgive me...

Why I don't like Catholic... Just read history. An organized denomination without any outside persecution can be a really bad thing.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,673
.
Visit site
✟1,063,317.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
How many more threads do you intend to spam this post into? Please let me know so that I can decide whether or not it's time to add you to my ignore list.

Why I don't like Catholic... Just read history. An organized denomination without any outside persecution can be a really bad thing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
That is what I said. But Catholic Church is the name of the Catholic Church. Adding Roman is a put down invented in England because Anglicans wanted to be the "Catholic Church of England". They eventually gave up and accepted the name "Church of England" but the old enmities remained and they still stuck with "Roman Catholic" as a pejorative. Nowadays "Roman Catholic" is accepted just like "Methodist" is accepted despite the intention of its originators.

No, you are missing my point. There are twenty-three other Catholic Churches, each in full communion with Rome, who have their own traditions, style of worship, Code of Canon Law, and for the most part, their own leader. I am Melkite Catholic, and I have a Patriarch, Youssef Absi, who lives in Antioch. He is in communion with Pope Francis.
 
Upvote 0