Are you squeamish about the word "apostolic"

[Halbhh]

I would prefer CF take down the creed. It's being misused and it forces people to lie and say they are in agreement with it to be included as Christian.

Either use it correctly, or don't use it at all.

Forgive me...

I just saw this at random, without reading in the thread elsewhere, and it's interesting. Do you mean something like this that seems how the creed works as we recite it, to me --

By saying the creed aloud with our own voices, we are confessing aloud our belief in Christ, and fully (with key elements of the gospel). This saying our belief with our own tongue helps us, and strengthens us. That is the reason to recite the creed.

Is that similar to what you are saying above?

 

[Halbhh]

I voted 'what does it mean' though I have a sort-of notion of what 'apostolic' seems to mean -- following teachings/guidance of the apostles (which definition seems to immediately make most churches of various denominations 'apostolistic') -- it's not a word I grew up using, and have only encountered it more than occasionally only here. Elsewhere it seemed to mean something like the teachings of the apostles, such as we read in the epistles, and also the Church as being guided by the apostles (especially through their careful teaching such as in the epistles).

But....I notice that looking up a quick definition results in something like this! -- "The Apostolic Church is a Christian denomination that came from the Pentecostal movement."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Below are the verses in the Creed CF uses for the word "apostolic".

I stopped reading or repeating creeds years ago.

There is a hodge podge of them according to wiki, so how does one decide which one to use or not use?

List of Christian creeds - Wikipedia

Christianity has through Church history produced a number of Christian creeds, confessions and statements of faith. The following lists are provided.

In many cases, individual churches will address further doctrinal questions in a set of bylaws.
Smaller churches see this as a formality, while churches of a larger size build this to be a large document describing the practical functioning of the church.

This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
Contents

• 1 Biblical Creeds
• 2 Ecumenical and Historic Christian Creeds
• 3 Local and Regional Creeds of the Early Church
• 4 Interdenominational Creeds
• 5 Modern Ecumenical Creeds
• 6 Creeds of Major Denominations
  • 6.1 Adventists
  • 6.2 Anabaptist/Mennonite
  • 6.3 Anglican/English
  • 6.4 Arminian
  • 6.5 Assemblies of God
  • 6.6 Baptist
  • 6.7 Christian Church - Disciples of Christ
  • 6.8 Congregational
  • 6.9 Eastern Orthodox
  • 6.10 Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
  • 6.11 Lutheran
  • 6.12 Methodist
  • 6.13 Pentecostal/Assemblies of God
  • 6.14 Presbyterian
  • 6.15 Puritan Congregational
  • 6.16 Quaker
  • 6.17 Reformed
  • 6.18 Roman Catholic
  • 6.19 United Church of Canada
  • 6.20 United Church of Christ
  • 6.21 United Methodist
• 7 Creeds of Sects or Small Denominations or Christian Groups
  • 7.1 American Fundamentalist Evangelical
  • 7.2 Amish
  • 7.3 Holy Ghost Fathers
  • 7.4 Huguenots
  • 7.5 Latter Day Saints (Mormons)
  • 7.6 Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
  • 7.7 Salvation Army
  • 7.8 Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa
  • 7.9 Waldensian Evangelical Church
• 8 See also
• 9 References

Creeds of Christianity

What is a Creed ?
The word 'Creed' is derived from the Latin word credo, meaning 'I believe'. The Creeds therefore, are summaries of belief. Particularly in the first few hundred years after the death of Christ, the church faced the problem of differing views over such subjects as whether he was truly God and also whether he had both a human or divine nature.
Out of these disputes the church formulated statements of belief, which to this day form an important part of how Christians express their faith. We now look at three important creeds that give a summary of Christian belief.

The Apostles Creed
This creed is probably the earliest of the main creeds used in Christianity today. The name derives from the legend that the twelve apostles of Christ contributed to it, though the earliest form dates from c.215. The creed gives a clear summary of Christian belief and formed the basis for later creeds.

The Nicene Creed
The Nicene Creed is the most common creed used in Christianity. Later revised at the council of Constantinople in 381, the creed was originally formulated in 325 at the council of Nicea. At the time the church was struggling with the Arian heresy, which denied that Christ was truly God, but rather that he was a created being. The creed was formulated to repudiate Arianism and clearly states that Christ is eternal and part of the trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

In all branches of Christianity, the creed is widely used today. For example, at each Roman Catholic Mass, it is used as a profession of faith.

The Chalcedonian Creed
This creed was formulated at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. The council met to resolve the issue of the 'natures' in Christ. The creed states that whilst Christ had two natures (one human, the other divine), they were distinct and Christ was truly one person.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I just saw this at random, without reading in the thread elsewhere, and it's interesting. Do you mean something like this that seems how the creed works as we recite it, to me --

By saying the creed aloud with our own voices, we are confessing aloud our belief in Christ, and fully (with key elements of the gospel). This saying our belief with our own tongue helps us, and strengthens us. That is the reason to recite the creed.

Is that similar to what you are saying above?

There are many here who do not believe in the catholicity of The Church, and have changed definitions of Apostolic. Further there are those here who do not believe in water baptism. Some dont believe in the Trinity. And so many lie about believeing the creed just to sign in as Christians. CF supports the changing of these definitions.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I can't be squeamish about a term that means nothing to me.

RaymondG said: ↑
Yes! When we feeling the need to identify ourselves or others with at title other than follower of Christ...there are, most times, hidden motives... I find it breeds division.

The fewer qualifiers we use to identify ourselves, the less division we have.
We could just call ourselves human and include unbelievers, too, but we all have a choice to make as to where a distinction needs to be made.
Not all followers of Christ are really followers of Christ.

Interesting.
Reminds me of these verses:

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What do I have to do with Thee, Jesus,
Thou Son of the Most High God?
I beg Thee, don't torment me!"
29 For Jesus had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.

James 2:19
thou -- thou dost believest that God is one;
thou dost well, even the demons believe and they shudder!

Acts 19:
13 Now there were some itinerant Jewish exorcists who tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits.
They would say, “I bind you by Jesus, whom Paul proclaims.”
14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 Eventually, one of the evil spirits answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but you, who are you?!!”
16 Then the man with the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all.
The attack was so violent that they ran out of the house, naked and wounded.


...........

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Interesting.
Reminds me of these verses:

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, "What do I have to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I beg you, don't torment me!"
29 For Jesus had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.

James 2:19
thou -- thou dost believe that God is one;
thou dost well, even the demons believe and they shudder!

Acts 19:
13 Now there were some itinerant Jewish exorcists who tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits. They would say, “I bind you by Jesus, whom Paul proclaims.”
14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 Eventually, one of the evil spirits answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but you, who are you?”
16 Then the man with the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. The attack was so violent that they ran out of the house, naked and wounded.

is that cooking utensils?

Forgive me...

 

[GingerBeer]

When I come across a building labelled "The Church of God - Apostolic" or something similar I know I need to avoid it and avoid their evangelists if I can. But when I see the creed say "one holy, catholic, and apostolic church" I know it is likely safe and sound and they probably will not be out on the street accosting people

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I can't be squeamish about a term that means nothing to me....The fewer qualifiers we use to identify ourselves, the less division we have. We could just call ourselves human and include unbelievers, too, but we all have a choice to make as to where a distinction needs to be made. Not all followers of Christ are really followers of Christ.

Exactly, those who call on the Name of Jesus has biblical substance for division between believers and unbelievers.

Acts of the Apostles 4:12

Philippians 2:9-11

John 14:13

John 14:6

Luke 10:17

Acts of the Apostles 4:30

Romans 10:13

Matthew 1:21

1 Corinthians 6:11

Acts of the Apostles 2:38

Mark 16:17

Acts of the Apostles 3:12-16

Jeremiah 10:6

John 16:26

Acts of the Apostles 8:12

Isaiah 9:6

 

[aiki]

Am I squeamish about the word "apostolic"? Not as it applies to the only true apostles about whom we read in the New Testament. Those claiming the office of apostle today are not apostles at all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting.
Reminds me of these verses:


...........

is that cooking utensils?

Forgive me...

Probably what those Jewish exorcists tried to use
However, Paul didn't need those:

Acts 19:11,12
And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick,
and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.

 

[Hieronymus]

Apostolic, Evangelic, Catholic, have all become tainted terms..
I voted yes because of that.

 

[Halbhh]

There are many here who do not believe in the catholicity of The Church, and have changed definitions of Apostolic. Further there are those here who do not believe in water baptism. Some dont believe in the Trinity. And so many lie about believeing the creed just to sign in as Christians. CF supports the changing of these definitions.

Forgive me...

What does it take to be "Christian" -- we most all would agree that first it is that we believe in Christ, the Son of God, risen (and thus soon one will learn also of the coming Life everlasting), and while next I would say from that belief, from that faith, we will then seek to know and follow what He said to us (which would entail many things such as baptism and communion for instance), others might emphasize another thing next over that listening and following, and I only need help fill in gaps in the knowledge of the gospel (the Teaching from Christ), and generally can presume that most are happy to learn things they haven't heard from Him, and even that the humble will be happy to hear things they already know (and it is good for me to speak so long as I remain humble/loving). Christ as the Teacher, and us as the listeners, the hearers, the followers.

A Creed like the Apostles' or Nicene does have the very valuable professing faith in Christ out loud with one's own voice, which can aid some that have not already professed their faith out loud anytime recently.

But the Apostles' Creed can help us correctly recognize our brothers and sisters in Christ as being present in a very wide range of other denominations of churches, regardless of any gaps in knowledge! Catholic as universal, as specifically meaning not to circle the wagons against others from another denomination even. (only rarely is a difference crucial like some group denying Christ's being literally the Son of God; very more often differences are only about a chance for us to share and learn more, and we all can learn more; even if a person is at some moment caught in an argumentative spirit (wishing to contend in order to personally win over others), we can often aid them with prayer and love and kindness)

The Apostles' Creed could aid us to correctly see our brothers and sisters in a church different from what we are used to, and rightly embrace/accept/love/welcome them as our brothers and sisters in Christ. The Church is catholic -- it is diverse.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

What does it take to be "Christian" -- we most all would agree that first it is that we believe in Christ risen and thus also in the coming Life everlasting, and while next I would say from that belief, from that faith, we will then seek to know and follow what He said to us (which would entail many things such as baptism and communion for instance), others might emphasize another thing next over that listening and following, and I only need help fill in gaps in the knowledge of the gospel (the Teaching from Christ), and generally can presume that most are happy to learn things they haven't heard from Him. Christ as the Teacher, and us as the listeners, the hearers, the followers.

A Creed like the Apostles' or Nicene does have the very valuable professing faith in Christ out loud with one's own voice, which can aid some that have not already professed their faith out loud anytime recently.

But the Apostles' Creed can help us correctly recognize our brothers and sisters in Christ as being present in a very wide range of other denominations of churches, regardless of any gaps in knowledge!

The Apostles' Creed could aid us to correctly see our brothers and sisters in a church different from what we are used to, and rightly embrace/accept/love/welcome them as our brothers and sisters in Christ. The Church is catholic -- it is diverse.

Technically, people were called Christians after only professing that they believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. (St. Peters statement)
They were baptised the next day and then training began.
The bar for being Christian, albeit not yet membered into The Church was pretty low.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes! When we feeling the need to identify ourselves or others with at title other than follower of Christ...there are, most times, hidden motives... I find it breeds division.

Thats interesting. It's supposed to be a flag to rally around.

Forgive me...

I would think Jesus is the flag we rally around.....

Isa 11:10
At that time a root from Jesse will stand like a signal flag for the nations.
Nations/Gentiles will look to Him for guidance, and his residence will be majestic.

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them,
and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army. [Revelation]
11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam! these bones are the whole house of Israel...........

Luke 2:34 And Simon blesses them and said His mother toward Mariam, "Behold! this-one is set/lying for the falling and resurrection/ana-stasin <386> of many in Israel,
and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones"/Revelation 11:11]

Reve 11:11
And after the three days and half a spirit/breath of life out of the God into-came in them, and they stand/esthsan <2476> (5627) upon their feet,
and great fear falls upon those seeing them. [Ezekiel 37:11]

Eze 37:3
He said to me, "Son of Adam! can these bones live?"
I said to him, "Sovereign Lord, Thou knowest."

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I would think Jesus is the flag we rally around.....

Isa 11:10
At that time a root from Jesse will stand like a signal flag for the nations.
Nations/Gentiles will look to Him for guidance, and his residence will be majestic.

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them,
and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army. [Revelation]
11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam! these bones are the whole house of Israel...........

Luke 2:34 And Simon blesses them and said His mother toward Mariam, "Behold! this-one is set/lying for the falling and resurrection/ana-stasin <386> of many in Israel,
and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones"/Revelation 11:11]

Reve 11:11
And after the three days and half a spirit/breath of life out of the God into-came in them, and they stand/esthsan <2476> (5627) upon their feet,
and great fear falls upon those seeing them. [Ezekiel 37:11]

Eze 37:3
He said to me, "Son of Adam! can these bones live?"
I said to him, "Sovereign Lord, Thou knowest."

Well, it is HIS flag. HIS creation.

Forgive me...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Things done in the name of Jesus as opposed to that of man, iow many wars are fought in the name of God, but none fight in the name of Jesus.

 

[Philip_B]

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

As such the word apostolic is one of the notes of the Church.

On the one hand this points us to the Church built on the foundation of the Apostles, and so many of our traditions would argue that our connection with the historic episcopate, the holy tradition connecting us right back to the apostles, and indeed to Christ himself.

The greek word apostolos meaning one who is sent with a message, points us to the Church being sent into the world with the message of the Gospel (our liberation from sin and death), means that it is not simply a note of the Church, but strikes to the very core of our mission statement.

I am not in the least squeamish about the word apostolic.

 

[W2L]

Apostolic, Evangelic, Catholic, have all become tainted terms..
I voted yes because of that.

I agree.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I would think Jesus is the flag we rally around.....

Isa 11:10
At that time a root from Jesse will stand like a signal flag for the nations.
Nations/Gentiles will look to Him for guidance, and his residence will be majestic.

Well, it is HIS flag. HIS creation.

Forgive me...

Can't argue wit dat!

Gen 2:3
So Elohim blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all His work that He had done in creation.

Mar 10:6
But from the beginning of the creation, male and female made He them.

Col 1:23
if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard,
which was preached in all creation under heaven;
whereof I Paul was made a minister.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

Rev 3:14
And to the Messenge of the church in Laodicea, write!
These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

The seventh and final church is the church in Laodicea.
It is the most deplorable of the seven, representing the very worst spiritual condition a church can come to. Therefore, it also presents the greatest challenges to the overcoming elect, for the spiritual conditions within the churches are the very things we are called upon to overcome! The promise to the overcomer in this church is the greatest of all the promises! Therefore Laodicea represents both the lowest and the highest realms of experience in the Lord’s people. Both of these are in manifestation in the earth today!

It is interesting to note that the name Laodicea is composed of lao and dika, meaning “the people’s judgment” or “consensus of opinion as to what is right!” Other variations of rendering are: “power of the laity,” “the voice of the people,” “the people’s rights,” or “justice of the peoples.” Its name designates it as the democratic church, in which everything is swayed and decided by popular opinion, clamor, and voting, either within the church, or by adapting to the opinions, standards, and pressures of society without.
Hence, Laodicea is a carnal, compromising, pusillanimous, self-righteous, and self-sufficient church!

The typical church in Laodicea was filled with carnal believers, just as the church systems today in the LAODICEAN CONDITION are also filled with carnal believers. Some people have trouble putting these two terms together — carnal and believer. How can a believer in Christ be carnal? .................

 

[W2L]

.

I agree. No denomination is flawless. We must realize that our understanding of religion is flawed.