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Are you going to hell if you're not Catholic?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Audio Prophecy, Jan 12, 2002.

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  1. Audio Prophecy

    Audio Prophecy Guest

    +0
    Ok, I know that Catholics think that their church is the one true church, but where is it written that if you're not Cathlic, you're basically not going to heaven? Is this an "official" belief, or something a minority of Catholics impose on others.

    Just wondering, as I am Catholic and do not believe in this ridiculous disposition.
     
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  2. Kirkland1244

    Kirkland1244 Regular Member

    195
    +3
    Anglican
    That is not Catholic teaching at all. The Church DOES NOT teach that membership is required for salvation.

    Kirk
     
  3. MikeM

    MikeM New Member

    20
    +1
    Hi Audio Prophecy,



    Yes and no.

    It is an official teaching that "Outside the Church there is no salvation". But you also have to understand it in the sense it was written in. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains:
    ___________________________________________________
    "Outside the Church there is no salvation"

    846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

    Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation; the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, whould refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

    847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

    Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation

    848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
    ___________________________________________________

    In other words, objectively speaking, it is a grave sin to not be Catholic. Makes sense, doesn't it? Since the Catholic Church does claim to be true Church founded by Christ, then rejecting the Catholic Church is the same as rejecting Christ (cf. Lk 10:16).

    But, as with any mortal sin, damning a person to hell if they die unrepentant, three conditions are necessary for it to be mortal:

    "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent". (cf. CCC # 1857)

    For all non-Catholics, obviously the first condition of grave matter is met. But what about it being "committed with full knowledge"? How many non-Catholics actually know that they are rejecting the church started by Christ? Not many. For those who do, then, of course, they would be committing mortal sin. But most don't and its not their fault. They believe that they are rejecting a church, which, even if they grant Catholics to be Christians (as many do thankfully), they still feel it contains some false teachings, and is not the true Church. That means they wouldn't be excluded from heaven on that basis alone. (Of course, they might be excluded from heaven on committing another mortal sin and dying unrepentant, just as a Catholic would. But not merely for being non-Catholic.).

    Anyway, I believe that there are plenty of non-Catholics in heaven.




    Well, I hope that my answer helps a little :)
     
  4. IrishJohan

    IrishJohan Well-Known Member

    +48
    Catholic
    Single
    Yep, on the South-bound express train with no stops...

    Ok, ok seriously. MikeM gave a good answer. To this I would add that the East's response seems appropriate as well. It goes something along the lines of "we know where the Church is, but do not know where it ends". The Spirit will blow where He wills and imparts grace as He sees fit.

    Pax Christi,
    John
     
  5. monapoli13

    monapoli13 New Member

    24
    +0
    Catholic
    I think the outside the Church No Salvation can seem pretty inhuman and judgmental in American Culture. But I think reading it as the Catechism does is a good way to go about it. We hold that the Universal Church is the People of God. We hold the Roman Pontiff to be the sucessor of Peter. So I mean I would try to look at it in a positive view. Jesus came to save people from hell, not to send them there. God gave us choice. Jesus came to save and save He does. He gave us the Church for that very purpose. I would sincerely suggest studying the theology of the Church for this.
    In giving us the Church it was gift to bring us close to eternal joy and peace and love.
     
  6. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

    +816
    Catholic
    Private

    Good because neither do we.

    We believe judgement is left to God. Evil people who reject God and his loving mercy go to hell because they don't want to go to heaven, not because they aren't Catholic.
     
  7. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower Well-Known Member

    +1,439
    Catholic
    IrishJohan

    you did it again! LOL :D

    These old threads are interesting, no? ;)


    Just ribbing you brother!


    Peace in Him!
     
  8. Cathologetics

    Cathologetics Peacemaker

    310
    +16
    Catholic
    All what he said! Yeah! That was good! I would have said the same thing, of course, but.... Dang, what time is confession on sat?
     
  9. IrishJohan

    IrishJohan Well-Known Member

    +48
    Catholic
    Single
    Yep, that would be moi. :blush:

    Pax Christi,
    John
     
  10. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    +617
    Methodist
    Single
    Truth be told....I like it when people bump up old posts in the general forums. Brings back memories of things for me. :)

    So thank you IrishJohan! God Bless you!
     
  11. Les Grands Pieds

    Les Grands Pieds Regular Member

    373
    +15
    Non-Denom
    Single
    The Bible says that if you believe Jesus is the son of God, you will go to heaven. It's that simple! It has nothing to do with your denomination! Even a Catholic can go to hell!
     
  12. FullyMT

    FullyMT Veni Sancte Spiritus

    +286
    Catholic
    Single
    I don't think anybody said anywhere that Catholics couldn't go to hell....
     
  13. JeffreyLloyd

    JeffreyLloyd Ave Maria, Gratia plena! Supporter

    +1,040
    Catholic
    Married
    :)
     
  14. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

    +816
    Catholic
    Private
    Are you sure that is all that there is to it? The bible does not say 'all' you have to do is 'believe' and you will go to heaven, no matter what.
     
  15. Cathologetics

    Cathologetics Peacemaker

    310
    +16
    Catholic
    Wow. Really!? What have I been wasting my life over then!? I believe Jesus is the Son of God! Now I can go sleep around with anyone (male, female, unsure), go beat the heck out of people that irritate me, never give another dime or second to charitable causes, support abortion (heck, why not open up a back-door shop myself!), curse out everyone, run my key along the whole side of the corvette that my undeserving neighbor bought, there's even a person or two I would love to just KILL.... Whew. I'm so excited that I may even need to go be alone for a few minutes now. I feel so FREE!!!!!

    Thanks for making my life so much easier.
     
  16. monapoli13

    monapoli13 New Member

    24
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    Catholic
    There are alot of people who still use the translation where Martin Luther added the word alone in Romans saying that we are saved by faith alone..

    I always thought it was grace and stuff... Idk :wave:
     
  17. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina Well-Known Member

    +12,119
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I hope we don't scare Les Grands Pieds away with the idea that Catholics and Orthodox believe that we can sin freely and still get to heaven -- after all, that was Martin Luther's idea and the Council of Trent condemned him for that.

    Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe in the Seven Sacraments - which includes Holy Confession. We believe that we are sinners in need of salvation by the grace of God. However, God who saved us without us, will not save us without us. Those who simply say, "Lord, Lord" will not enter heaven. Only those who do the will of God will be saved. And Christ specified what works He wanted us to do: Blessed are those who feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned. ... For when you do these things to the least of the brethren, you do it unto Christ.

    We are to live godly lives with faith and love. We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Our baptismal garment is to be kept free of sin -- can anyone on earth say that he has not soiled his baptismal garment. Ultimately we are saved through the grace of God, but only if we accept that grace and grow in holiness.

    Hope this helps, Les Grands Pieds!

    Yours truly in Christ our God,
    Elizabeth
     
  18. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

    +816
    Catholic
    Private
    I always thought it wasn’t any of that, faith, grace, or works, but the blood of Jesus Christ that saves any of us.
     
  19. Cathologetics

    Cathologetics Peacemaker

    310
    +16
    Catholic
    Sorry Elizabeth. I let my sarcasm get away from me. I tend to do that more often than I should. But that was just calling to me... BE SARCASTIC JT, BE SARCASTIC. I probably should have avoided the temptation, but I didn't. I mean it was just SO....

    Deep breath. :cool:

    Amen to what you said!
     
  20. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina Well-Known Member

    +12,119
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I knew that you were being sarcastic. And you got your point across. Martin Luther said that he could rape something like 40 women and still be saved. Yet he didn't even mention repentance.

    So much for faith alone saves!
     
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