Are you for or against the death penalty?

[Raphael Jauregui]

God instituted the death penalty for certain crimes. One must then either accept it as just, or accuse God of being unjust.

The people who claimed that God instituted it were unjust. Like humans today, they could err.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If even one innocent life is lost and deprived of his/her rights by wrongly being convicted, then, we should not have the death penalty.

More than a few lives have been lost because the death penalty was not instituted. By that reasoning, we never should have stopped doing it. Even with life sentences, some of them have still managed to murder after being convicted.

No study has ever shown that executions deter violent crime.

The criminals must be doing diligent duty and stepping up to the plate to replace all of the ones that were lost, right? Good little Johnny decided to become a killer to replace the serial killer executed last Tuesday? The fact is that dead murderers have an uncanny knack of ceasing their crime with zero percent recidivism. It's the most successful form of punishment ever used.

By the way, no study has ever shown that bathing in skunk oil deters human reproduction, either. It's a disingenuous argument to counter a bad one, and I'll probably hate myself in the morning for even suggesting it.

Well, again God is perfect we are NOT you cannot bring people back.

You can't bring back the years of a person's life wasted in prison, either. You can't bring back any punishment. It's a matter only of degree. Either you're going to have to punish no criminal, or you're going to have to admit that you're risking a mistake that, to some degree, cannot be undone. If you punish no one, then you punish the victim.

It is interesting to hear about other developed nations and how they have already abolished the death penalty.

I don't equate economic or technological development with virtue. That was the mistake of German Kultur, just prior to them showing the world the vast difference between being good and being "developed," by way of a World War. Having failed at that, they tried again, in case we missed it the first time. Don't show me a developed nation that has abolished it. If you show me a good nation that has abolished it, then I might listen. If you can show me a repeating pattern, then I might take you seriously.

Incidentally, the scriptural case for capital punishment outweighs the case against it, by far. The argument that we don't live by the Old Testament is, in itself, not supported by the New Testament, except in the case of dietary laws. The strongest New Testament argument against capital punishment comes from the Pericope Adulterae (John 8:1-11), which, unfortunately, was most definitely not originally in that part of the Bible. Someone added it in at a later date, and no one knows where it really came from. The most favorable defense of it is that, however it got there, it came by God's design.

Everyone dies. It's only a question of when, why and how. The execution of a heinous criminal has less to do with the evil of the criminal than it does with the righteousness of the society. If a society believes that a man who takes another's life has any right to his own, then it would seem that the society has condemned itself.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

More than a few lives have been lost because the death penalty was not instituted. By that reasoning, we never should have stopped doing it. Even with life sentences, some of them have still managed to murder after being convicted.



The criminals must be doing diligent duty and stepping up to the plate to replace all of the ones that were lost, right? Good little Johnny decided to become a killer to replace the serial killer executed last Tuesday? The fact is that dead murderers have an uncanny knack of ceasing their crime with zero percent recidivism. It's the most successful form of punishment ever used.

By the way, no study has ever shown that bathing in skunk oil deters human reproduction, either. It's a disingenuous argument to counter a bad one, and I'll probably hate myself in the morning for even suggesting it.



You can't bring back the years of a person's life wasted in prison, either. You can't bring back any punishment. It's a matter only of degree. Either you're going to have to punish no criminal, or you're going to have to admit that you're risking a mistake that, to some degree, cannot be undone. If you punish no one, then you punish the victim.



I don't equate economic or technological development with virtue. That was the mistake of German Kultur, just prior to them showing the world the vast difference between being good and being "developed," by way of a World War. Having failed at that, they tried again, in case we missed it the first time. Don't show me a developed nation that has abolished it. If you show me a good nation that has abolished it, then I might listen. If you can show me a repeating pattern, then I might take you seriously.

Incidentally, the scriptural case for capital punishment outweighs the case against it, by far. The argument that we don't live by the Old Testament is, in itself, not supported by the New Testament, except in the case of dietary laws. The strongest New Testament argument against capital punishment comes from the Pericope Adulterae (John 8:1-11), which, unfortunately, was most definitely not originally in that part of the Bible. Someone added it in at a later date, and no one knows where it really came from. The most favorable defense of it is that, however it got there, it came by God's design.

Everyone dies. It's only a question of when, why and how. The execution of a heinous criminal has less to do with the evil of the criminal than it does with the righteousness of the society. If a society believes that a man who takes another's life has any right to his own, then it would seem that the society has condemned itself.

Life in prison means that someone convicted cannot leave prison. And, that first comment does not make much sense logically. How were lives lost because the death penalty was not used? The death penalty is a punishment for a murder committed; it is not a preventative action.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

This is a very complex subject to give a simple answer to.

For starters based on "sin" issues, its not a sin to be for it. So given that I am for it. It punishes criminals, bad criminals. However sometimes innocent people to die who were wrongly accused. So I am against it. BUT... if I follow that logic then technically I could say innocent people also die in car crashes, so we shouldn't allow people to drive.

Then I could go back yet again and say death for some is to easy of a sentence to give. I say let them rot in prision for the rest of their lives. And if we are lucky another con will take them out and save the state money. BTW I am not "hoping" for anyone to die, but in prison there is a system, and people such as pedophiles for example tend to get killed.

But then we get into yet another problem. If we let them live there forever, it costs taxpayers money. We feed them, shelter them, medically help them...etc. Giving them the death penalty means they save people money. But then again I am then saying people deserve death, and really if you think about it, who cares if they live in a prison forever or get the death penalty because in the end the one and only Judge will gave them a fate far worse then anything they had on earth.

Lastly I would say if we keep them alive MAYBE we can rehabilitate them. Though currently like 90% can't be fixed since our prison system (in america) just sets them up to fail through long sentences, long "solitary confinement"...etc. It just makes them worse. In other countries the sentences are shorter and the people released have WAY better chances to change back to a normal person that can be trusted in society. And this also means maybe they will come to salvation and change even more! I know for many that may seem like a "small probability" thing but one extra saved person is one more than heaven had before right?

So as you can see, for me there is now answer I can really choose because its a hard subject.

 

[dqhall]

The people who claimed that God instituted it were unjust. Like humans today, they could err.

When a man faces execution for a mass murder, I do not raise my voice to protest the death penalty. The man was not acting in self defense and had no right to impose the death penalty on his victims.

I do not believe God wants the law of Moses enforced in cases of Sabbath (Shabaht) violation. An Old Testament report stated a man was stoned to death for picking up sticks on Saturday/Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Some Jews accused Jesus of Sabbath violation and wanted him executed (Mark 2:23-24, John 5:18).

The law required an adulterer should be stoned. There is no record of Jesus stoning anyone. In John 8, Jesus pardoned an adulteress caught in the act of adultery and warned her to stop sinning.

The average annual cost of keeping a Federal prisoner in prison during 2015 was $31,977.65.

In New York City during 2013 the cost to keep a prisoner in prison for a year was almost $168,000:
City’s Annual Cost Per Inmate Is $168,000, Study Finds

Matthew 7:1-3 (WEB)
7 “Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye?

 

[Radrook]

GOD is GOOD
it is we who are evil. JESUS made it plain. we are all sinners
so even when one deserves death , we aint the JUDGE only GOD IS
we forgive , as we have been forgiven. IT is just . ITS just not just for us who have sinned
to execute the sentence that only the real JUDGE can. All that the law
said is JUST. its JUST that man and all humakind has sinned.
And if the JUST GOD by grace saved us , reconciled us while we too deserved death
How or what gives us who have broke Gods law and DO deserve death , the right
to Act out the LAW against any who has. NOPE. we just preach the life saving
life giving GOSPLE> and forgive as we too were forgiven JESUS sake .
LET that sink in real deep .

Was God being wicked in assigning humans to execute the death sentence or not?

 

[Karl.C]

I am not sure what you are asking, since there is a great difference between what a Christian is commanded to do, and what the Governments of this world must do.

Christians shouldn't be violent at all, according to Jesus (Matt 5).

The primary purpose for any Government to exist is, to protect the citizens ... in fact, God keeps them in power specifically for this purpose (Rom 13:1-7) .
Sometimes deadly force is necessary in that role.
Any person who demonstrates they are, and will be, a grave danger to innocent people around them, must be removed as a threat. And, they are authorized to do that in the least costly method, as stewards of public resources.

Also, the Government has the authority to make punishment a deterrent to crime. I am completely convinced, a person who has been executed will NOT repeat their offence. There is no greater deterrent than that.

And, I am completely convinced the Bible is correct;
Eccl 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
The current trend toward keeping the murderers in prison, 3 meals a day, room and board ... is NOT a speedy sentence.

I realize, the last few years have seen an increase in desperate men, committing hideous crimes, including as part of their plan "suicide by cop", and THAT kind of person is not only unaffected by the threat of death .... they are counting on it. But, if they could have been shot the instant they pulled THEIR gun out, think of the innocent lives saved!
Again, this is from the perspective of the GOVERNMENT'S responsibility/purpose ... not the Christian's.

I note you advocate "the death penalty" is a deterrent to excessive criminal behaviour. Obviously you have never encountered someone spaced out on ice, or inspired to agression via misuse of steriods...

As your reference to "suicide by cop" demonstrates, criminals fear internment more than death...internment is proved to be the greater deterrent...

Of course it would be beneficial to society to have crims serve a realistic sentence for its full term...

As a matter of economy, I think Mohammad came up with a sensible solution = blind them, thus making them of little threat. I'd add, confiscation of all assets of an immedtiate family (husband, wife & dependents) and from a Darwinian viewpoint, emasculation for males and sterialisation (tube tying) for females. Cheap solutions with no ongoing cost to society, justice for the victims & their families, and with daily visibility of the crim and the penalty he/she endures, a deterrent...

As for Moses' ordinance that promoted genocide and institionalised murder see Exodus 18 and note the pagan priest's instruction to Moses. Moses instituted Canaanite/Midianite law (slightly dressed up) not YHWH's law. Moses had smashed YHWH's law into pieces. The Rabbi say Moses did so because Hasham's law (YHWH's law) was too lenient & the Israelites needed to be punished.

YHWH's law is given at Genesis 9:6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man".

Texan's etc should read Ezekiel 18:25 "Yet ye say, The way of the [YWWH] is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?"

 

[Quasiblogo]

The argument is too neatly packaged. There's nothing in the NT that remotely hints that Christians have a right to criticize capitol punishment when just. Yet, as a means for showing the worlds how compassion works, I am all for influencing the legislative process for taking it off the books. To be salt does not always mean finding people, things and processes to criticize and lash it at.

 

[Karl.C]

The argument is too neatly packaged. There's nothing in the NT that remotely hints that Christians have a right to criticize capitol punishment when just. Yet, as a means for showing the worlds how compassion works, I am all for influencing the legislative process for taking it off the books. To be salt does not always mean finding people, things and processes to criticize and lash it at.

The first Council of Jerusalem (See Acts) obligates Christians to the Noahic law which states...

""Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man". (Genesis 9:6)

Also note YHWH's sentencing of Cain after he murdered Abel. (Genesis 4:10-12) Cain's appraisal "My punishment is greater than I can bear". No man was permitted to take Cain's life (Genesis 4:14-15)...

I know Texan's and like think they are exceptional but it seems they also think they are greater & wiser than God (?)

 

[Karl.C]

oops!

 

[dqhall]

Was God being wicked in assigning humans to execute the death sentence or not?

Was it God, or someone's imagined God?

 

[SkyWriting]

usually such measures are reserved for rather heinous criminals such a serial killers or serial rapists.

I would not be against it as the government has precedent(genesis 9:6) and authority(romans 13:1-5) to do so.

So it is up to us to decide?

 

[mindlight]

On this issue, I agree with Pope Francis who leads the Catholic Church. Too many innocent people have been killed after being wrongly convicted and wrongly sentenced to the death penalty. On top of that, society does not have the right to take life to show that taking life is wrong. It is, to me, oxymoronic.

“Indeed, nowadays the death penalty is unacceptable, however grave the crime of the convicted person,” - Pope Francis
Pope Francis calls for world 'free of the death penalty'

Have to disagree with the pope on biblical grounds here. Also most popes have advocated the death penalty so not sure this can be interpreted as an ex cathedra announcement even for Catholics.

Practically this comes down to your view of justice. If justice is merely for rehabilitation or communal protection then prison is a legitimate alternative. If it serves as a deterrent and or is defined in retributive terms then the death penalty is required.

Looking at the character and actions of God I would say that justice is sometimes retributive. People who will not bow to Him get destroyed or sent to hell. That is as clear in the NT(e.g. Revelation) as in the OT. It is eternal life that is the main consideration of Christians not the preservation of earthly life. We are told in scripture that we will judge angels - some of those angels go to hell - so a far worse penalty than the death penalty. Clearly the authorities have been given the power of the sword for the common good and this has been uncontroversial for most of Christian history. The early martyrs submitted to unjust sentences rather than seeking to overthrow the right of the authorities to execute per see.

It seems to me that the biggest issue with the popes position is the implication that human beings cannot make just life and death decisions. That is a diminishment of the dignity we have been given and is simply not true. There are justice systems in which it is clear that the death penalty will mostly be misused e.g. Stalinist USSR. However there are great many systems where usually the verdict fits the crime.

 

[SkyWriting]

Was it God, or someone's imagined God?

It's difficult to discern the motivations of others.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

So it is up to us to decide?

such decisions are exclusive to the God appointed civil magistrate.

 

[SkyWriting]

Very true my friend , so true amen. But the question asked was Do you SUPPORT it.
IF a VOTE were to come and we could vote for it. I WOULD say NO.
the jews thought they had no sin. For they only had JESUS brought before
the one who was given power to execute that sentence.
BUT JESUS said , The one who handed me over has the greater SIN.
SINCE I myself would not kill a man. WHY would I support the system that could.
LET men run the world as men run the world . LET Us follow CHRIST .

So those deserving of the death sentence must be restricted in their movement and freedoms
for the rest of their natural life with what amenities? And they must be protected from other
inmates who could also possibly be violent as well?

Could we consider just one island with a circular wall then?

 

[SkyWriting]

such decisions are exclusive to the God appointed civil magistrate.

So God does handle all of that? I'm not objecting, I've just not heard that, often.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

So God does handle all of that? I'm not objecting, I've just not heard that, often.

the LORD placed the sword of justice in the hand of the kings and governors of the land. the hope is that they use this privilege righteously, but us being sinners, it will never be perfect.

 

[SkyWriting]

the LORD placed the sword of justice in the hand of the kings and governors of the land. the hope is that they use this privilege righteously, but us being sinners, it will never be perfect.

I guess I did see that movie...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No study has ever shown that executions deter violent crime.

And, no study has ever shown that it doesn't. Tie game.

No criminal has ever committed another crime after being executed.