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Featured Are you for or against the death penalty?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Raphael Jauregui, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Support

    26 vote(s)
    41.9%
  2. Oppose

    29 vote(s)
    46.8%
  3. Undecided

    7 vote(s)
    11.3%
  1. Raphael Jauregui

    Raphael Jauregui Episcopalian, liberal Anglican, Mdiv

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    On this issue, I agree with Pope Francis who leads the Catholic Church. Too many innocent people have been killed after being wrongly convicted and wrongly sentenced to the death penalty. On top of that, society does not have the right to take life to show that taking life is wrong. It is, to me, oxymoronic.

    “Indeed, nowadays the death penalty is unacceptable, however grave the crime of the convicted person,” - Pope Francis
    Pope Francis calls for world 'free of the death penalty'
     
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  2. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I oppose it for several reasons.
     
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  3. Shoetoyou

    Shoetoyou Humbled Pilgrim Supporter

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    To quote Tolkien, "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends."

    I would leave such judgments and penalties to God.
     
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  4. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Opposition to the death penalty on moral grounds accuses God of being unjust when he instituted it.

    So how does one reconcile that with being a Christian who tells others that there is no injustice with God? Or as Jesus says, that God is good?

     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  5. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    Scriptures state rulers of the lands were placed to punish evil doers... 1 Peter 2:13-14

    I see no reason why scripture says the death penalty is bad. There are consequences in this life for decisions we make.
     
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  6. Raphael Jauregui

    Raphael Jauregui Episcopalian, liberal Anglican, Mdiv

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    Well 1) we do not follow all of the laws of the OT. 2) God is just, but we are not always just and we are not omniscient. If even one innocent life is lost and deprived of his/her rights by wrongly being convicted, then, we should not have the death penalty. That is my view.
     
  7. RC1970

    RC1970 post tenebras lux

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    “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in His own image." ~ Genesis 9:6
     
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  8. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed that we should be under Mosaic Law. However, the Law given Noah was not part of the Mosaic Law. So assuming that the Noachian Law for capital punishment was abolished along with the Mosaic Law does not necessarily follow..

    Also, please note that you are totally ignoring the issue of my objection. If indeed man's execution of the death sentence is evil, than how do you as a Christian explain to a non-believer that God was being just when he instituted it?

    Also, how do you explain to an unbeliever that in the NT we are told clearly that the government has the right to execute justice as a previous poster pointed out?

    BTW
    God knew of the human possibility of errors when he instituted the death penalty and instituted it anyway.

    Anyone can claim that any Law is unjust, But by doing so-what is being implied must be take seriously into consideration and not just be ignored or shunted aside as if it were totally inconsequential. Either God is good or he isn't. You can't have it both ways.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  9. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    This
     
  10. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    I fully agree; however, I have a feeling scripture will be ignored and or twisted beyond recognition, in this thread.
     
  11. Solomons Porch

    Solomons Porch Solomon's Porch Supporter

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    I (personally) do not believe in it for the reasons that death to me is too easy. To live is hard. In my previous line of work, there were probably 4 people total that I looked dead in their eyes and saw NO LIFE and NO CONSCIOUS at all. They had nothing but a blank gaze and nothing was there.

    When a man just gets locked up, blood all over him and soot from the fire he started to burn the body he just hacked to pieces with an ax and his only question is: Ma'am I hope I didn't miss breakfast and can I have a nice mat? Now, this kind is hard to deal with and that's why I am happy to say let's leave this up to God. In the natural yes, lock em up and never let them out, but that's the problem our justice system is so screwed up.

    I could go into greater detail but I really think that to not be a good idea. When it came to a man that had murdered his twin babies and HOW he had done it, those are the kind also that are hard to swallow because it was horrific and barberic. I don't want them dead, but I do have other things in mind that I will also keep to myself.
     
  12. Eryk

    Eryk This could be the day Supporter

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    No study has ever shown that executions deter violent crime.

    There is an undue risk of executing innocent people.

    The death penalty has a coarsening effect on society, because it makes us comfortable with killing. This is not a killing in an emergency, but the premeditated killing of a human being in police custody. Real justice would curtail the cycle of violence instead of adding to it.

    God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and only wants them to turn from their ways and live. We have the ability in modern societies to show compassion to criminals without being naive or endangering the public. I am not talking about coddling criminals. I'm talking about preventing ourselves from being brutal.
     
  13. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Way I see it, IF someone is trying to hurt or kill you or another you may use lethal force at that time. However, until such time as we are God and are PERFECT I do not feel the death penalty should be used because you cannot bring them back if it is later determined that they were wrongly put to death ( which people ARE sometimes wrongly convicted which is why in death penalty cases we have so many appeals. There are OTHER reasons I oppose the death penalty as well.
     
  14. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    The problem I see with mere incarceration is that many enjoy being locked up and actually thrive in the prison criminal environment where they might very well be among the top dogs who go about violently intimidating other inmates.

    One female who recently murdered a famous singer has been incarcerated now for approx. 29 years and every single time that they interviewed her for a documentary she appeared to be very healthy and enjoying all the notoriety she had garnered via her crime. She showed no remorse whatsoever! Others even proudly boast about their murders when interviewed and even say that their crime was racially based. Then of course, after the interview, they go have a nice warm cup of coffee and a smoke. Sorry but I don't consider that justice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  15. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    But once more you are skirting the issue that I keep bringing to your attention. Was God being unjust by assigning mankind that privilege?
     
  16. Solomons Porch

    Solomons Porch Solomon's Porch Supporter

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    Oh, I do not disagree with our justice system royally sucks (pardon my language) because just as I spoke of the man that axed & burnt the body that was his 2nd murder. Yes very true, many times I had them tell me they needed a break from the world. So they go sleep all day, all night, having privileges of canteen, smoking and many other things. I truly very rarely witnessed anyone with true remorse and when I did, it was heartbreaking, such as a man in his 50's, high rank in the National Guard, came home earlier than planned after having a few beers with his friends, only to find a man with his wife, he lost it and shot the man, to listen to this man weeping bitterly was gut wrenching and having to have him on suicide watch. Only God knows the heart of a man or woman and that is why I try my best to not judge even though at times I find myself doing it, because nobody knows my heart, just as I don't know theirs.

    Many people put on a face that truly isn't who they really are at all. So this is a touchy subject, but I do have ideas of what I would "try" to do to bring justice but I do not wanna share that here and also it would stray from the topic. But yes, there are many abusers of the system and I have worked in a dirty filthy law enforcement agency where even the highest was dirty. I could write a book, but I've let that go and gave it to God as well.
     
  17. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Well, again God is perfect we are NOT you cannot bring people back.
     
  18. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Again you are skirting the question of the righteousness of God in assigning humans to execute the death penalty.
     
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  19. frienden thalord

    frienden thalord Well-Known Member

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    GOD is GOOD
    it is we who are evil. JESUS made it plain. we are all sinners
    so even when one deserves death , we aint the JUDGE only GOD IS
    we forgive , as we have been forgiven. IT is just . ITS just not just for us who have sinned
    to execute the sentence that only the real JUDGE can. All that the law
    said is JUST. its JUST that man and all humakind has sinned.
    And if the JUST GOD by grace saved us , reconciled us while we too deserved death
    How or what gives us who have broke Gods law and DO deserve death , the right
    to Act out the LAW against any who has. NOPE. we just preach the life saving
    life giving GOSPLE> and forgive as we too were forgiven JESUS sake .
    LET that sink in real deep .
     
  20. frienden thalord

    frienden thalord Well-Known Member

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    GOD is JUST , THE LAW is JUST .
    What ever sin one did that deserved death in the law. WAS JUST.
    However ....ONLY GOD IS RIGHTEOUS and ONLY GOD can be the JUDGE to give
    that sentence. quite clear as JESUS said about the lady in adultery.
    HE did not say....no the law iswrong. JESUS knew she deserved DEATH.
    for the LAW said SO.
    HOWEVER two things......GOD desires the evil to repent, Christ came to save lives.
    Number two. And I pray this sinks into many hearts today as well.
    Number two........LET HE who is without SIN cast the first stone.
    SUMS up Veangeance IS MINE thus sayeth the LORD. JESUS fulfilled the law.
    HE came to show us that all do deserve death by the HOLY RIGHTEOUS STANDARD
    of GOD and HIS HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW
    BUT he also SHOWS GODS MERCY AND LOVE FOR ALL
    and that GOD would rather one repent , believe and be saved.
    GOD will at times end execute HIS HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW
    in the mean time since a filthy hog like me , who instead of death
    was given grace, I will extend the mercy of GODS grace by the gospel of JEUS Christ.
    cause I KNOW I was wicked and deserved death ten thousand times over
    and I KNOW I am NOT the JUDGE of the LAW . ONLY GOD IS.
    man I hope this sinks into minds and hearts today.
     
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