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Featured Are You A Sinner?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    So Jesus died on the cross to remove a righteousness of obeying the legalistic law. Well if you want to believe that OK.
     
  2. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    I trust in Jesus as my Savior just fine. I just do not believe His grace is a license to sin, though. That is what one is saying when they say they are a sinner. One is saying they are a sinner (someone who sins) who is saved by grace.

    Peter warns us about those false prophets who cannot cease from sin (See 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14). To me, saying we cannot cease from sin is in line with a the belief that comes from false prophet that Peter warned us about.

    1 Timothy 1:9-11 says the Law was not made for a righteous man but it was made for sinners and the ungodly, etc.

    So just reading 1 Timothy 1:9-11 condemns the person who claims to be a sinner because it is saying that the Law was meant for these types of people.
     
  3. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    If one chooses to be saved by going the route of rule- keeping and obedience— good luck . Jesus said we are “ to be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect”. How ya doin’ with that one.Dont try to impress others with your pitiful performance. It does not matter how many times you invited strangers into your home or gave all your stuff to the poor.If you ain’t perfect, a miss is as good as a mile.James proclaimed if you break one commandment you break them all. Make sure when you pray at night for the forgiveness of the sins you committed that day that you mention the 613 laws you broke.Why not give up on Law-Keeping . It’s great for guiding your life.Its pleasing to God and He will bless you for it .It just does not save you.Faith does.Simply believe Paul’s Gospel given to him by Jesus.That would be 1cor15:1-4.Believe that, get the Holy Spirit in you and you will FIND yourself doing the things that please God.We do the trusting- God does the transforming from the inside out.Remember that “ inside of the cup “ thingy? Only God can do it.Trust Him and He will.It worked for me.God bless.
     
  4. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    So if someone is a sinner(as they are not perfect in the flesh) but does not admit it publically, they are not seeking a licence to sin, whereas, anyone who does admit they are a sinner(as described) is seeking a licence to sin. OK.
     
  5. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    You missed the context. Skip up to verse 43 and read all the way down to verse 48 (Matthew 5:43-48). This is just one aspect of being perfect being described here in the Bible. It is saying that for you to love your enemies as a part of being perfect.

    That would actually be a violation of Christ's commands.
    Besides, it is Christ who does the good work in us.
    He helps us to obey His commands.
    So any good done in our life, He deserves all the praise and glory and not ourselves.

    Not true. You will be rewarded for it.

    12 "Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
    13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
    14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:12-14).

    Not true. Jesus said this to the young rich ruler. Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (See Matthew 19:17). Jesus said that if he wanted to be perfect (yet another aspect of being perfect), he was to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and he would have great treasure in Heaven. Unfortunately, the rich ruler went away sad. So he was not saved.

    At the end of the chapter, the point was not about how we cannot keep God's laws, but the point was about forsaking things in our life as a part of everlasting life. For the disciples said they forsaken all to follow Jesus. So we know it is possible. In fact, it does not even have to be all of your possessions if you are not rich. Zacchaeus said to Jesus that he was willing to give away half of his goods. Jesus said salvation had come to his house that day (See Luke 19:1-10).

    That's ripping one verse out of context of what James was actually talking about. James's point was not about saying how we cannot keep God's laws. His point was that if you break the Royal Law of Love by having respect of persons by giving favor to rich brethren over poor brethren, you transgress the 2nd greatest commandment (Which is to love your neighbor). James drives the point home even more by saying that faith without works is dead. There is a difference between works of the Law and works of faith.

    The 613 Old Testament Law of Moses as a package deal (that was given to Israel) is no longer in effect. Now, granted, after the Fall of Adam and Eve (in their receiving the knowledge of good and evil): God's Eternal Moral Laws (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) are still in effect. Jesus and His followers list these moral laws many times and they give us warnings that our souls would face dire consequences in the afterlife if we were to break them. So yes, you actually have to obey as a part of God's grace and salvation. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    There are commands within the Faith.
    Or are you not under the Law or Command in 1 John 3:23?
    There are also works of faith, too.

    After we are saved by God's grace, works also play a part in the salvation process, too. Click on the following spoiler button to check out my list of verses.

    After we are saved by God's grace,
    God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


    (Here are a List of Verses):


    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

    "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    "...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

    "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

    "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

    “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

    "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

    “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

    "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

    ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

    "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

    “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

    "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

    "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

    ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

    "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

    “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

    "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

    “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

    “...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

    ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

    “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

    ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

    ”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

    ”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

    ”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

    ”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

    “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).



    While others may be different, I never said that we can obey God without God working in our life. I have a long list of verses that prove that fact. The problem is preaching a gospel message that does not line up with a proper understanding on Sanctification.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  6. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    You said before a believer can break the Moral Law and still be saved while doing so. That is a license to sin because the Bible teaches that you can overcome grievous sin (1 Peter 4:1-2) (Galatians 5:2) (Romans 13:14) (1 Corinthians 10:13) (2 Corinthians 7:1).
     
  7. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    I don’t write posts to change the minds of those that insist on preaching an “ accursed “ version of the True Gospel found in 1cor15:1-4. I just want wanna- bes and Newbies to have a chance to see that there is an alternative to legalistic hogwash.Its Faith plus nothing.
     
  8. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    Ah, so now you change it to ''grievous sin'' before it was simply ''sin''
    However, an example of grievous sin:
    Preaching a message that you do not practice in your own life which may crush believers who assume you do practice what you preach. They may then feel worthless and walk away from the faith, believing they could not be good enough for God. Is that not grievous sin? Being responsible for people walking away from the faith, through the yeast of hypocrisy(Luke12:1)
     
  9. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    I fear some on the internet, have a head theology, devoid of the reality of their lives. They have immersed themselves in reading the bible, and formulated theological beliefs on the partial letter of what is written that they do not themselves even try and follow. Their lives are as far away from their theology, as is the east from the west, and never the twain shall meet.
    It may be wonderful theology for pre-programmed robots who always perfectly follow the manual, but it is hardly real life, for neither they, or anyone else is a pre-programmed robot. And of course, it is devoid of the great love, mercy and compassion of God, it is just cold, hard religion. It is, the message of the Pharisees. No different at all.
     
  10. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Let's read what is a part of the calling of the gospel.

    God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through:

    (a) Sanctification of the Spirit.
    (b) Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus - John 14:6).​

    13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

    Context of this Sanctification by the Spirit:

    "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
    (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

    16 "Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
    17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

    So it is not just God's grace that saves us, but it also involves good works or the Sanctification of the Spirit, too.
     
  11. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    4:25 a.m. and so far today (I believe) my wife has not sinned yet.

    I probably should not wake her up.

    M-Bob
     
  12. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Yes, because not all sin is the same. This is what you refuse to accept in the Bible so as to defend an unbiblical viewpoint.

    John says there is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17). Peter says baptism is a command that does not relate to our salvation (1 Peter 3:21 compare the words "filth of the flesh" with the words "filthiness of the flesh" in 2 Corinthians 7:1 and you will see that it is in reference to sin). Jesus says that blasphemy (speaking bad words) against the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven, but blasphemy (speaking bad words) against the Son of Man (Jesus) can be forgiven (See Matthew 12:31-32).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  13. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    Quote me where I stated all sin is the same
    How does your above statement line up with all sin can be resisted?
     
  14. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Why did God destroy the world with a global flood?

    5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
    6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"
    (2 Peter 2:5-6).
     
  15. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Then you believe as I do then? If not all sin is the same in regards to our being condemned, then that means there are sins that can condemn us and there are sins (faults) that do not condemn us. For example: I do not believe God is going to send a believer to hell if they go 5mph over the speed limit. Yet, if a believer speeds down a 25mph street repeatedly at 45mph where kids are playing, then he is endangering the lives of the innocent. This is unloving towards your neighbor and is a salvation issue unless this believer repents.
     
  16. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    Well firstly, you need now to revise previous statements. For according to what you are writing now, Christians are not justified by obeying the entire moral law(examples can be given upon request

    This is what I believe.

    A man who beats his wife, has multiple affairs, gets drunk every night and constantly blasphemes becomes a Christian. He is instantly justified by faith in Christ, apart from works of the law. Faith in Christ is his righteousness(from first to last Rom1:17) for he can have no other righteousness-period. However, true saving faith will assuredly bring change in the individual, but they are not justified before God by their works, but rather works will follow a true conversion. If, gthree months after the man got saved nothing has changed, he still fully acts as described, he never had true saving faith in the first place.
     
  17. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    That's not the issue here. I believe that is possible, too (except for your "Grace Alone" statement inserted in there).

    For you do not believe in "Grace Alone." You just said so yourself. The man has to at least bring forth some level of holiness to show that he has changed, right? So you believe holiness needs to be a part of God's plan of salvation in some way. On some level, it needs to be there. But while you have your own standard of holiness as a part of salvation, God's standard of holiness is different. Grievous sin can actually separate a believer from God if they don't repent. I believe God calls us to obey all of the commands in the New Testament at some point in our lives. This is where we depart ways in our beliefs. You think all that detailed command stuff is just useless filler taking up space in your Bible. I do not. I believe it is there because God wants me to follow those commands. For it is not the holey bible where I get to pick and choose what parts I want to believe in, but it is the Holy Bible that is perfect and divine (Whereby God calls me to believe in all of it and obey).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  18. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    It is so hard for so many to understand or accept grace. You have only one righteousness before God-faith in Christ. I can immediately give you twenty verses all stating you have no righteousness of obeying the law. For righteousness of obeying the law requires perfect obedience of it, something you now admit is not required for justification.
    You are not justified by your works, but your works show you have had a true conversion by faith in Christ.
    However, I know you could never admit to error, so I see no point in going round and rounds in circles here.
     
  19. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    You can surely show those verses in support of your belief, but those verses would be posted out of context. For we know that those verses that talk about the Law by Paul were primarily said in context to Paul fighting against “Circumcision Salvationism” (See again: Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1; Also see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Please use your mouse to hover your cursor over the verses to see what I am talking about.

    For “Circumcision Salvationism” is teaching two wrong things.

    1. We are justified (saved) by Circumcision (Which is of the Law of Moses). So we are saved by the Law of Moses.

    2. We are saved by Law Alone because it is Circumcision and not God’s grace that initially gets us right with God.​

    So when you read the words of Paul talking about the Law in this way, you will begin to understand what he is truly talking about. But certain believers will ignore the context that talks about “Circumcision Salvationism” in their Bible, and they will seek to make it about how God’s grace is a doctrine for immortality on some level. For there are different levels of turning God’s grace into a doctrine for immortality. One can do so ever so subtly by saying we are sinners saved by God’s grace and we can break God’s Moral Laws and be saved while doing so.
     
  20. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    Bye Jason
     
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