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Featured Are You A Sinner?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. daydreamer40

    daydreamer40 Active Member

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    Grace is a hard thing to understand, impossible for the rational mind to contemplate, as is the very foundation upon which the new covenant stands:

    The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

    16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
    after that time, says the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds
    .’b]'>[b]

    17 Then he adds:

    Their sins and lawless acts
    I will remember no more


    Heb10:16&17


    Paul tells us:

    When the law was given sin increased(Rom5:20) Why:

    The power of sin is the law(of righteousness/justification)1Cor15:56


    Why is the power of sin the law?

    The penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings(strangely) much allurement to sin

    So God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3) It is no longer an external law written on tablets of stone but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. Meaning, in your heart you want to live as God desires you to live, for that is where the law has been placed. Because, and only because this has happened:

    Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.

    No justification of observing the law. This cannot result in those truly born again considering such grace a licence to sin, for the law is in their heart, and they in their heart want to obey it. And the law will never be removed from the heart of those truly born again.

    With the power of sin(righteousness of obeying the law) removed from the truly born again believer, what is the result? The born again believers heartfelt desire to obey can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience (justification of obeying the law) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from the believers life. And so Paul states:

    Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law(Rom3:31)

    Those who only have a head theology, cannot comprehend or accept the covenant, which is probably why so many on the internet refuse to accept it. They insist you must obey the law to be justified or you have a licence to sin. They do not understand the basics of the New Covenant to state that. Also, how can anyone who has the law in their most inward parts convince themselves they perfectly obey it? That is not possible. For though the power of sin has been removed from the believers life, if they accept the truth of the covenant, that does not mean they will ever be perfect in their flesh:

    For by one sacrifice he has made FOREVER PERFECT, those who are BEING made holy(Heb10:14)

    If you were sinless/perfect in your flesh, you would not be BEING made holy, you would already be perfectly holy. But God sees you as perfect forever, for he sees the sacrifice his son made for you at Calvary.

    Why do so many refuse to accept the covenant?


    But many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39

    For those who reject the truth, they are left with preaching a message they cannot attain to in their own lives.

    But, in NT times, some who were insincere, and had not truly been born again sought to use grace as a licence to sin(Jude4) But that did not stop Paul, (who, if we accept the canon was divinely inspired, was chosen as the chief exponent of the new covenant to the world) preaching the message boldly. But he made sure he warned those who did seek to use grace as a licence to sin of the perils in doing so.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    First, not all sins are the same (See 1 John 5:16-17).

    Second, sometimes Christians need to mature before they can walk uprightly with the Lord. It is not always an overnight process for some believers. They need to study and learn the Word of God. That takes time. That does not mean they have a license to sin, though.

    Three, Christians should obey the posted speed limits. While I believe it is a sin to go over the speed limit a little (like say 5mph), I do not believe it is a grievous sin that leads to spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). Yes, I am aware of Romans 13. But what is the context? Is it talking about minor infractions of the Law? I do not believe it is because Romans 13:4-5 says that if you do evil, be afraid, for the higher powers (government authorities) are a minister of God who does not bear the sword in vain; They are a revenger to execute wrath upon that person who does evil. This sounds like major transgression of Law to me here because they tell the reader to be afraid whereby they will throw you into prison or execute you for committing a major crime. However, if the police or judicial system does not punish you for going over a little (like say 5mph), why would God condemn you? But if you could be thrown in jail for going over a little, then I think it would be a big deal to break this kind of Law because the law is considered to be a serious infraction for that government. Also, if we are driving in such a way that puts others at risk by us going excessively fast, that is a serious lack of love of your neighbor and I would consider that a grievous sin. All God's laws are based upon loving God and loving your neighbor. If we have gone over the speed limit in a way that is too fast, we should repent and ask God for forgiveness, especially if the Lord convicts us of this sin. So while it is important to take seriously all the laws of the land that do not conflict with God's laws, I do not think minor infractions is what is in view of Romans 13 (even though we should obey the traffic laws as best as we possibly can). Remember, Jesus desired the Pharisees to focus on doing the weightier matters of the Law like love, justice, faith, and mercy (Which they did not obey - See Luke 11:42, and Matthew 23:23).

    Unintentional sins is not not the same thing as willful sin. If you were not paying attention, you could easily do this. This does not mean you committed a grievous sin. If you intended to run the light, then that is not good because it would not be loving your neighbor in the fact that you could have caused an accident. But if your mind was elsewhere and you were not intending to hurt anyone, then that is different. Also, Romans 13 is in view of major infractions whereby you can go to prison and or be executed. For it says for you to be afraid, for the higher powers do not bear the sword in vain.

    With the help of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can control our thoughts believe it or not. Bad thoughts in most cases are a salvation issue whereby we need to confess such sins immediately and forsake them. For Jesus said that looking upon a woman in lust it can potentially cause a person's entire body to be cast into hellfire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

    Romans 13:14 says put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and fulfill not the lusts of the flesh. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts.

    This is a salvation issue if we do not repent of such a thing. Jesus says a person defiles themselves not by what goes inside them but what comes out of their mouths. Jesus says your words can condemn you (See Matthew 12:37). So it is important to guard our words in what we say and make sure they always uplift God and His good ways.

    I think it depends on what you mean here. If a person doubts God's salvation later down the road, than I would say that is a very serious problem and it is probably the result of grievous sin in one's life that they did not repent of. Hebrews 3 warns not to let sin deceive you for it can cause a person to have an evil heart of unbelief whereby they can depart from the living God. Departing from God is not the same as backsliding into sin while believing in Jesus. Departing from God is denying God's salvation or denying God's existence after a person was once enlightened by the Spirit. Such a thing is apostasy and it cannot be repented of.

    Again, not all sins are the same (See 1 John 5:16-17).
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  3. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    James 2:10-13 NLT
    For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. [11] For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law. [12] So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. [13] There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.
     
  4. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    James 2:10-13 NLT
    For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. [11] For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law. [12] So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. [13] There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.
     
  5. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    Romans 2:1-11 NLT
    You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. [2] And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. [3] Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God’s judgment when you do the same things? [4] Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin? [5] But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. [6] He will judge everyone according to what they have done. [7] He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. [8] But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. [9] There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. [10] But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. [11] For God does not show favoritism.
     
  6. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    Salvation is repenting of sins and turn to God through Faith in Jesus Christ. If we truly repent, that means we no longer want to sin, but that doesn't mean that we totally surrender to Jesus' control. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit they felt shame. What does that mean? Shame is a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior. So they knew they did wrong. God then came to them and gave them the chance to make amends but they blamed others instead of confessing their sin, so they removed themselves from God's presence. Remember they hid from God. In their current state they could no longer be in God's presence, it brought them shame. And why did they have shame? Because they listened to the devil. The devil told them they would be like God. The devil told them they would get wisdom. They would get something that they didn't have. They envied the fruit. What is the solution? Forgiveness. We need to repent and ask for forgiveness. We need to mend our relationship with God and each other. How do we stop sinning? We listen and obey God, not the devil. The longer we walk with Jesus, the more we become like Him. The more we admit we are wrong and ask for forgiveness, the greater the healing. This is a life long journey. Mercies are new everyday. During the day God might remind us of our past sins and we have the opportunity to confess them and ask Jesus to forgive us and to give us the desire and Strength to overcome them. For some of our past sins we might have to make amends with other.

    I agree. We are not perfect but growing into the image of Jesus Christ

    2 Peter 1:5-11 NLT
    In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge, [6] and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness, [7] and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone. [8] The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But those who fail to develop in this way are shortsighted or blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins. [10] So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away. [11] Then God will give you a grand entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Why does the Law give sin its power. Look at Adam and Eve. The devil uses God's Law to tempt us. If there was no Law, there would be no temptation and sin. The Law gives the devil power over us.

    How is the Law written on our hearts? When we repent we have a change in heart. We no longer want to listen to the devil and we now want to listen to Jesus. Jesus gives us the desires and power to overcome temptation.

    Does Faith give us a license to sin? No! Because it is impossible to repent and not turn away from sin. It is like saying someone walked a mile forward when they walked a mile backwards. To repent is to walk with Jesus, not away from Him. I am not saying that when someone repents they turn away from all theirs sins at once. The human mind can't comprehend that. When I repented I felt like I lived an awful life, and I did. The longer I walk with Jesus the more sins in my past that are realized the more I confess them and turn to Jesus for healing. The more I surrender to Jesus, the more I die of myself, the more Jesus comes alive in me. We can't keep our lives. We must become less, Jesus must become more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  7. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    In the same story of Adam and Eve, they sinned and felt shame, but look at the story of Cain and Abel. Cain killed his brother Abel but felt no shame. Cain listened to the devil, he got to be his own god and killed Abel, but he felt no shame. He didn't think he did anything wrong. He thought he didn't sin even though he murdered his brother.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    How can you claim following the Law in love if you claim to be a sinner? It's an oxymoron or a contradiction. You preach a double message. If you are claiming to be a sinner, that means you are violating God's laws like loving your neighbor. So you cannot possibly follow the Law of Love at the same time. Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of the Moral Law like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.

    Do not confuse the Law of Moses with the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers. The Law of Moses is done away and we are not saved by Law Alone. That is what Paul was talking about.

    Before you said you were not under the Law, and now you are saying that Jesus did not come to abolish the Law. So are you under any kind of Law or not? What did Jesus mean when He said He came not to abolish the Law? Does that mean there are still laws for us today as believers?

    It appears so. For you seem to just stop at the point in the next few verses that destroys your belief. Matthew 5:28-30 says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire.

    Jesus also says in Matthew 6:15 that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father.

    Nowhere does Jesus say later that all these things were just a futile exercise in how you cannot keep God's commands.

    Funny how you just seem to stop close to the verses where it condemns your belief. In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul condemns a person who breaks the Moral Law. He essentially says if they do such sins, they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Also, Paul is concerned with what kind of Law here as being a problem? It is the Law of Moses because he says that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (See Galatians 5:2, Galatians 2:3, Romans 3:1; Also see Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

    Loving your neighbor is the fulfillment of the Law.
    You will keep the Moral Law automatically.
    But it is even more than that.
    Paul was trying to make a point that you will fulfill the Old Law if you love your neighbor. Paul was trying to get them to think New Covenant and not Old Covenant.
    This does not mean we can refuse to preach the gospel, or refuse to love the brethren, or refuse to help the poor, etc. These also are laws based on love that Paul does not specifically mention here that are just as important. For they can have dire consequences to our souls if we seek to be disobedient in such things (See Luke 9:62, 1 John 3:15, and Matthew 25:31-46).

    James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Do you honestly think the person who admits they are a sinner (Which is a position of rebellion against God) is truly being humble and they are not proud? Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of godliness, they are proud and they know nothing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Hence, why we have to obey God's laws as a part of the salvation equation. For a believer cannot continue to murder and be saved as long as they believe on Jesus.

    For was David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Surely not. For if he was saved, then God's Word is teaching we can live like the devil as long as we trust in the Lord as our Savior. But that is not how it works. You need God's grace and you need to live holy and righteous as a part of the salvation process. These are works of faith; And not works of the Law of Moses.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    ...
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Before you claimed that we are sinners and now you are claiming that you walk with Jesus? You cannot do both. You are preaching a double message (Which is common in the Eternal Security type beliefs or the Non-OSAS sin and still be saved belief). One is either walking with Jesus or they are walking in sin. You cannot do both. Jesus says you cannot serve two masters, for you will hate the one and love the other.

    Also, repentance is followed by the fruits of repentance (Which is to forsake one's evil ways). But repentance is not walking with Jesus. I will explain in my next post what repentance is (using the Bible).
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  12. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    1 Samuel 16:1-13 NLT
    Now the LORD said to Samuel, “You have mourned long enough for Saul. I have rejected him as king of Israel, so fill your flask with olive oil and go to Bethlehem. Find a man named Jesse who lives there, for I have selected one of his sons to be my king.” [2] But Samuel asked, “How can I do that? If Saul hears about it, he will kill me.” “Take a heifer with you,” the LORD replied, “and say that you have come to make a sacrifice to the LORD. [3] Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you which of his sons to anoint for me.” [4] So Samuel did as the LORD instructed. When he arrived at Bethlehem, the elders of the town came trembling to meet him. “What’s wrong?” they asked. “Do you come in peace?” [5] “Yes,” Samuel replied. “I have come to sacrifice to the LORD. Purify yourselves and come with me to the sacrifice.” Then Samuel performed the purification rite for Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice, too. [6] When they arrived, Samuel took one look at Eliab and thought, “Surely this is the LORD’s anointed!” [7] But the LORD said to Samuel, “Don’t judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The LORD doesn’t see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” [8] Then Jesse told his son Abinadab to step forward and walk in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “This is not the one the LORD has chosen.” [9] Next Jesse summoned Shimea, but Samuel said, “Neither is this the one the LORD has chosen.” [10] In the same way all seven of Jesse’s sons were presented to Samuel. But Samuel said to Jesse, “The LORD has not chosen any of these.” [11] Then Samuel asked, “Are these all the sons you have?” “There is still the youngest,” Jesse replied. “But he’s out in the fields watching the sheep and goats.” “Send for him at once,” Samuel said. “We will not sit down to eat until he arrives.” [12] So Jesse sent for him. He was dark and handsome, with beautiful eyes. And the LORD said, “This is the one; anoint him.” [13] So as David stood there among his brothers, Samuel took the flask of olive oil he had brought and anointed David with the oil. And the Spirit of the LORD came powerfully upon David from that day on. Then Samuel returned to Ramah.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    @Love &Forgiveness:

    My Biblical Case For Repentance:

    At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

    Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

    Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

    #1. Acts 2:38,

    The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
    Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
    New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

    #2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

    #3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

    (a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
    (b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

    #4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

    #5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

    #6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,

    "Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

    #7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

    "I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).​

    In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

    #8. Luke 10:13 says,

    "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

    #9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

    #10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.

    Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
    (But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).​

    13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

    Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.​
     
  14. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    Galatians 2:1-21 NLT
    Then fourteen years later I went back to Jerusalem again, this time with Barnabas; and Titus came along, too. [2] I went there because God revealed to me that I should go. While I was there I met privately with those considered to be leaders of the church and shared with them the message I had been preaching to the Gentiles. I wanted to make sure that we were in agreement, for fear that all my efforts had been wasted and I was running the race for nothing. [3] And they supported me and did not even demand that my companion Titus be circumcised, though he was a Gentile. [4] Even that question came up only because of some so-called believers there—false ones, really— who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. [5] But we refused to give in to them for a single moment. We wanted to preserve the truth of the gospel message for you. [6] And the leaders of the church had nothing to add to what I was preaching. (By the way, their reputation as great leaders made no difference to me, for God has no favorites.) [7] Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews. [8] For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles. [9] In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews. [10] Their only suggestion was that we keep on helping the poor, which I have always been eager to do. [11] But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. [12] When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. [13] As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. [14] When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions? [15] “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. [16] Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.” [17] But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! [18] Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. [19] For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law— I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God. [20] My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. [21] I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Lord does look at the heart. If one says they are a sinner, and yet they also say they walk with Jesus, they are preaching a double message. You cannot do both. It's either one or the other. Sure, we were all sinners as a part of our old life, but when we came to Jesus, He transformed our lives and gives us the power to overcome sin.

    "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Corinthians 10:13).

    "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

    "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24).

    1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
    2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

    "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

    "Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).

    “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).

    “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans 6:16 NLT).

    “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14).

    “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

    “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).

    “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

    “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

    “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4).

    “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).​

    For how do you explain these verses?
     
  16. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    What is your definition of sinner?
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Just quoting Scripture does not mean you are correct in what you say. You have to give a little of your own words here. Also, Paul is talking about the Law of Moses. How do we know? Read Galatians 2:3. They were trying to address the problem of "Circumcision Salvationism." Also, see Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1; Also see Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The same it would be for any other thing.
    What is the definition of a fire fighter?
    A fire fighter fights fires.
    Can a fire fighter retire?
    Yes. He could have once been a fire fighter.
    But that does not mean he is still a fire fighter.
    A person is a sinner because that is what they do.
    They sin.
    The key question here is what kind of sins do you think are acceptable for God's people to commit on a daily basis with them being saved.
    Do you think they can murder?
    How about stealing?
    How about adultery?
    Yes, believers can repent (Seek forgiveness with God), but if they do not change and walk with the Lord, then they really have not submitted to the Lord and His salvation.
    For a person saying that they are a sinner is like a person saying they never accepted Jesus and yet they are still saved by Him.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Paul was writing to a specific people group and he was not wring to believers who did live faithfully.
     
  20. Love &Forgiveness

    Love &Forgiveness Member

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    I agree their has to be change but it all doesn't happen at once and we will never not sin. We don't make a habit of sinning, but not completely sinless. I am not saying that I just sin all day and think that I am Saved just because I say a prayer or something. I don't want to sin and who I am today is a totally different person than I was and everyday I am moving closer to be more and more like Jesus, but I still sin. To not sin is impossible for me that is why I need Mercy. I need Jesus to wash me and cover me. Not to allow me to continue sinning, but to change me more and more to be like Him. In one sense I am not a sinner because I am not under the Law but under Grace, it is about my intention. To be perfect I would have to do everything selflessly. When Jesus told the rich man to be perfect he would have to sell everything he had and give it to the poor He was saying that to be perfect you need to do everything selflessly to be perfect, that is why Jesus is Perfect. Love is Selfless.
     
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