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Featured Are You A Sinner?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    Pastor Timothy Keller says that the world is not divided into sinners and saints, but into repentant and unrepentant sinners.

    Christian, are you a sinner?
     
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  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I suppose being a sinner is like being an alcoholic. Even when you quit drinking you're still an alcoholic, you're just no longer a drunk.
     
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  3. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    Some Christians believe that once they become saved, or baptized, that they are no longer sinners.
     
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  4. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is a pretty good way of putting it.
     
  5. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus said: "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." So the question is not: "are you a sinner" because we are all called to be righteous. The question is are we righteous before God.

    Jesus talks about the righteous when He says: "36 I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’" Matthew 25

    Jesus was righteous and He lived His live as an example for others to follow. He want about preaching, teaching and healing the sick.

    God is looking for the Fruit of the Spirit: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. When a tree produces fruit then the seed is in the fruit so the tree can reproduce itself. If we do not produce fruit then we are cut down and thrown into the fire.

    Jesus said: IT IS FINISHED. So the work God does in us is a perfect work. Finished means to be whole, compleat and mature. It means to bear fruit. We need to be washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus so we are without spot, blemish or wrinkle. WE do not live in the flesh to be carnal we live in the Spirit. So we put off the old man corrupted in deceitfulness and we become a new Creation Christ and we put on the new.
     
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  6. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But none have been perfected yet, none made incorruptible yet. These are works done by messiah at his return. So, I like the alcoholism analogy used above. :)
     
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  7. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I ran across a really odd belief among some "independent Baptists" that has it that no matter what a person does after baptism it isn't sin.
     
  8. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    So are you a sinner or not?
     
  9. Stringfellow_Hawke

    Stringfellow_Hawke Active Member

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    I was raised independent Baptist and I've never heard that ever. In recent years since learning more about churches and different beliefs, I've come to find out Independent Baptists can differ almost entirely one to another.
     
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  10. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I liar is no longer a liar, once they have turned away from a life of lying. Same goes for thieves and fornicators. And the sinner. Once he turns away from sin, he is no longer a sinner. To continue in sin, one would have to look/turn back. And no man who puteth his hand to the plow and look back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

    But it does sound good and make things easier if we categorize sin and list some that are ok, or even say that we cant stop so dont even try. These are the same that fight against homosexuality strongly..and forget that they believe we cant stop sinning, while fighting against them. There are ways that seem right....but the end thereof is death.

    "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."
     
  11. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The question is not are we a sinner, the question is are we righteous. Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Rev 19:8 "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Our wedding garment is to be washed and cleansed in the Blood.

    Matthew 25:37
    "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?"

    Jesus said it is finished. He does a perfect work in us to perfect us. The means to be whole, complete, mature and we are to bear fruit. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness & self control. Also there are spiritual gifts given for the good of everyone. The seed is in the fruit and we have to produce fruit to reproduce. If we do not produce fruit then the tree or branch is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    There are also spiritual gifts and ministry gifts. We can be used by God for His purpose. Jesus lived His live as an example for us to follow. He want around preaching, teaching and healing the sick and that is what we are to do. We are to have enough of the power of God in us to show that what we preach and teach comes from God and is not the doctrines of man.
     
  12. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    After we have been saved and joined the body of believers the Bible doesn't call us sinners anymore. Saints is the only term the Bible uses for someone who has come to the saving knowledge of Jesus.

    So while the Bible says we need to overcome or hold fast etc, we are always still referred to as saints.

    I believe a problem occurs when we start thinking of ourselves outside of that context. When we think of ourselves as sinners, we are more likely to excuse unGodly behavior..

    When we see ourselves as saints, we realize the full weight of what it means to commit a sin, to sin against the Holy Spirit.

    So while it's a catchy thing to say, it's unbiblical to say it. What we are is saints of God, and if we sin we have grieved the Spirit of God within us.
     
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  13. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Here it is popularized:



    Catchy infectious song, a real foot thumper, but unfortunately poor theology. It's of the same spirit which re-defines sin as; "nobody's perfect", "we all make mistakes", "we're only human afterall", etc. etc.
     
  14. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    As a matter of status in God's eyes, we are indeed holy and our sins are not counted against us.

    We are indeed saints - agios, holy ones - because of Christ and the sanctification of the spirit. But we are still sinners in that we sin and have a sin nature and are unworthy in ourselves.
     
  15. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    The standard list: pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth

    Do I struggle with any of these as a Christian? Yes. Do they characterize me, or define me? I hope not, I pray not, I hope to be granted repentance. The thing is, I am not sure how many people realize that our thoughts matter to God, that He knows us inside and out, every thought, word, deed, every attitude of the heart.
     
  16. harko

    harko Active Member

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    I'm a forgiven sinner :)
     
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  17. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I attended a church where he preached 360 sermons on different qualities that make up the mind of Christ. He had a scripture for ever sermon. For example 1 Peter 3:8 "Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble." There are five sermons here. People with the mind of Christ are "like-minded", they are sympathetic, they love one another and are compassionate and humble. I realized one day you could fill up a dictionary with words of the qualities of the Mind of Christ. One women even went through all her notes to come up with a list of all the qualities he preached on. I have it around here somewhere in a rubber maid container. He started in July 2000. They are still available. Some on tape some on disk. He is 97 and so far he is still preaching.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  18. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    The Apostle seems to disagree with that sentiment, as he not only includes Christians of all levels of maturity in the faith in the "we/our/us" of v8-10 below, he also includes himself.

    1 John 1
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

    In Chapter 2, St. John tells us who he included in the "we"/"our"/"us" group of Chapter 1.

    1 John 2
    1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
    2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
    3 And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    4 Whoever says “I know Him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
    5 but whoever keeps His word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in Him:
    6 whoever says he abides in Him ought to walk in the same way in which He walked.
    7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
    8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.
    9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
    10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.
    11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

    12 I am writing to you, little children,
    because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake.
    13 I am writing to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
    I am writing to you, young men,
    because you have overcome the evil one.
    I write to you, children,
    because you know the Father.
    14 I write to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
    I write to you, young men,
    because you are strong,
    and the word of God abides in you,
    and you have overcome the evil one.

    --David
     
  19. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We can not overcome the flesh in the flesh. We die to self so we can live for God.
     
  20. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    It wasn't so long ago I committed a sin.
     
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