Are women living in sin by being "the boss" in a marriage? Where did this come from?

[nanookadenord]

I chose other because I do not believe that it is necessarily a sin and that it is neither more common or less common today.

I am no leader by any stretch of the imagination and I know this. However, I do believe in equality or egalitarianism My girlfriend I am currently with also believes in that, so when we get married it will be an egalitarian marriage.

 

[bekkilyn]

In fact, the battle of the sexist did not start in the church of Corinth, nor in the 60s in America. The battle of the sexist started back in Eden. After Adam was created from Dust, the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” and God created Eve from Adam. Later on, the Devil in disguise deceived Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and she shared it with Adam. The Evil one went to the woman first in order to create dissatisfaction in her role, in order to create confusion with regards to the roles, for Adam was given the responsibility of leadership. Instead of leading Adam was following. Satan made it possible for Eve to debate the issue. If Satan can get anyone to begin to debate any of the issues that are already settled in the Word of God, he is two-thirds of the way there. When sin entered into the world the roles were reversed, men abdicated his responsibility. At the core of their sin is the rebellion of the heart that is why we desperately need to guard our heart above all because everything we do flows from it (Proverb 4:23).

Uncompromising Biblical Truth {Part I}

A Suitable Helper (in Hebrew)

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I'm sure there were *some* men who loved their wives in some way



, but in general, it wasn't a cultural requirement and wasn't how marriages were arranged. Marriages were more of a business transaction. It's not accurate at all to turn things into a #whataboutism, especially when many people in all areas of scripture were exceptions to their times. Look at all the younger sons who inherited everything, but for the *most* part, the older sons were heirs in ancient Israelite culture.

Marriage today is much, much different.

I would feel sad for any man that could have sex with a woman for a year or two or many and not love her and be in love with her.
Does not sound like God's intentions.
M-Bob

 

[Greg J.]

I agree with @aiki's post.

A marriage as God intended isn't possible when either person is not devoted to the Lord and his ways. Off-the-mark behavior of one spouse makes it difficult or impossible for the other to fulfill their role as God designed us. However, each person is responsible to God for their own behavior, regardless of what the other is doing. God put an authoritative nature in males, and the nature of being his helper into females. This fact is not tied to culture. (1 Timothy 2:13)

(Skip to the "*****" to skip my version of history.)

The situation we find ourselves in can easily be traced back to World War II when America needed many women to work to support the war. It can be traced farther back than that, but that's as far back as I've gone. There was already a culture of husbands not obeying God, and women not being devoted to the Lord. As a result, when so many women experienced the empowerment from feeling useful and earning an income, it filled an emptiness they had and they didn't want to let it go. (IMO, that's the source of the feminist movement that became more visible in the late 1960s and just kept growing.) Some of the objections women had were justified because so many men had fallen away from devotion to the Lord. The women chose a carnal response since they also had fallen away from devotion to the Lord. Ideally men's behavior would not have brought about the attitude of women, and ideally women's reaction should have been to humble themselves before God.

But all this was happening in a culture where both Godly choices would result in a lot of pain. The options are few for a woman to feed her children when her husband has abandoned her. Our culture was so ungodly that many women had little choice but to step into the husband's shoes. For many women this was the least painful choice (which still was painful). The pain from the sins of many had apparently made staying together too painful for the husband.

If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1 Timothy 5:8, 1984 NIV)

God desired men to be humble agents of His authority in service to God (through living by the Spirit), and women to have gentle and quiet spirits (1 Peter 3:4) in their help to men. Both of these roles take advantage of the nature God gave us. Neither males or females have greater inherent worth to God and this should certainly be reflected in our attitudes and respectfulness.

*****
We are now in an extremely sinful culture where no choice can really work completely (because it would require so many others to be Godly). Trying to change others to be contrarian to their own culture is difficult (which means living rejected by friends, coworkers, and most of what you see in the media, resulting in having to fight against self-rejection—e.g., changing people's minds about Jesus). Probably the most powerful thing a family can do to change the culture in the direction of Godliness is follow God's model in their own family, even though the deeper result in marriages is delayed a generation. This can be done in many ways, and many are doing it (e.g., homeschooling), but not nearly enough to affect the culture as a whole. These children can grow up more spiritually healthy simply by not being immersed in the country's culture every day. In their marriages a greater spousal Godliness and peace can be found. But they still have to live in this world and it is difficult.

Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Hebrews 11:16, 1984 NIV)

This is a promise from God, which He keeps faithfully:

“Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:17-18, 1984 NIV)

So my response to the OP Title is: God is the Judge and he will take into account what hand people were dealt when he examines their behavior.

because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:14, 1984 NIV)

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am going to keep this brief but I find some of the posts in this thread unsettling and lacking a bit in the spiritual nature of what God intended.

If we look at God, we will see there is a hierarchy to some extent. Jesus, or even the Son is in perfect obedience to the Father and is One with the Father, but the Father is the ultimate authority or the Highest of Highs so to speak.

However, looking further at this relationship, we know that the Son has been given and has all authority over all creation.

Looking at the Holy Spirit we know God’s beloved Children have been given the Holy Spirit to guide them in all Truth and to convict us of our sin and lead us to sanctified lives.

I think ppl need to pull their heads out of the sand and realize that final authority is given by God to a man but also more is expected by God from a man. A man is to spiritually lead his family in Christ and in teaching, following the two most important commands left to all of us by Christ to live God and love one another. A man will be held ACCOUNTABLE by God for his wife and family. How he did or did not lead. How he did or did not move his household towards Christ and love for God and others.

I hope ppl will see that a man has a responsibility to GOD in his actions and quit with all this foolishness talking and bashing of women.

It takes this conversation in the wrong direction away from a mans spiritual responsibilities to God to a cave man like outlook like they are a superior species or something.

God has always been into order.

Men need to drop the cave man like thinking And get the spiritual aspects and their households would do better to pray then to try and be some sort of lording authority over another human being type of thing.

I think their is a male only subforum where you men can bash women and keep to yourselves and vent.

But Advice should show the entirety and both sides of what God intended in marriage and the real role that God has given men and how they are to conduct themselves.

God tells a man to love their wife like Christ loves His Church.

Once you men have been doing that in your relationships and are acting like Christ, come back and let’s talk.

 

[bekkilyn]

I would feel sad for any man that could have sex with a woman for a year or two or many and not love her and be in love with her.
Does not sound like God's intentions.
M-Bob

Yes, it is sad, and I think that was a big part of what was on Paul's mind when he wrote that men should love their wives as Christ loved the church, and then spent so much more time in his instruction to men compared to his instructions to women, children, and slaves. He wanted Christian men to be different, to behave differently, than they were before they came to Christ, to live their lives (and marriages) differently.

 

[woobadooba]

If you think you should get whatever you want, then marriage won't work for you.

 

[Joy]

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[jacks]

I also choose "other". In my marriage it depends on the situation on who is the "boss". There are many aspects of our life that fall mostly under the control of my wife and she makes the decisions concerning them. I can't imagine trying to micro-manage her interests, responsibilities or hobbies. When in comes to areas we both feel are important and disagree, (I truly try to listen to her point of view she is often to usually right.) but ultimately she lets me make the final choice. This is not a power I abuse, I truly try to do what is best for both of us. It seems to work for us and I don't feel either of us are sinning in these situations

 

[Mountainmanbob]

(I truly try to listen to her point of view she is often to usually right.) but ultimately she lets me make the final choice.



This is not a power I abuse, I truly try to do what is best for both of us. It seems to work for us and I don't feel either of us are sinning in these situations

Works good up top the mountain.

It Ain't Easy Living with a Saint.

M-Bob

 

[seeking.IAM]

Does marriage need a "boss?" I have a contented, loving 44-year marriage that has been an equal partnership. Somebody tell me quick so I change this wonderful marriage before its too late.

 

[Shempster]

Now this may vary depending on what country you're in and your age. But it seems more and more young christian women seem to "rule" their marriage today. The line "My wifes the boss" is often said to be a joke but many admit it really is the case. And from what I seen it is indeed true.

Obviously I don't believe the woman is a slave of course. Meant to feed you, have babies and do what you ask. I believe they are an equal for the most part. But I rarely see it in younger couples anymore. I'm sure alot of it has to do with extreme feminism (as in beyond just equal rights stuff). Even my own mother is the "boss" in her marriage. Sure maybe the husband has their opinions, but in the end the wife seems to make the last call.

So does this mean the woman is living in sin? I often wonder if this goes back to Eve biting the apple first. Its like because she made the first move, she sort of added a weakness among women to feel controlling over their husband.

The older couples I know (I'm near 40) have a very much equal marriage. No one really has total control. Now to be fair before someone panics, I do realize men have a issue of tending to be stubborn or not always making the best decisions.

The curse of Eve is interesting. The KJV says the woman will DESIRE her husband and from my studies of the original Hebrew meaning, it is that the woman shall desire to rule over her husband.
This is a problem, as the man is known to be stronger than women.
Some may disagree with this, but the way I see it is that women are stronger than men in about every area with the exception of physical strength. But God set up men to be the leaders.
What a conundrum.
The only way I can make sense of this is to look at the nature and character of Jesus himself.
Both men and women have strengths, but each should submit to the other in love.

 

[timewerx]

Nowhere in the Bible says it's a sin for a woman to lead the family (over the husband). Nor it's a sin for a woman to lead a religious gathering.

Ironically, Paul who gave the teaching that wives should submit to their husbands and also lists the sins and none of those sins involve women leading the family, nor a religious gathering.

 

[timewerx]

First, those are Jewish families and Paul's letters weren't directly towards them, and second, I am speaking in general terms of the culture. I'm sure there were *some* men who loved their wives in some way, but in general, it wasn't a cultural requirement and wasn't how marriages were arranged. Marriages were more of a business transaction. It's not accurate at all to turn things into a #whataboutism, especially when many people in all areas of scripture were exceptions to their times. Look at all the younger sons who inherited everything, but for the *most* part, the older sons were heirs in ancient Israelite culture.

Marriage today is much, much different.

It's funny that today, in modern Jewish culture, the wife is the big boss of the house! Even though Jewish culture is regarded as a "patriarch".

Ironically, even in Arabic (Muslim) culture, I also often hear married Muslim men, calling their wives "boss" or "mother". Even if they talk to each other, you can quickly see who's the boss (the wife!). Even though Islam is heavily patriarchal. Interesting times we live in.

 

[Godcrazy]

I don't think there would be any problem, if its agreed and understood who got the final say more that it's understood as well that IF he's actually are about to make a big mistake, then it would be just alright for the other to intervene. I can't see why that should be wrong. And I only mean when that really happens. But when the trust is there everyone's heard and listened to I don't see the fuzz.
What I've seen is many if not most men doesn't want to be "provider protecter, supporter" Like God told him to be. The man I lived with, who did believe in God but in a new age twist that new age we were into had twisted the scriptures, into gnosticism Christian twist. The laws were there but changed. But it did say for him to be the provider, the protector and supporter and that it was his task and to fail that was to fail God. So he did. For years. Except for the wrong things with it all,, we actually were best friends, and he was happy for the first time in his life. Fast forward, when he changed, and he got more ill, he started to accuse me and blame me for the same things. That wasn't even true. But you know this idea the whole biblical view of protect, provide and support is seen by the world as archaic and as the women using the men. I bet God is upset over it all But that's how it became, he all of a sudden changed into that world view. Which only hurt us and ended up with nothing.
So that only proves what works.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

An interesting way of phrasing the question. It seems to me that you have biased it already whether someone agrees or not.

Why not ask the question, is a man living in sin if he lets his wife rule the marriage? Why is it only the woman who is sinning?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I agree with @aiki's post.

A marriage as God intended isn't possible when either person is not devoted to the Lord and his ways. Off-the-mark behavior of one spouse makes it difficult or impossible for the other to fulfill their role as God designed us. However, each person is responsible to God for their own behavior, regardless of what the other is doing. God put an authoritative nature in males, and the nature of being his helper into females. This fact is not tied to culture. (1 Timothy 2:13)

(Skip to the "*****" to skip my version of history.)

The situation we find ourselves in can easily be traced back to World War II when America needed many women to work to support the war. It can be traced farther back than that, but that's as far back as I've gone. There was already a culture of husbands not obeying God, and women not being devoted to the Lord. As a result, when so many women experienced the empowerment from feeling useful and earning an income, it filled an emptiness they had and they didn't want to let it go. (IMO, that's the source of the feminist movement that became more visible in the late 1960s and just kept growing.) Some of the objections women had were justified because so many men had fallen away from devotion to the Lord. The women chose a carnal response since they also had fallen away from devotion to the Lord. Ideally men's behavior would not have brought about the attitude of women, and ideally women's reaction should have been to humble themselves before God.

But all this was happening in a culture where both Godly choices would result in a lot of pain. The options are few for a woman to feed her children when her husband has abandoned her. Our culture was so ungodly that many women had little choice but to step into the husband's shoes. For many women this was the least painful choice (which still was painful). The pain from the sins of many had apparently made staying together too painful for the husband.

If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1 Timothy 5:8, 1984 NIV)

God desired men to be humble agents of His authority in service to God (through living by the Spirit), and women to have gentle and quiet spirits (1 Peter 3:4) in their help to men. Both of these roles take advantage of the nature God gave us. Neither males or females have greater inherent worth to God and this should certainly be reflected in our attitudes and respectfulness.

*****
We are now in an extremely sinful culture where no choice can really work completely (because it would require so many others to be Godly). Trying to change others to be contrarian to their own culture is difficult (which means living rejected by friends, coworkers, and most of what you see in the media, resulting in having to fight against self-rejection—e.g., changing people's minds about Jesus). Probably the most powerful thing a family can do to change the culture in the direction of Godliness is follow God's model in their own family, even though the deeper result in marriages is delayed a generation. This can be done in many ways, and many are doing it (e.g., homeschooling), but not nearly enough to affect the culture as a whole. These children can grow up more spiritually healthy simply by not being immersed in the country's culture every day. In their marriages a greater spousal Godliness and peace can be found. But they still have to live in this world and it is difficult.

Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Hebrews 11:16, 1984 NIV)

This is a promise from God, which He keeps faithfully:

“Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:17-18, 1984 NIV)

So my response to the OP Title is: God is the Judge and he will take into account what hand people were dealt when he examines their behavior.

because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:14, 1984 NIV)

I
Don’t completely disagree but u think this is far to convoluted.

I think when divorce rates
Started climbing, women realized that in the case of divorce if they had stayed at home raising children, after a divorce they were unable to care financially for their children and themselves because they had no job experience or marketable skills.

As more and more women saw their relatives, friends and / or themselves in this situation women had to enter the work force, not so much because they choose to or wanted to but out of necessity and survival.

The next generation after seeing all these hardships because women had not protected themselves in case of divorce, chose to arm themselves with an education and work experience before ever desiring a family or marrying. Because when a women steps out of the workforce to care for a family she puts herself at an extreme disadvantage, her skill set in the workplace become less marketable, she is not gaining experience from working and other factors, women wondered if staying home was even a right choice anymore.

Much of this was deed by divorces and I’m not going to say whose fault that is but men are driven by their eyes
And every woman I ve ever known as she ages becomes less attractive with wrinkles or body changes after children ect.

Not putting all the blame on men, but if men weren’t tired off their lives with their wives and families and decided to divorce and move on, I don’t think women would have decided they needed to enter the workforce like they did. Not as many as quickly.

Just my take.

 

[salt-n-light]

Now this may vary depending on what country you're in and your age. But it seems more and more young christian women seem to "rule" their marriage today. The line "My wifes the boss" is often said to be a joke but many admit it really is the case. And from what I seen it is indeed true.

Obviously I don't believe the woman is a slave of course. Meant to feed you, have babies and do what you ask. I believe they are an equal for the most part. But I rarely see it in younger couples anymore. I'm sure alot of it has to do with extreme feminism (as in beyond just equal rights stuff). Even my own mother is the "boss" in her marriage. Sure maybe the husband has their opinions, but in the end the wife seems to make the last call.

So does this mean the woman is living in sin? I often wonder if this goes back to Eve biting the apple first. Its like because she made the first move, she sort of added a weakness among women to feel controlling over their husband.

The older couples I know (I'm near 40) have a very much equal marriage. No one really has total control. Now to be fair before someone panics, I do realize men have a issue of tending to be stubborn or not always making the best decisions.

The wife can’t be in sin being the boss without the husband being in sin by not being the boss.

So it’s really either they are both in sin, or none in sin.

But you can be boss without being the ultimate authority. Neither the husband nor wife are the ultimate authority. God is, but both are given big roles that compliment each other. I don’t see wife being a boss as threatening to that. There are cases where she would have to, for the sake of her children and household.

 

[ToBeLoved]

An interesting way of phrasing the question. It seems to me that you have biased it already whether someone agrees or not.

Why not ask the question, is a man living in sin if he lets his wife rule the marriage? Why is it only the woman who is sinning?

That was part of my point with my first post that I didn’t really get into.

I think the title of this thread attracted a person maybe with a certain bias against a woman for whatever reason and this thread in the first two pages seemed like an attack against women.

My entire point for posting was to show that if the authority and responsibility was given by Christ, specifically to men that the breakdown started with men.

Although there are some feminists who won’t listen to God because they do t want to or disagree with what is written in God’s Word, many women were put in very bad situations by the initial breakdown of the family both spiritually and physically.

Since men didn’t want to financially support their ex wives after a divorce, what choice did women have without income?

I think people should look a little more honestly at what did indeed occur and the ramifications brought about because of it.

I think men are really delusional if they don’t think that women were forced ina way into what society is today.

A woman who is a care taker at heart, is going to take care of her children. Too many disadvantages to women and children when a family separates. Most women will not abandon their children, but to a certain degree a man can and will.

 

[Foxfyre]

Now this may vary depending on what country you're in and your age. But it seems more and more young christian women seem to "rule" their marriage today. The line "My wifes the boss" is often said to be a joke but many admit it really is the case. And from what I seen it is indeed true.

Obviously I don't believe the woman is a slave of course. Meant to feed you, have babies and do what you ask. I believe they are an equal for the most part. But I rarely see it in younger couples anymore. I'm sure alot of it has to do with extreme feminism (as in beyond just equal rights stuff). Even my own mother is the "boss" in her marriage. Sure maybe the husband has their opinions, but in the end the wife seems to make the last call.

So does this mean the woman is living in sin? I often wonder if this goes back to Eve biting the apple first. Its like because she made the first move, she sort of added a weakness among women to feel controlling over their husband.

The older couples I know (I'm near 40) have a very much equal marriage. No one really has total control. Now to be fair before someone panics, I do realize men have a issue of tending to be stubborn or not always making the best decisions.

I believe in the Bible principle that in the Christian family, the man is the head of the house meaning that the primary responsibility of providing for and protecting the family falls on him and, more subjectively, if there is no agreement and a decision must be made, he makes it.

The woman can assist in all of that, but the primary responsibility is not hers so long as her husband is mentally and physically capable. Her responsibility is to make of the house a home, a safe haven and inspiring and edifying environment for the children, and to provide calm amidst chaos. He can assist in all of that, but the primary responsibility is hers.

If he is the head, she is the heart of the home. She submits to her husband not because she is required to, but because she chooses to. She chooses to because he treats her as himself with love, respect, and consideration for her needs, wants, fears, and opinions.

In a Christian marriage, the two are joined together as one, i.e. though they have different primary responsibilities, joined together they make a whole.

So supportive and Godly a relationship and home environment teaches the children by example and instills a comforting understanding of one's place in the world, propriety, ethics, and personal responsibility that will greatly enhance their chance for personal happiness, self worth, and success for the rest of their lives. The parents are positive and necessary role models for the children.

And I do believe anything short of this among consenting and reasonably healthy adults will be sin--deliberate sin and/or sin of omission or error. Sin, in this context, is defined as that which harms us and/or others directly or indirectly.