Are women inferior to men?

[Extraneous]

We don't "cast out" demons, we instead leave the place of their dwelling, which is the world.


Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’




We leave Babylon, we are dead and risen with Christ in heaven, we are hidden there with Christ. He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence.


Colossians 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them!
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”




Psalm 91:91 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”

3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

 

[Extraneous]

Therefore, where your treasure is, so your heart will be also.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Are women inferior to men? Yes!

They are are inferior to men at being men.

Seriously: Equal in value, different in roles.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

1) Well-known passages from the Apostle Paul seem to indicate that women are not to have authority over men or even speak in church.

2) God created the man first, then the woman.

3) Every author of Scripture (that we know of) is a man.

4) All of Christ's Apostles were men.

5) Christ himself is a man, and God is clearly described as masculine in Scripture.

Thoughts?

I Peter 3:7:
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

I Timothy 2:11-14:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

...but...

Galations 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I think the above passages go a long way in explaining the condition of man and women for us. Woman is the weaker partner...Paul says, in my view this is what he says...women are inherently spiritually weaker than men pointing to the evidence that Eve was more easily deceived...Adam was not the one deceived by Satan. It seems then that having women remain submissive to their husbands serves the purpose of providing spiritual protection to women by their husbands.
Claiming superiority among the sexes is out of line however for we are all one in Christ...back to functioning as a unit and the state of being entirely dependent on one another.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

There's no inherent difference between man and woman other than the biological differences and the fact that one has been more susceptible to something than the other. I will just have to repeat something, The woman wasn't deceived because she was sinful in nature but because she had something made her vulnerable to the sinful nature. I would like to call it a "weakness" hence it was beyond her to have fallen right through it. The only thing that we may never fully comprehend was why the devil picked on her and not ADAM??? Sadly, everything happened the way it did and it was crucial that women remained subject to the Man's leadership specifically, in the Marriage institution and the Holy Insitution of the "Assemblies of God" the rest, is "Give God what is God's and Caesar's what is Caesar's!!!!

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Oh yes, Woman is vulnerable to her emotional nature and man is weak to his aggressive/competitiveness nature. It's the only thing that explained Cain's curse and Eve's. That's ALL

 

[Strong in Him]

Are women inferior to men? Yes!

They are are inferior to men at being men.

Seriously: Equal in value, different in roles.

Someone asked me once if I was interested in equality for women.
I said, "no, why should we lower our standards?"

 

[Strong in Him]

The Harlot of Proverbs and Revelation is also feminine.

So?
You not saying that the Holy Spirit is equal to, or the same as, the harlot - surely??

 

[throughfiierytrial]

So?
You not saying that the Holy Spirit is equal to, or the same as, the harlot - surely??

I don't follow, surely you are not claiming the Holy Spirit is feminine??? Tell me NO please tell me.

 

[Imagican]

I have to agree, but only because I have to, as the Bible is pretty cut and dry on the subject.

Not sure if I have to like it, or that I have to think it was fair... after all, both Adam and Eve sinned, just because Eve did it first, seems to me a bit irrelevant. But in the end, I have to go with Gods choices on the, matter and assume he has his good reasons for this choice as he does in all he does.

Only other comment I have at the moment is some men need to be very careful with the rules on this, and not get carried away. But if that does happen, it's not the rules that cause problems, but the abuse thereof. To be a little less vague, I'm talking about the combination of ego and the rules, they can be a recipe for much abuse.

It's not 'what we do', but 'why' we do it.

Not only did Eve listen to the serpent and choose to follow it's influence, but then went and somehow influenced Adam to eat as well.

So it's not about 'order', it's about 'intent'. Not 'just' because she ate first. But the 'reason' she ate and then went and influenced Adam to eat as well.

Man does not have permission to 'abuse' woman. That is not what it means to have man 'rule over them'.

What it really means, (in my opinion), is that when it comes to the 'family', the man is the head, (suppose to be), in order for the family to proper in the proper aspects of the 'unit'. Both spiritual and secular.

That doesn't give him a right to abuse the position. It actually places 'more' responsibility on the man to make decisions that are best for others as well as himself. But what is most important is the 'family' instead of any one individual.

And that is why Paul encouraged those able to be celibate. For to take on a wife and children is to place oneself in a position of responsibility 'for' others as well as oneself. And the love that could be shared with God must then be divided between God 'and' family.

A 'good leader' has a pretty tough job. But it takes 'good followers' to make a 'good leader'. Hence, the reason that our present leaders of our country are so inept at their duties. The followers of this country are just as irresponsible as it's leaders. In fact, if this country truly is run 'by and for the people', our leaders are nothing more than a reflection of the people themselves.

It's no different with 'the family'. A family who has a 'proper head' doesn't have to suffer like one with a 'poor head'. And being the 'head' adds a whole new dimension of responsibility on 'the man' in order to 'be' a 'good head'.

And I have often questioned whether God placing Eve under Adam's 'rule' was actually a punishment. For it is also my opinion that if Eve had gone to Adam and asked him about the serpents offer he would have told her 'no'. But making the decision without seeking the advice of Adam is what led to her 'disobedience'. So it would not be a punishment to command that someone 'do' what is only righteous. Adam was first and maybe being only a 'part' of Adam left Eve in a position to be more dependent upon Adam than Adam was upon Eve. Think about it. Adam was formed directly by God from the elements he was made of. Yet Eve was formed from a 'part' of Adam. There is a difference. While Adam's existence was entirely dependent upon God, Eve was dependent upon both God 'and' Adam for her existence. She was actually a 'part' of Adam.

But what I offer could certainly be denied by those that refuse to accept what we are offered in the Bible. The 'spirit of Eve' that led to her disobedience is as alive today as it was in the garden. So for those that would opt to ignore what we are offered in the Bible much of what I offer is not only difficult to accept, but for some they often take my words as 'fighting talk'. So be it.

It's not our job to make up our 'own' understanding from God's word. It is our responsibility to accept it and understand it 'as offered'. Difficult for anyone who places more glory upon themselves than God. The Bible also explains to us that there would come a time when humanity would begin to worship the 'creature' more than the 'Creator'. And it would often seem that humanity has reached that prediction today.

I didn't pen the words. I have simply read them and believe that I have come to a proper understanding of them. There are 'reasons' that God placed His 'order' in creation. It's not up to us to alter or make changes to it. It's our responsibility to understand it and 'follow it'. First we 'read', then we compare, and once what we have read and compared offers 'understanding', we are then to 'follow'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Extraneous]

So?
You not saying that the Holy Spirit is equal to

Let God be true and every man a liar (includes woman)

 

[Imagican]

And yet, in the OT, he chose a woman - Deborah - to be judge over the nation and leader of men.

This is a common misconception used by the feminist crowd to try and circumvent the truth.

Can you show scripture that states she was a 'leader of men'? This is what the Bible says she was:

4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

It says that she 'judged' Israel at that time. Not one word about being it's leader or the 'leader of men'.

It states that Israel came to her for 'judgement', not leadership. It is perfectly clear that there we still male 'leaders' of Israel. She simply offered her 'advice'.

All you need to do is read the account of the song that was sung by Deborah and Barak.

Judges 5:

12 Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam.

13 Then he made him that remaineth have dominion over the nobles among the people: the Lord made me have dominion over the mighty.

This plainly shows that Deborah was 'not' the leader, but Barak. And it states that the authority was 'given' By God.

Deborah was a prophetess. That is what the Bible 'says'. She was addressed to offer her prophecy, (understanding), and therefore was considered a 'judge' in Israel. Not it's 'leader'. Nor do we have any words that offer she was the leader of 'any man'. She offered 'judgement', (prophecy), not leadership.

Yet I have heard it stated over and over that she was a 'leader of men', that is not what the Bible says. For if there were any instance in the Bible where God placed women in leadership over men, the words of Paul would be utter lies. If the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then there was 'never' a woman placed in the position of leadership over men by God. And never will be a woman placed by God in a position of leadership over men.

That doesn't alter the will of many women to place themselves in such a position. For as I previously offered, the 'spirit of Eve' is alive and well to this very day. Those women that would choose to ignore what the Bible offers for the sake of 'self'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Paul's remarks were invoking the law. Remember, he was a Pharisee first. His letters to his churches weren't to say God would never give his word to women to deliver to the world. Rather, his remarks about women remaining quiet in church concerned the segregation that occurred in temple at the time. Men separated from women so that they were not distracted by one another.
As was the custom if a woman didn't understand what was being said she'd lean to her husband to explain. The directive therefore was that that should not occur in church/temple. Rather, women should wait until they were in private to make their inquiry and not disrupt the service.

Wouldn't it be odd for Paul to say in a different passage that all are one in Christ Jesus if he were to be saying in a different passage that women were inferior?

Not 'odd' at all. So far as 'Salvation' is concerned, we are all equal.

And I hope no one believes what you offered concerning Paul's writings being inspired by 'the times' and not God through Christ. What is offered above is basically stating that what Paul offered were his own words inspired by his 'culture' or 'religion' and not by God Himself. But this is what Paul 'states':

1 Corinthians 14:

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

This makes it perfectly clear that Paul was offering God's words, not his own.

But there is little doubt that the 'law' would have in many way reflected God's word. So not only were the words that Paul offered the words of God, the law as well defined the same concepts.

So it wasn't the 'culture' that dictated Paul's words, he states that if any man considers himself a 'prophet' or even 'spiritual' let him acknowledge that the things he stated are the 'commandments of God'. Not culturally discerned, (yet even the law, (culture), had conformed to the same concept), but commandments of God.

So what the author offered above is utterly contrary to what we are offered in the Bible. And often I have heard others try to interject the same defense. Yet this defense is contrary to the 'truth' that we have been offered in God's word.

Unless, of course, one is of the opinion that Paul's words were 'his own' and 'not' inspired by God through His Son. If that's the case, then I can't really discuss Biblical issues with one with this opinion. Either the Bible is 'truth' or it is not. I choose to believe it is. Directly inspired by God Himself. If I didn't I'd have nothing to base my faith upon except 'myself' or 'others'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Righttruth]

I do think that this is a hot topic. One of the things that has really stuck out to me is Judges 4. God made Deborah, a woman, leader over Israel.

Exceptions are not a general rule. Deborah was a submissive wife to her husband in the first place.

 

[Hillsage]

I know I've read, in two different sources, that a word used for the Holy Spirit is feminine, but I can't remember where I read it and I'm not going to argue the point.

It's not about arguing, but coming to an knowledge of the truth IMO. And in doing more research I found that in the OT Hebrew, Spirit/Ruwach was Feminine in gender and in the NT Greek Spirit/Pneuma is Neuter in gender. Below I found a comment from someone that really kind of sums it all up at the end I think. What it basically means is a 'male' can have feminine characteristics, and a 'female' can have masculine characteristics. But that has nothing to do with you being a male or female.

"Question: Why is the word in Hebrew for the Holy Spirit a female noun? I am not saying God is a woman or a man. I am saying the word for Holy Spirit in Hebrew is of feminine gender.


Answer: Gender in a noun does not always mean it is referring to a male or a female.


Most words in non-English languages have gender. If in Spanish the word for "fish" is masculine (pescado), does it only refer to a male fish? No, of course not. It just means that the word for fish is expressed in the masculine gender. We English-speakers have taken out many of the gender markers on words. Other than words like "steward" vs."stewardess," most English words have no gender.


The Hebrew word for spirit, "ruach," is a feminine noun. But that simply means the word itself is expressed in that gender. Nothing more is implied.


It does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is feminine. It is simply the way that word is rendered in that language. In the Greek language of the New Testament, the word for "spirit" is "pneuma," which is a neuter noun. Basing a doctrine on the gender of a noun in Hebrew or Greek is sheer foolishness."

 

[Extraneous]

It's not about arguing, but coming to an knowledge of the truth IMO. And in doing more research I found that in the OT Hebrew, Spirit/Ruwach was Feminine in gender and in the NT Greek Spirit/Pneuma is Neuter in gender. Below I found a comment from someone that really kind of sums it all up at the end I think. What it basically means is a 'male' can have feminine characteristics, and a 'female' can have masculine characteristics. But that has nothing to do with you being a male or female.

"Question: Why is the word in Hebrew for the Holy Spirit a female noun? I am not saying God is a woman or a man. I am saying the word for Holy Spirit in Hebrew is of feminine gender.


Answer: Gender in a noun does not always mean it is referring to a male or a female.


Most words in non-English languages have gender. If in Spanish the word for "fish" is masculine (pescado), does it only refer to a male fish? No, of course not. It just means that the word for fish is expressed in the masculine gender. We English-speakers have taken out many of the gender markers on words. Other than words like "steward" vs."stewardess," most English words have no gender.


The Hebrew word for spirit, "ruach," is a feminine noun. But that simply means the word itself is expressed in that gender. Nothing more is implied.


It does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is feminine. It is simply the way that word is rendered in that language. In the Greek language of the New Testament, the word for "spirit" is "pneuma," which is a neuter noun. Basing a doctrine on the gender of a noun in Hebrew or Greek is sheer foolishness."

Yes, the bible uses analogy all the time, but we cant get fixated on the analogy symbolism and try to read more into it than what is intended. Many times we see analogies being used to teach the same thing. The Spirit is a dove for example, and it may be referred to as water, and maybe even anointing oil as well, if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Extraneous]

Also, because the bible uses so many symbols to teach about things, i dont see how using case gender is helpful in understanding doctrine.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, the bible uses analogy all the time, but we cant get fixated on the analogy symbolism and try to read more into it than what is intended. Many times we see analogies being used to teach the same thing. The Spirit is a dove for example, and it may be referred to as water, and maybe even anointing oil as well, if i'm not amistaken.

I agree, and your very analogies show how pervasive our misconceptions as a church really are. Even I have a personal tag for my vehicle with the picture of a dove on it. But a closer look at the Greek word and its usage in the NT reveals that the Spirit didn't desend AS a dove but LIKE a dove. The Spirit no more looked like a dove than the people looked LIKE sheep when scripture says they were scattered LIKE sheep. But I still sport my tag knowing that some will know what I'm trying to symbolize with the churches misconception.

 

[Extraneous]

Spirit didn't desend AS a dove but LIKE a dove. The Spirit no more looked like a dove than the people looked LIKE sheep when scripture says they were scattered LIKE sheep.

Yes, and Wisdom is only "like" a woman in that it submits to the husband who is God, but Wisdom is not "a" woman.

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't follow, surely you are not claiming the Holy Spirit is feminine??? Tell me NO please tell me.

No. God is Spirit and Spirit does not have a gender.
I was saying that I read somewhere that a word for Holy Spirit - and it may have been a Latin rather than a Greek word - was feminine or used in the feminine form. It's interesting, that's all. Maybe the authors felt that as the whole act of birth, giving birth, nurturing and so on is a feminine one, they would emphasise this aspect of the Spirit by using a feminine word?
I don't know; I was just repeating a comment that I've read, on more than one occasion. If I remember where I read it, I'll look it up and tell you what they say about it.