Are we to judge??

[cactusj]

Do you judge another man's servant?".


Who is the "another man" representive of?

Romans 14
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Would the "another man" be satan?

1 Corinthians 5 NIV
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[BT]

Yes

 

[bleechers]

The context of Romans 14 is "doubtful disputations" that will be handled at the Judgment Seat of Christ. It never refers to doctrine. NEVER.

We are commanded to judge within in terms of doctrine and moral witness.

 

[conservativerepublican]

so if a christian says cussing is OK and you tell them that they are wrong and that is sin is that OK?

 

[BT]

so if a christian says cussing is OK and you tell them that they are wrong and that is sin is that OK?

Would you rephrase this?

 

[conservativerepublican]

Like a Christian cusses and she is trying to justify it by saying that she can ask God for forgiveness and then go do it again right away over and over. You tell them that they are wrong and they need to change. Is that right or wrong?

 

[Gold Dragon]

I guess it depends on what you mean by judge.

Let's hear what Jesus has to say.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Matthew 7:1-5

From this passage I don't hear Jesus saying yes you should judge or no you shouldn't. It is interesting that Jesus used the word brother instead of neighbor or stranger when he talks about judging. Part of this is probably contextual in how the Pharisees of Jesus' time referred to the "brothers" that they were judging out of a "love" for them to correctly follow the Jewish law. This is a short leap to make considering the number of times that Jesus condemns the Pharisees for their legalistic hypocrisy.

I draw from this passage that when we are moved to correct someone out of "love", the first thing we should do is look inward at our own planks, problems and sins that need correction. And with that perspective and the correction of our plank, we can humbly and gently approach our brother who is in need of admonishment and correction with their speck.

I feel that this is consistent with the attitude that Paul takes in the many times he talks about admonishing a brother in the church.

It is easy for Christians to also become like the Pharisees with Paul's teachings if we ignore Jesus' words in this passage.

 

[Unnamed Servant]

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Matthew 7:1-5

Ok so what measure are we being judged by?

Rom. 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law.

So we will be judged by the law which is the Word of God. If we will be judged by the Word of God, that is the measure or same way we should judge others.

Let the Word of God speak and judge not us. Speak the truth in love! For that is how they will know the truth and know that we are Christians.

Love-In-Christ,

Unnamed Servant

 

[Gold Dragon]

Rom. 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law.

So we will be judged by the law which is the Word of God. If we will be judged by the Word of God, that is the measure or same way we should judge others.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I think you are pulling this verse slightly out of context when applying it to this discussion.

Paul is talking about how God will judge those who have sinned under the law as part of his thesis of how Christ's sacrifice saves us whether we are under the law (Jews) or not (Gentiles). That his message of salvation is for all of mankind.

Jesus' passage about judging is talking about how humans judge each other.

 

[Gold Dragon]

As for the word measure, Jesus is not referring to any specific measure but saying that whatever standard you use to judge others (whether it is the Jewish law or something else), that same standard will be used to judge you. He is simply rephrasing and clarifying what he said in the first part of the sentence.

Here is an interesting tidbit that I found in David Guzik's commentary on this verse.

d. With the measure you use, it will be measured back to you: According to the teaching of some rabbis in Jesus' time, God had two measures that He used to judge people. One was a measure of justice and the other was a measure of mercy. Which measure do you want God to use with you? Then you should use that same measure with others.

http://www.studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=7&verse=2#Mt7_2

 

[bleechers]

Do you mind rephrasing that, Laddy?

So we will be judged by the law which is the Word of God.

Well you might be, but not me!

The terrors of law and of God
with me can have nothing to do;
My Savior’s obedience and blood
hide all my transgressions from view.
-A.M. Toplady (A Debtor to Mercy Alone)


Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[MKalashnikov]

Here is an interesting sidebar to this discussion that is somewhat related to the question at hand.

Ever notice how "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged" and The Account of Jesus dealing with the Adulterous woman are the two favorite verses among atheists/skeptics/liberals/ect...???

In the account of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-12), many believe they
have found proof that Jesus “overlooked” the woman’s sin while forbidding the Pharisees to condemn her according to the Law of Moses. Discerning Bible students ought to be greatly interested in the facts of this case, for Jesus’ words and actions in this passage are often misrepresented.

Scripture tells us that Pharisees and scribes were often antagonistic toward Jesus (cf. Matt 22:15-46). John 8 records that the enemies of Jesus had found a woman caught in the very act of adultery (John 8:4). They brought her to the Lord and asked Him for a judgment: “Moses, in the Law, commanded us that such should be stoned, but what do You say?” (John 8:5). Jesus was seemingly in a dilemma: to exercise capital punishment without consent of the Roman authorities would put Jesus in violation of Roman law. On the other hand, if Jesus refused to obey the Law of Moses, how could He still claim to be the Messiah? Thus, the enemies of our Lord thought they had created an unanswerable question. However Jesus answered, they would have the means to rid themselves of Him.

Bible study reveals a number of problems with this case that are not readily evident from John 8:1-12. First, the Law of Moses proscribed capital punishment for both parties in an adulterous union (cf. Lev. 20:10; Deut 22:22). In the case described in John 8, where was the man? The Pharisees claimed to have taken this woman in the act of adultery, and yet they conveniently ignored her partner in the sinful union. Second, notice again that the Law of Moses commanded death to BOTH of the parties involved. If Jesus and the Pharisees were to follow the Law concerning this matter, they could never execute just ONE party and claim that justice had been done! Third, it is possible that the woman’s partner in adultery was among her accusers! Jesus’ only statement to these men was, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7).

Scripture records that they were thus, “convicted by their conscience,” and each Pharisee and scribe quietly slipped away. Based on this statement, there is a distinct possibility that one of the guilty parties in the adulterous union was standing in accusation against the woman. Notice, however, that Jesus was not forbidding all judgment! Because the scribes and Pharisees were interested in vengeance rather than justice, any judgment they pronounced would have been tainted. God expects us to speak out against sin (Jude 3).

As the Lord stood and looked around, He saw that the accusers had all departed. He asked her, “has no one condemned you?” (John 8:10). When the woman answered negatively, Jesus declared, “neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more” (John 8:11). Notice that Jesus did NOT say He overlooked this woman’s sin; rather He was pronouncing judgment according to the Law of Moses.

Now lets look at "Judge not Lest Ye be Judged."

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that you may not be judged.
Mat 7:2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why do you look on the splinter that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the splinter out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 Hypocrite! First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye.

People use Matt 7:1 out of context to justify evil and things that God hates. By ripping verse 1 out of context atheists/skeptics/bible-haters attempt to justify all manner of perversions. Wrongly using Matt 7:1 to justify evil is one of the great deceptions of these end times.

The fact is, This passage doesn't speak of righteous Judgement, It isn't talking about speaking out against sin. It is talking about being a Hypocrite. (Telling someone about a sin but secretly doing that same sin yourself.)

If you judge someone for being a thief, yet secretly are a theif too, the manner in which you judge the thief will come back to judge you. (Your sin will find you out.) The Bible teaches us to judge sin, we are not to tolerate evil, we are to rebuke, reprove and exhort.

You cannot speak out against sin that you do yourself.

This passage in Romans Sheds further light on this situation:

Rom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.
Rom 2:2 But know that the judgment of God is according to truth on those who practice such things.
Rom 2:3 And, O man, the one judging those who do such things, and practice them, do you think this, that you shall escape the judgment of God?

Before a person speaks out against sin, It is very important for a person to first judge themselves to make sure they are not guilty of the same sins.

THAT is what the passages are really talking about. Not what atheists/skeptics/bible-haters want to twist them to mean.

Christians are COMMANDED to speak out against sin.

Amo 5:14 Seek good and not evil, that you may live; and so Jehovah, the God of Hosts, shall be with you, as you have spoken.
Amo 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate. It may be that the Lord Jehovah of Hosts will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.

Joh 7:24 Do not judge according to sight, but judge righteous judgment.

1Ti 5:20 Those who sin, rebuke before all, so that the rest also may fear.

2Ti 4:2 preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.

Titus 2:15 Speak these things, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

The atheists/skeptics/bible-haters think that they can use scripture out of context to silence Christians who oppose any immorality and evil. We as Christians must not be misled by this type of trickery.

 

[bleechers]

Good post... but I think in the church, the rebuking of sin is primarily aimed within.

John 8 also emphasises again that the church is not under the Law. We "put out" sinning brethren... we don't stone them.

 

[TwinCrier]

Fantastic post dittomonkey911!

 

[Unnamed Servant]

Do you mind rephrasing that, Laddy?



Well you might be, but not me!

The terrors of law and of God
with me can have nothing to do;
My Savior’s obedience and blood
hide all my transgressions from view.
-A.M. Toplady (A Debtor to Mercy Alone)


Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

I agree, Christ blood covers the law for Christians. I should have explained myself. Sorry.

Love-In-Christ,

Unnamed Servant