The discussion in this thread has been an interesting one. I find that, as usual, positions are not subject to change but are in fact set in rock.
No one will admit to their errors and believe me there are errors on both sides of the discussion.
These discussions need not go beyond one or two responses as the apostle Paul advised:
Titus 3:
10A man that is an heretick after the
first and second admonition reject;
No need to waste more than the time recommended, as persons are able to see very early, whether or not one is willing to learn or only intends to teach what they believe.
For example:
Scripture clearly tell us that physical circumcision is not a requirement of the new covenant:
Galatians 5:
6For in Jesus Christ
neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
So there should be no discussion about whether or not physical circumcision was to be observed in the new covenant, Paul had this to say about the actual practice:
Galatians 2:
3But
neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
But how can anyone even contemplate circumcision to be more important or more highly regarded than the Sabbath by God.
The same reasons in fact, would make it more highly regarded, than any of the other commands in the ten also. So if this is one of the reasons for dismissing the Sabbath, then it could be used to dismiss the nine which are accepted as part of the new covenant and especially the third command which is not repeated in the scriptures of the apostles.
The fact is that, the Sabbath along with the ten, received very special treatment by God.
They were the only commands spoken by God to the people of Israel and were a complete package, as it is said, at the completion, he spoke no more. He also wrote them on two tables of stone, not once, but twice. The second tables were then placed in the ark of the covenant. (Deuteronomy 5:4,22;10:1-5;Exodus 32:19;34:1-4,28)
How can anyone say they were not specially treated and remain a credible commentator?
The Lord Jesus was asked about eternal life and the encounter was instructive.
The young man asked:
Matthew 19:
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
The Lord’s answer:
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God
: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He being aware of the many commands in the law then asked:
18He saith unto him,
Which?
Did Jesus list out every single command he should observe or did He show the young man the category or type of commands?
The Lord’s answer:
18Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Again, a clear emphasis on the ten commandments. Nothing about circumcision. Could not be that important.
The apostle Paul also showed this inclination when he described a particular command as the first with a promise.
Ephesians 6:
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
We should consider, of which group is this command, the first with a promise?
This statement implies Paul has the ten in mind and hence is endorsing the ten as being applicable to the Christian.
There is more, but these are hints of the continued validity of the ten in its entirety. Every single command does not have to be repeated for the continued relevance of the ten to be seen. It only takes a honest heart which is truly desiring to please the Almighty.
However the Lord in considering the cynics and those who may want to insist that the command must be repeated, left a witness which does declare Sabbath breaking, and also taking the Lords name in vain, as a sin and contrary to the gospel.
In I Timothy 1:8-11 is contained a much misunderstood passage of scripture. The apostle Paul in this passage describes persons who had committed certain sins. It is clear that Paul says those sins he mentioned were, "contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel..."[I Timothy 1:10,11]
Hence these sins must not be found among Christians. Some are easily identified, but others need careful examination to discern the fault Paul is identifying. When this passage is fully understood, it will be seen that Paul is identifying persons who broke the ten commandments, up to commandment 9 and in the same order as they were given in Exodus 20.
THE LIST OF COMMANDMENT BREAKERS.
Lawless - Anomos (Gr.),without law, not having, knowing or acknowledging the law. (Shows opposition to or contempt for the will of God.)
Disobedient - Anupotaktos(Gr.),disobedient to authority(God's)
Ungodly - Asebes(Gr.),Godless, without fear or reverence to God ,one who practices the opposite of what the fear of God demands.
Sinners - Hamartolos(Gr.),a heinous and habitual sinner.
The above persons do not recognize the true God and His laws but have gods of their own. They end up making images in honour of these gods and offer worship to them contrary to the commands of the true God.[See, Romans 1:18-25;Proverbs 16:27;Deuteronomy 13:13;II Corinthians 6:14-18;I Samuel 2:12;Galatians 4:8; N.B. ,ungodly - sons of belial]
The persons above break commandments 1 & 2
Unholy - Anosios(Gr.),opposite of holy, profane.
Profane - Bebelos(Gr.),unhallowed, opposite of sacred, permitted to be trodden.
The above persons disregard or desecrate that which is holy. They take the Lord's name in vain and pollute the Sabbath.[See, Leviticus 18:21;19:12;Matthew 12:5;Nehemiah 13:17;Isaiah 58:13;56:6]
The persons above break commandments 3 & 4.
The rest are fairly straightforward and self-explanatory.
Murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers - Dishonour parents by killing them.
The persons above break commandment 5.
Manslayers - Kill others.
The persons above break commandment 6.
Whoremongers etc. - Commit adultery and various sexual sins.
The persons above break commandment 7.
Men stealers - Steal or kidnap men.
The persons above break commandment 8.
Liars and perjured persons - These persons lie, bear false witness.
The persons above break commandment 9.
Any other thing contrary to sound doctrine would include commandment 10,which must be transgressed before any other sin is committed.[See, James 1:14,15;I Corinthians 10:6;Matthew 15:19]
Hence Paul clearly affirms that the breaking of the ten commandment law is a sin and describes those who disregard the Sabbath as unholy and profane. In this passage, Paul states plainly that it is contrary to sound Christian doctrine, contrary to the gospel, to be unholy and profane ie. to disregard the Sabbath.[I Timothy 1:10,11]
It is no coincidence that this list follows the ten commandments list as was given in Exodus 20. This is stating that Sabbath breaking is a sin as is taking the Lord’s name in vain according to the new covenant.
The treatment of the vision of Peter, in Acts chapter 10, is also indicative of someone, who wrests the scriptures to their own demise. Discussing the scriptures with such persons cannot be profitable.
The dream is clearly interpreted by Peter as referring to humans whom God had called to receive salvation. He said:
Acts 10:
28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;
but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Is it that all men are now to be considered clean? Peter helps us to understand to whom this applies:
Acts 10:
34Then Peter opened
his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But
in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
These are the persons whom God had cleansed and not every single person. Paul confirms this as he declares that persons who are unclean cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger,
nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
Hence unclean persons still exist today and to follow the so called rule about an analogy, then unclean animals still exist today as well. This is confirmed by the words of an angel.
Revelation 18:
2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every
unclean and hateful bird.
The fact is that, the passage is entirely about salvation coming to the Gentiles, and has nothing to do with unclean animals.
If someone cannot see that, then it makes no sense having a discussion about the scriptures with them.
Sorry to be so negative but, I have been there and done that and I hate to see us waste our time. Just post your beliefs and understanding of scripture and move on. No need to discuss the beliefs or understanding of others nor entertain any questions about your beliefs. This will reduce the possibility for contention and would certainly be less stressful.
Or at least, choose carefully, who to have discussions with.