Are we seeing a rise in the lukewarm church?

[Jesusismyking87!!]

I am curious to see the view point of my brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am curious to see the view point of my brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

The Church is such a divided body of people, split up into different denominations and factions, that it is impossible to generalize. Some groups are on fire for God, others are stuck in ceremonial and ritualistic formalism, and others are somewhere in the middle of the two.

 

[Jesusismyking87!!]

The Church is such a divided body of people, split up into different denominations and factions, that it is impossible to generalize. Some groups are on fire for God, others are stuck in ceremonial and ritualistic formalism, and others are somewhere in the middle of the two.

I can def see the view point on this one.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I can def see the view point on this one.

I will say that I am starting to discover what genuine conversion to Christ is, and through that I can see that many professing Christians fall short of it. It is not enough to pray a sinner's prayer and put on the "badge" of Christian profession. There needs to be a total transformation of the person's heart from the world, flesh, and the devil to a full love and commitment to Christ. This is a work of the Holy Spirit and it must be earnestly sought for.

The trouble is that the majority of believers have made a decision for Christ, then said, "I am now converted to Christ", without the actual transformation taking place in them. They would that they are converted "by faith", but it is not faith, but presumption, because the works did not follow the faith and James points out. If a person says they are converted to Christ, then where is the transformtion to go with it? In many professing believers there is no transformation. They still have one foot in the world, practising their favourite sins, and then wondering why things are not working for them.

 

[JohnC2]

My own opinion is that the lukewarm church is dying off.

For example...
Attending church is no longer considered an important thing to signal that you are a socially responsible, caring, moral, ethical person...

Attending church is no longer required as a networking tool for businessmen.

Attending church no longer required for being elected to public office.

Attending church was generally required to meet a “good” spouse....

70 years ago:
A pastor could make a good living in the church.
Going to school to be a pastor was considered a highly respectable career path.
A pastor was considered an important, respectable, and influential member of society.
A pastor was considered politically influential within the community.

As a result - non-believers who attend for the social and resume-building benefits are no longer under social pressure to attend church.

Kids are not compelled to study Bible as public school curriculum - so there is no longer a steady pipeline of kids who are good at Bible to fill Seminary classes...

And as a result of that - the church organization doesn’t have quite the pressure to conciliate high-cash-value non-believers who may push back against a more “serious” consideration of the Scriptures and God over social concerns and maintaining the prestige value of their attendance.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I am curious to see the view point of my brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

It starts with the individual. Is that person lukewarm meaning, useless? Or are they building themselves worthy through the Holy Spirit? Many sit idle in pews and do nothing outside of a congregation. So it is the action of the individual and not the collective that speaks of uselessness. In the case of Laodicea there was an abundance of useless Christians who were stagnant in their walk with Christ.

 

[JohnC2]

Here’s the deal with “Lukewarm churches”.

It’s not that it’s a church which contains pew sitters or people who don’t seem particularly committed to The Gospel.

The specific thing is that they intentionally tamp down zeal.

So for the sake of argument - let’s just say “Hot” means zealously sold out for the gospel conservative Christians

And let’s say that “cold” means zealously sold out for the gospel liberal Christians.

What happens when you mix them in the pews and then get them all wound up with zeal?

They get into fights in the pews and they offend the wealthy and powerful who are using The Church as a vehicle to signal their own goodness, charity, etc.

One solution is to just tamp down all the zeal so folks don’t do that.... That’s Lukewarm..... and Jesus declares this bad. Jesus wants zeal for Him and the gospel.

What The Church found is that you want to keep the zeal - you have to make separate churches which are filled with Zealous “Hot” Christians from Zealous “Cold” Christians (Make it hot or cold). If you mix these sorts - you have to break up too many fights or tamp down the zeal (make them lukewarm.)

Jesus advice is: Don’t mix them. Don’t tamp down the zeal. Let the hot be hot and the cold be cold. Let them all do this for God’s glory.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Left a church that morphed into what I called "performance theology" which seemed more about adoration of who was on stage than about God. I had to vote "yes".

 

[stevevw]

I am curious to see the view point of my brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

I think the modern churches who have all the music and entertainment and media are a worry. After seeing the events of the Hill Song church which I was associated with when I was young I am beginning to think they have gone too far and lost their focus on what should be at the centre of worship. When they begin to get attention and power and money this can cause churches to be swayed away from God. They begin to compromise and worry more about image and reputation and then overlook things.

I am not saying that music and age relevant approaches should not be part of worship. It is a matter of priority. Today charities are having to find innovative ways to raise funding to keep themselves going and help the needy. There is a fine line between charity, non-profit and profit-making. It is when a church becomes so big and it has a lot of staff and overheads it begins to justify the expenses and money making and then loses sight of what is most important. You even see the people that attend are the same with their flash cars and big houses. It becomes a comfortable social club that is still enjoying the riches of this world rather than a sacrificing for Gods work and riches in heaven.

I think this is why many people are actually turning away from the church because it is not really different. It is not representing salvation but is being hypocritical. I would have thought that true followers would be sacrificing certain things and dedicating their lives to helping others. They are out there but you just don't hear about them because they are not chasing the limelight. I agree many religious people have watered down their faith because they do not want to give up too much. As technology is making everything more comfortable it is tempting and easy for people to fall into compromising their beliefs and getting lured into materialism.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I am curious to see the view point of my brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

Absolutely. It has become big business, utilizing corporate techniques...not the gospel.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Are we seeing more of the church turning into profit teaching rather than what the word of God is telling us? As in the church is becoming more of a concert event, and what big name can we bring to the pulpit?

The church service is not the same as the church. The church is the body of believers. Being lukewarm means to resemble your surrounding environment. That means a lukewarm Christian is one that is indistinguishable from a non-Christian. A lukewarm church is one that cannot be identified from the heathens that they mingle with. Yes, the church is becoming lukewarm.

No, the church service is not. It's often the only place that a Christian does not resemble a heathen, and that's the problem. It doesn't matter how they worship or who preaches at the pulpit. What matters is how they live their lives, and that includes every hour of every day, and not just when they're in the service.