Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works?

[aspie3000]

From my understanding the gift of salvation is freely given upon repentance, but to stay in relationship with Christ (salvation) we have to be obedient. So the door opens by repentance, walking through the door on the path to heaven takes faith and obedience. If we are saved it's pure grace and mercy, if we fall away it's because of disobedience.

Edit: When Paul talks about works of the Law, he means the Mosaic Law. No one is righteous by the Mosaic Law. But when we are righteous by faith, we are to live by the Spirit, which means in obedience, for us to make our way home to heaven. When James talks about works he is talking about the obedience part, which is necessary to stay in relationship with Christ (salvation).

"Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works?"

I would say we are saved by faith alone, but that faith isn't counted as faith if there are no works.

This actually makes sense to me.

 

[timothyu]

Who is your loyalty to... the governance of man or the governance (Kingdom) of God? Your actions will show what your mouth may not.

 

[Ing Bee]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

1 John 2:4 - the fruit of the Spirit is only evident in those who have the life of the Spirit.

 

[HTacianas]

It is interesting to me that you put it that way. My point had been that salvation is not independent of works, but is independent of works as far as the cause of our salvation is concerned.

Either way, it is often a challenge to word the point in just the right way so as to make things clear to an inquirer.

This is also another point brought up in Romans that is often missed:

" independent of works as far as the cause of our salvation is concerned"

You are absolutely right that "the cause" of salvation is independent of works, but most pointedly, independent of any previous works. One of the messages of Romans is that salvation is not a reward for anything we may previously have done. That message is repeated in Ephesians:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

The writer states saved, past tense, through faith, not of yourselves. That past tense illustrates that it was not anything the Ephesians had done to merit salvation previously, but was the gift of God. It was not a gift in exchange for anything.

 

[Gottservant]

Confession is the first work.

Works added to confession are for reward, nothing else.

Imitations of confession for the sake of cheating, test both the confession and the reward.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

Is there a need to reconcile? James is saying, "So you believe? Show you believe." In short he is saying, if you're saved it should show. Paul does not disagree with this, it was his practise, however he is defending his gospel of salvation by faith alone that all the doing is not what saves us, it only reveals we are already saved if we believe.

Of course you must also look at the reason for the presentation. Paul withstood a Judaising of Christianity. James did not have this problem in his discussion.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

This is an interesting thread and helps considerably anyone who might be confused by the connection between faith and works. However, throughout the thread there is no examination of what we mean by salvation. Of course we are all Christians therefore we believe in the supernatural, in an after-life, and salvation is eternal, with God, His forgiveness of our sins and His mercy.
But what about salvation in this life, from natural disasters, disease, starvation and war? We do not have to be Christians to do good works as any atheist will tell us.

I think this is a really good point @Norman70 , and it is something that as a Lutheran, I believe is well taught and understood in what is taught in our churches. I've heard accusations leveled at Lutherans of being so centered on salvation by faith alone that no regard is held for the works, but this is simply not true.

As a Lutheran it is drummed into the congregation at every opportunity, that in thought, word and deed we have sinned against God Almighty, and all our best efforts will fail to justify us in the sight of God. But because of His grace and mercy, Christ came to us, giving His life unto death to pay for the sins of the world. It is this work, and this work alone that justifies us in the sight of God Almighty, and is freely given to all who will believe and trust in Him.

The difference I have found as a Lutheran however, is where that leads the Christian. Now as a Christian, I am a child of God, and co heir with Christ, whether it appears that way or not. Now I no longer have to seek to justify myself before God by my works, because I am already justified by the works of Christ that I am clothed in by faith. Now I am completely free to put that energy, time and effort into serving my neighbour. In other words, it is not God who needs our works to ensure we're fit for salvation; but because we are saved through His works on our behalf, we are then to focus our works to the benefit of others, becoming the vessels through which God blesses those around us.

These are the works that are now pleasing to God in our lives, and it is not that we have to seek out some special type of work with a Christian tag on it and labelled as "ministry", but rather to show forth the love of Christ in whatever vocation we find ourselves. It is right there we serve God faithfully, by loving our neighbour, being a good husband, father, mother, employee, employer, student, child, soldier, teacher, minister or whatever other vocation God has led us. In this way, we are free to express our love, devotion and thanksgiving to God for all that He has freely given us, by giving ourselves for the sake of others. We can carry out these works unconditionally, even working side by side with pagans at times, but doing so in the knowledge that we are already children of God, not waiting to find out if we have passed the test at His return.

 

[timothyu]

Works added to confession are for reward, nothing else.

Reward for others than the confessor.

 

[timothyu]

These are the works that are now pleasing to God in our lives

In other words following the will of God rather than the will of man. A side has been chosen.

 

[Albion]

Confession is the first work.

Works added to confession are for reward, nothing else.

Imitations of confession for the sake of cheating, test both the confession and the reward.

Confession is not a "work" in the theological sense. However, I agree--if that was your point in the second sentence--that although we may be saved by Grace acting through Faith in Christ, the good that we do in this life will be rewarded in heaven.

 

[Toro]

Salvation is by faith.
Works are a result of that faith.

Faith without works is dead... it's the Bibles way of saying.... "You can talk the talk, but only if you walk the walk of faith, is it true faith."

The demons possessing the man that were named "Legion" believed that Jesus was the Son of God...... is there a place in Heaven for them?

There is the acceptance that Jesus is the Son of God, there is the choice to follow His example and there is the good that God works through us when we take up our cross and follow Christ, putting the will of the Father as more important than our own will.

 

[paul becke]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

What was good enough for Jesus, is good enough for me. Read Matthew 25 : the only description in the whole by Bible of the Judgment between the Sheep and the Goats - and given by Jesus, himself.

 

[Butch5]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

It's simple. Paul explains how one is justified by faith apart from the Mosaic Law and James explains how one is justified by their works. James 2 is a refutation of Martin Luther's "Faith Alone" doctrine

 

[timothyu]

Is not 'Faith alone' essential to a church that rejected loving neighbour as self in order to rejoin the governments of man and become a world power itself, calling on the people to do good to others while they sit back and govern and profit, becoming an oppressor instead of caring for the oppressed. Caring with lip service does not cut it.

 

[twin.spin]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

How is by understanding what Paul and James are doing.
This is incorrect:

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Rather both are defending against what causes one to lose salvation:

 

[Norman70]

I do not understand these cartoons for two reasons. Firstly Paul is holding a sword labelled grace, not faith. I thought grace was a gift from God but I did not think faith was a gift from God in the same way. I thought faith is something we gain through our freedom of choice, and it is freedom of choice which is another gift of God. We choose to have faith in God, atheists choose not to (they must have faith in something even though they care to deny it), but grace is a free gift for us all whether we accept it or not. If we accept God's grace then faith develops from within us, the Holy Spirit enters us from which we are motivated to do good works. Many atheists do not need that motivation.
Secondly what is the significance of licenciousness spilling the cup of grace?

 

[Albion]

Well, you are getting into the well-travelled faith alone vs faith and works both disagreement, but I agree that the cartoons are not apt. Most obviously, James cannot be represented as advocating salvation earned by good deeds as opposed to salvation through grace.

 

[timothyu]

but grace is a free gift for us all whether we accept it or not. If we accept God's grace then faith develops from within us, the Holy Spirit enters us from which we are motivated to do good works.

Yes Jesus gave us the Kingdom, we can accept it or reject it and remain loyal to the ways of mankind. If we accept it and Jesus as Messiah who saves us from ourselves, then we have faith in Him and His Gospel of the Kingdom If that is our chosen path then we will follow the Kingdom (governance) of God which commands us to love all neighbours as self, living opposite to the traditional ways of man.

Ever notice that those of the world who refuse to switch allegiance, often think they are the same by praising those who do or handing out tax deductible cash for charities while still seeking gain at the expense of others. Is that the same as loving neighbour as self? No. Two different kinds of fruits based on two different wills/motivations..

 

[Norman70]

Continuing to consider the contents of this thread, I am drawn to wonder why we want to be a Christian? Which is our main motivation, eternal salvation or to do good works in this world?
Looking again at the Epistle to the Romans, I have been drawn to Romans 12, and I begin with Verses 9 - 10. Genuine Love is our first criterion on being a Christian, and good works inevitably follow, therefore we cannot be a true Christian without doing good works.
We receive eternal salvation through faith alone, but that does not excuse us from doing good works, unless eternal salvation is all we are concerned about.

 

[paul becke]

I appreciate the sense of that cartoon. Faith and sanctifying grace seem very much like synonyms, do they not ? What, after all, are 'Works', but the inevitable fruit of sanctifying Grace, of true Faith.

At this point in the history of Christianity, in particular, I think of Faith primarily as commitment to Christ ; whereas, in Christ's days on earth, mere credence required commitment, the religious leaders threatening banishment from the Synagogue to those who followed Christ to hear his preaching, etc ; such banishment being no small sanction a small theocratic society.

And surely, this was because in their eyes, what was Jesus but an indigent, self-appointed preacher, more worthy of the designatin, 'vagabond' than 'peripatetic', with his incessant calumnies against his 'betters' : a bumptious peasant, who needed to be 'eliminated'.