Are We Saved as Individuals or Through the Church?

[Dale]

Does God’s plan of salvation work through the church? Or does God’s gift of salvation travel directly from the Throne of God to every man and woman who is part of His Kingdom?

Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation contain letters to seven churches. I have heard the Church of Laodicea mentioned in sermons in several churches. The Laodiceans are warned that they are in danger of being cast out for being lukewarm. Yet the warning to the Laodiceans is not the most negative of the letters to the seven churches.

To the Church at Sardis, Jesus says, “… you are dead.” He doesn’t just say that they are lukewarm, or on probation, or dying, Jesus tells them that they are already dead. In the next verse, he tells them “Wake up,” so this condition is not irreversible. Jesus will accept repentance.

At the same time, Jesus tells us that there are people in this congregation who have kept themselves clean. Perhaps there are whole families among those who have avoided the sins that dragging down the other members at Sardis. We don’t know this for sure.

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled
their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for
they are worthy.
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will
never blot out his name from the book of life, but will
acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Revelation 4-5 NIV

Even if an organized church is dead, there can still be individuals within it, who are alive, their names written in the Book of Life. There are still individuals whose salvation is secure. Interestingly enough, Jesus doesn’t tell them to leave the Church at Sardis. As far as I can tell, Jesus prefers that they remain in the church, setting a good example, as long as possible.

This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.


This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.

 

[Dale]

Here is the full passage.

Re. 3:1 “To the angel of the
church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds
the seven spirits [Or the sevenfold Spirit] of God and the
seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of
being alive, but you are dead.
Re. 3:2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I
have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.
Re. 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard;
obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come
like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to
you.
Re. 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled
their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for
they are worthy.
Re. 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will
never blot out his name from the book of life, but will
acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
--Revelation 3-1-5 NIV

 

[d taylor]

-​

A person only receives God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation through belief/faith in Jesus The Messiah. That can come to an unbeliever from many ways.
The unbeliever may attend a church that correctly teaches how to receive Eternal Life. Or they may read the Gospel of John and find out how to receive Eternal Life. They may be approached on a street, store, etc by a person correctly telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

But because they are a member of a church by no means, means they have receive God's free gift of eternal Life salvation. Church membership is not a condition to receive Eternal Life.

 

[Diamond7]

Does God’s plan of salvation work through the church? Or does God’s gift of salvation travel directly from the Throne of God to every man and woman who is part of His Kingdom?

I believe the atonement is twofold. We are reconciled with the Father AND we are reconciled with each other.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Does God’s plan of salvation work through the church? Or does God’s gift of salvation travel directly from the Throne of God to every man and woman who is part of His Kingdom?

Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation contain letters to seven churches. I have heard the Church of Laodicea mentioned in sermons in several churches. The Laodiceans are warned that they are in danger of being cast out for being lukewarm. Yet the warning to the Laodiceans is not the most negative of the letters to the seven churches.

To the Church at Sardis, Jesus says, “… you are dead.” He doesn’t just say that they are lukewarm, or on probation, or dying, Jesus tells them that they are already dead. In the next verse, he tells them “Wake up,” so this condition is not irreversible. Jesus will accept repentance.

At the same time, Jesus tells us that there are people in this congregation who have kept themselves clean. Perhaps there are whole families among those who have avoided the sins that dragging down the other members at Sardis. We don’t know this for sure.

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled
their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for
they are worthy.
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will
never blot out his name from the book of life, but will
acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Revelation 4-5 NIV

Even if an organized church is dead, there can still be individuals within it, who are alive, their names written in the Book of Life. There are still individuals whose salvation is secure. Interestingly enough, Jesus doesn’t tell them to leave the Church at Sardis. As far as I can tell, Jesus prefers that they remain in the church, setting a good example, as long as possible.

This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.


This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He makes His Home in each and every beliver through His Holy Spirit by regeneration. The Church is the Body of Christ and encompasses all those who are in Him. Blessings.

 

[Dale]

-​

A person only receives God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation through belief/faith in Jesus The Messiah. That can come to an unbeliever from many ways.
The unbeliever may attend a church that correctly teaches how to receive Eternal Life. Or they may read the Gospel of John and find out how to receive Eternal Life. They may be approached on a street, store, etc by a person correctly telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

But because they are a member of a church by no means, means they have receive God's free gift of eternal Life salvation. Church membership is not a condition to receive Eternal Life.

I certainly agree. One of the reasons I started this thread is that so many people put a lot of emphasis on finding the right church, or a church that has all the right doctrines.

Jesus did tell His followers to be baptized. Baptism can only be done through a church. I don't know how to do that as an individual.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I certainly agree. One of the reasons I started this thread is that so many people put a lot of emphasis on finding the right church, or a church that has all the right doctrines.

Jesus did tell His followers to be baptized. Baptism can only be done through a church. I don't know how to do that as an individual.

What verse are you referring to given the bold and underlined above.

 

[Dale]

What verse are you referring to given the bold and underlined above.

Baptism is a public proclamation of faith in Jesus Christ and in the Trinity. That's why it makes sense to do it in a church, or in a church service. During the Ministry of Jesus, those who came forward were baptized by one of the Apostles, and that was a public event. We don't have Apostles today, so being baptized in a church is the norm.

I know of a case where a man was baptized in a lake by an ordained minister. That wasn't exactly a church service but it was done under the authority of a church.

Sorry for the delay in replying.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We commonly baptise in the sea over here as a public witness.

By the way - to add weight to your OP the apostle Paul was converted in isolation from the church.

 

[Lost Witness]

I was baptized by the LORD in a backyard in prayer

 

[fhansen]

Does God’s plan of salvation work through the church? Or does God’s gift of salvation travel directly from the Throne of God to every man and woman who is part of His Kingdom?

Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation contain letters to seven churches. I have heard the Church of Laodicea mentioned in sermons in several churches. The Laodiceans are warned that they are in danger of being cast out for being lukewarm. Yet the warning to the Laodiceans is not the most negative of the letters to the seven churches.

To the Church at Sardis, Jesus says, “… you are dead.” He doesn’t just say that they are lukewarm, or on probation, or dying, Jesus tells them that they are already dead. In the next verse, he tells them “Wake up,” so this condition is not irreversible. Jesus will accept repentance.

At the same time, Jesus tells us that there are people in this congregation who have kept themselves clean. Perhaps there are whole families among those who have avoided the sins that dragging down the other members at Sardis. We don’t know this for sure.

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled
their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for
they are worthy.
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will
never blot out his name from the book of life, but will
acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Revelation 4-5 NIV

Even if an organized church is dead, there can still be individuals within it, who are alive, their names written in the Book of Life. There are still individuals whose salvation is secure. Interestingly enough, Jesus doesn’t tell them to leave the Church at Sardis. As far as I can tell, Jesus prefers that they remain in the church, setting a good example, as long as possible.

This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.


This passage tells us that salvation is directly from God to every Christian. A corrupt church does not stop an individual from being saved.

We’re saved by God, of course. The church simply tells us about Him, holding and conveying the message, His word.

 

[anetazo]

You need the holy spirit. Isaiah chapter 29 and first Corinthians chapter 2, many people have spirit of stupor for their protection. The wicked dont have spirit of slumber. God's Election have holy spirit. Revelation chapter 7, the election have seal of God. Romans chapter 8 and first Peter chapter 1 to document, the election have holy spirit. Isaiah chapter 29, and chapter 6, some people have spirit of stupor. Psalm chapter 49;19, the majority will be taught during millennium. The spirtual blinders come off when Jesus returns 7th, this begins the millennium, documentation, revelation chapter 20.