Are we living in the last days?

[LittleLambofJesus]

My Link?

So I take it you don't believe in Sola Scriptura then?

Full Preterist believe in Solo Scripture.
I am on the verge of becoming a FP because of the way I view the OT [Ezekiel/Daniel]and NT [Olivet Discourse] and Revelation scriptures.
I can practically harmonize all of Luke 19/21 with Revelation, and in fact, his Gospel is the stand-alone one I go to for Revelation now.
There are some who actually believe Luke 21 is 70ad Jerusalem [which is indisputable] and that Matt 24 and Mark 13 are still yet future for the Jews.

Check out these threads and I wouldn't mind some help from fellow Preterists on these:

LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]
LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]....

There appears to be a controversy concerning the Olivet Discourse and the Gospel of Luke 21 being different.
Here are just a few links concerning the Mount of Olives discourse, where some say that because Luke 21 doesn't mention the the MoO, that it is different than Matt 24/Mark 13, and concerns the destruction in 70ad whereas Matthew and Mark are future.

The "PAROUSIA" in Matthew 24

Dave Watchman said: ↑
There you go. That means Matthew 24 is not the same thing as Luke 21. Luke 21 was inside the Temple in the morning. Jesus was sitting down inside a place called the "women's" court. He had to "look up' to see the poor old widow put money in the treasury which was located around the outside perimeter of that court.....................

The Temple Discourse in Luke 21 (not the Olivet Discourse)

It is obvious that Luke wanted to focus on the theme of Jerusalem’s future destruction by highlighting this little clip in Jesus’ sorrows. Luke’s presentation of the answer to the question of the destruction of the temple further clarifies what Jesus was weeping about as He beheld Jerusalem.
The second difference (which actually comes first) is that there is no mention of the discourse beginning on the Mount of Olives in Luke.
Matthew 24-25 and Mark 13 both contain a discourse which occurs on the Mount of Olives, hence the name, the Olivet Discourse. Luke 21, while containing some of the same aspects, is significantly different from Matthew and Mark.............

 

[Fascinated With God]

Yes, sort of. We are near the end of the 1st tribulation before the 1st resurrection of 144,000 and the 2nd Coming followed by a 1000 years of peace. Then there is a 2nd Tribulation before everyone is Resurrected.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

N P.............


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[parousia70]

Yes, sort of. We are near the end of the 1st tribulation before the 1st resurrection of 144,000 and the 2nd Coming followed by a 1000 years of peace. Then there is a 2nd Tribulation before everyone is Resurrected.

When you say we are “Near” all those things do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they said it? Or do you mean something different?

 

[Fascinated With God]

When you say we are “Near” all those things do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they said it? Or do you mean something different?

Something different. In the 60's they called it "Future Shock". The apocalypse is sped up because civilization would not survive if it dragged out too long.

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.
"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:21-22​

 

[parousia70]

Something different. In the 60's they called it "Future Shock". The apocalypse is sped up because civilization would not survive if it dragged out too long.

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.
"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:21-22​

Ok so when the apostles taught their flocks that these things were “near, at hand, and about to take place” how do you suppose they understood that?

What do you suppose they apostles meant?

Is there a reason you are aware of to drive home the idea of nearness (over 100 verses in the NT) if it really wasn’t true?

 

[parousia70]

Full Preterist believe in Solo Scripture.

Well, except for the fact that they are automatically appealing to an authority outside of scripture to tell them which books belong in the canon.

But that’s a topic for another thread

 

[Erik Nelson]

I would agree. I think all the 12 plus Paul died (were murdered) before 70AD. I also think that Paul is talking about John in 2Cor 12:1-5. He certainly wasn't talking about himself - just reading it will prove that. If it was John, in the Spirit, at Patmos, that would mean he wrote Revelation in 43AD, 14 years before 2Cor (vs 2). This would make a lot more sense, because of early references, mainly in Paul's Acts epistles, to things in Revelation, like the last trump (7th trump of Revelation). These things needed no further explanation by Paul, since everybody had already read Revelation and knew of what he spoke.

that could explain why the Greek of revelation is so rough and unpracticed, as if it was John's first writing

 

[Erik Nelson]

Citation?
Link?

I believe as this scholar does, that it was written about 65 AD:
Dating the New Testament - John

the link so right there you just quoted it

in any case all agree 1 John was written after revelation

so the last hour in first John. references the last hour of the beast in Revelation.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Used only 1 time in the Gospels

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)

Luke 2:32
a light to the uncovering<602> of nations, and the glory of Thy people Israel.'

Revelation Chapter 1 Verses

...........................................CHAPTER 1

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

Revelation 1:1
An unveiling/revealing<602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to the bond-servants of Him which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies-it, commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John.
Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
apokaluyiV ihsou cristou hn edwken autw o qeoV deixai toiV douloiV autou a dei genesqai en tacei
kai eshmanen aposteilaV dia tou aggelou autou tw doulw autou iwannh

602. apo-kalupsis from 601;
disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.
601. apokalupto from 575 and 2572;
to take off the cover, i.e. disclose:--reveal.
575. apo a primary particle;
"off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative)
2572. kalupto akin to 2813 and 2928;
to cover up (literally or figuratively):--cover, hide.

I think Calypto means veil. To cover with a veil. So that apocalypse means to unveil. Revelation is the unveiling of. future events. I think it references. The unveiling of the temple at the crucifixion. When the veil of the temple was rent.

 

[claninja]

There have been many signs over the last 100 years that Jesus's return might be closer than we all think. How close? I dont know. Stephen Hawking posted a quote that he thought the world might end within the next 100 years because of resources depleteing and whatnot. But if Jesus comes back in the next 100 years im ready and I'm not worried at all. Come Lord Jesus! There have been many signs that Jesus's return is near though. Gun violence, earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, a war that's been going on for 17 years now that will seemingly never end and might escalate into ww3. It seems like ww3 is just around the corner and many fear it will be a nuclear war of deadly porportions. The president is already talking about war with North Korea because they refuse to disarm their nuclear weapons and keep threatening nuclear war against America. I mean ww3 is only a matter f time.

I mean scientists can't figure out why were getting so many earthquakes. But followers of Christ know why. Its because Jesus's return is getting closer and closer. How can the world not see this? Anyway... are we living in the last days? Why or why not?

The last days are long past. The last days occurred during the disciple's generation:
Acts 2:16-17 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
1 Corinthians 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come
1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
James 5:8-9 also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door


The New Jerusalem/Church is the bride of Christ
Revelation 21:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb
Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

The foundation of the New Jerusalem/Church is built on the foundation of the apostles
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

The New Jerusalem/Church is where God dwells
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God
Ephesians 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.


The New Jerusalem/Church is the place of God's Throne/Footstool. It is where he dwells with his people forever, whether they are on earth (footstool) or in heaven (throne)
Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. THIS IS WHERE I WILL LIVE AMONG THE ISRAELITES FOREVER.

Acts 7:48-49 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: “ ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.What kind of house will you build for me?

 

[Erik Nelson]

The last days are long past. The last days occurred during the disciple's generation:
Acts 2:16-17 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
1 Corinthians 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come
1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
James 5:8-9 also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door


The New Jerusalem/Church is the bride of Christ
Revelation 21:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb
Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

The foundation of the New Jerusalem/Church is built on the foundation of the apostles
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

The New Jerusalem/Church is where God dwells
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God
Ephesians 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.


The New Jerusalem/Church is the place of God's Throne/Footstool. It is where he dwells with his people forever, whether they are on earth (footstool) or in heaven (throne)
Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. THIS IS WHERE I WILL LIVE AMONG THE ISRAELITES FOREVER.

Acts 7:48-49 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: “ ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.What kind of house will you build for me?

LAST DAYS IDENTIFIED by Don K Preston agrees with you completely..

I personally think that the only 2 exceptions are 2 Peter 3 and 2 Timothy 3.

Both of those letters were the last ones ever written by Saint Peter and Paul in this life on this world. So they tried to prepare their followers for the grand sweep of all future Earth time until the Second Coming.

Unlike all other usages of the term "last days". Saints Peter and Paul there use the term in the FUTURE tense. "In the last days such and such WILL be such and such WILL happen"

2 Peter 3 is especially clear. Saint Peter references everything from ancient prophecies 1000 years old. In his day to the possibility of a far future thousands of years from his time.

Genesis 49. Deuteronomy, 4. Deuteronomy, 32.
Moses and the profits for told the last days of the Old Covenant age before the coming of Shiloh, the MESSIAH...

Likewise, Saints Peter and Paul. Apparently. Referenced prophecy the last days of. The Christian age on Earth. Before the Second coming, the coming of GOD on the Great White throne of judgment.

 

[SkyWriting]

There have been many signs over the last 100 years that Jesus's return might be closer than we all think. How close? I dont know. Stephen Hawking posted a quote that he thought the world might end within the next 100 years because of resources depleteing and whatnot.

He got that one right.
Stephen Hawking: Visionary physicist dies aged 76

 

[claninja]

LAST DAYS IDENTIFIED by Don K Preston agrees with you completely..

I personally think that the only 2 exceptions are 2 Peter 3 and 2 Timothy 3.

Both of those letters were the last ones ever written by Saint Peter and Paul in this life on this world. So they tried to prepare their followers for the grand sweep of all future Earth time until the Second Coming.

Unlike all other usages of the term "last days". Saints Peter and Paul there use the term in the FUTURE tense. "In the last days such and such WILL be such and such WILL happen"

2 Peter 3 is especially clear. Saint Peter references everything from ancient prophecies 1000 years old. In his day to the possibility of a far future thousands of years from his time.

Genesis 49. Deuteronomy, 4. Deuteronomy, 32.
Moses and the profits for told the last days of the Old Covenant age before the coming of Shiloh, the MESSIAH...

Likewise, Saints Peter and Paul. Apparently. Referenced prophecy the last days of. The Christian age on Earth. Before the Second coming, the coming of GOD on the Great White throne of judgment.

In the last days "there will comes times of difficulty". Paul is believed to have died some time before 68 AD. Paul uses some pretty generic language to describe the actions of sinful men. These types of people have always existed, so this doesn't really help us define the "last days".

Interesting to note, Paul does use present tense verbs to describe their actions:

2 timothy 3:1-8 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (present tense) the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith

Additionally, Peter uses generic language to describe "scoffers" that will come in the last days. There were scoffers during the time of the disciples and there have been scoffers for the last 2000 years.
2 Peter 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

Jude quotes Peter, and notice the present tense verb "cause" division.
Jude 1:17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause (present tense) divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Notice there were scoffers during the 1st century:
Acts 17:31-32 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some scoffed.

Additionally, in his previous epistle, he stated the "end of all things is at hand".
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so that you can pray.

 

[Erik Nelson]

In the last days "there will comes times of difficulty". Paul is believed to have died some time before 68 AD. Paul uses some pretty generic language to describe the actions of sinful men. These types of people have always existed, so this doesn't really help us define the "last days".

Interesting to note, Paul does use present tense verbs to describe their actions:

2 timothy 3:1-8 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (present tense) the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith

Additionally, Peter uses generic language to describe "scoffers" that will come in the last days. There were scoffers during the time of the disciples and there have been scoffers for the last 2000 years.
2 Peter 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

Jude quotes Peter, and notice the present tense verb "cause" division.
Jude 1:17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause (present tense) divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Notice there were scoffers during the 1st century:
Acts 17:31-32 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some scoffed..

astute observation!

the PRESENT tense usage conveys the timeless truth of their words, ALWAYS true

the future tense usage conveys that that general truth will be particularly acute in the very last days?

Additionally, in his previous epistle, he stated the "end of all things is at hand".

1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so that you can pray.

= James 5:8-9 = Matthew 24:33 or so

James and 1 Peter, writing circa 62ad, were quoting Jesus' Olivet discourse about the then imminent destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad

 

[NeedyFollower]

In the last days "there will comes times of difficulty". Paul is believed to have died some time before 68 AD. Paul uses some pretty generic language to describe the actions of sinful men. These types of people have always existed, so this doesn't really help us define the "last days".

Interesting to note, Paul does use present tense verbs to describe their actions:

2 timothy 3:1-8 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (present tense) the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith

Additionally, Peter uses generic language to describe "scoffers" that will come in the last days. There were scoffers during the time of the disciples and there have been scoffers for the last 2000 years.
2 Peter 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

Jude quotes Peter, and notice the present tense verb "cause" division.
Jude 1:17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause (present tense) divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Notice there were scoffers during the 1st century:
Acts 17:31-32 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some scoffed.

Additionally, in his previous epistle, he stated the "end of all things is at hand".
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so that you can pray.

Yes ..people have always been like this and also those who professed faith also fell into this . One significant difference which is fairly recent ....this type of behavior in believers was often hidden ..now it is open and applauded . " Have a form of godliness " so these are not atheist . Also , with the double wammy of TV and Internet ( Iphones ) ...very little time to contemplate without input from others ... Education has caused us to be amazingly clever ....and almost devoid of humility ...because of great wealth ..even children are running things ..( Mark Zukerberg ) ..No this is incredibly different than in Paul's days and the next 1900 years .