Are we inside of God?

[Apex]

God is omnipresent. There is no place in all of existence that God is not fully present. Since existence is absolute and eternal, its contrast "non-existence" cannot ever exist. There is no such thing as true utter nothingness. You cannot even imagine it! Even in a perfect vacuum, there is space and time.

Since there is nothing outside of God because "outside of God" does not exist. This means everything in existence, including us, must be inside of God. A better way of saying this might be: we are surrounded by God.

Someone once asked me, "What do you think the universe is expanding into?" I answered, "Certainly not into nothing!" God has no size, he is able to absorb an infinite amount of infinitely expanding universes if he so desired.

This idea is easily mistaken for pantheism. However, I do not think this idea requires an impersonal God or that all substance within existence to be divine.

What does everyone think?

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

Jesus himself can answer you that question in John 14:20 .

 

[Tolworth John]

God is omnipresent. There is no place in all of existence that God is not fully present

But God is outside of time and space. The universe is his creation, so it follows that God cannot fit into th universe, but his spirit is everywhere.



QUOTE="Apex, post: 71637217, member: 394045"]Since existence is absolute and eternal, its contrast "non-existence" cannot ever exist.[/QUOTE
Only God is eternal, all matter will one day cease to be.

That said, Yes we are surrounded by God and his love is seen in his continuing of the universe and in his gift of his Son.

 

[Apex]

But God is outside of time and space. The universe is his creation, so it follows that God cannot fit into the universe, but his spirit is everywhere.

I'm not sure if I follow. What do you think it means that God is "outside" of time and space? Surely, he is not subject to time and space, but God certainly acts within time and space all the time.

 

[Shempster]

Your perspective sounds alot like the Tao Te Ching. It seems to suggest that God's divine nature is in all of us. Not saying we are gods here, but so far as His nature, I think all of us had it as Children.
The open, trusting, no agenda and no ego to support nature of a child. And didn't Jesus say we must become like a little child?
But then we have this body that has a propensity towards sin. Its like a second nature to us. We really can't help it. Being corrupted by society doesn't help things. Plus the whole onslaught of hormones that makes kids all wacky.
So salvation seems to be about denying the flesh and minding the spirit, or the divine nature of God that we all have access to. All we need to do is be like Jesus.
I really kind of agree with this part of it.

 

[Tolworth John]

I'm not sure if I follow. What do you think it means that God is "outside" of time and space? Surely, he is not subject to time and space, but God certainly acts within time and space all the time.

God made time, space, matter and energy. As it is his creation he cannot be inside it.
As all of creation is his, God can act as his decides to in it.

 

[SPF]

But God is outside of time and space. The universe is his creation, so it follows that God cannot fit into th universe, but his spirit is everywhere.

This really depends on who you ask. Dr.William Lane Craig, one of the leading, if not the leading Christian philosopher in our day and age would suggest that "God ought to be considered as timeless sans creation and temporal subsequent to creation."

For a more detailed read on the subject, click THIS LINK.

A better way of saying this might be: we are surrounded by God.

I think this is certainly the better way of saying this. God is independent of His creation. God is the only eternal and divine being. However, God's presence is certainly known throughout the hemisphere of existence because God is omnipresent. Interestingly, even if God was not omnipresent, due to the fact that He is omniscient, He may as well be omnipresent because God is presently aware and has knowledge of everything at all times. So even if God were not omnipresent, nothing could be hidden from Him due to his omniscience.

 

[Noxot]

I really don't know anywhere else we could be. the jews say that God creates by emptying himself. It sounds sane to hold to panentheism.

pan·en·the·ism
paˈnenTHēˌizəm/
noun

1. the belief or doctrine that God is greater than the universe and includes and interpenetrates it.

 

[Apex]

I really don't know anywhere else we could be. the jews say that God creates by emptying himself. It sounds sane to hold to panentheism.

pan·en·the·ism
paˈnenTHēˌizəm/
noun

1. the belief or doctrine that God is greater than the universe and includes and interpenetrates it.

I tend to agree. When someone says that God created out of nothing. I often wonder if they have thought through what this actually means. There is no "nothing" to create "out of". In the beginning, the universe (perhaps all of "creation") didn't exist, but in its place wasn't utter nothingness. God was there.

 

[SPF]

I tend to agree. When someone says that God created out of nothing. I often wonder if they have thought through what this actually means. There is no "nothing" to create "out of". In the beginning, the universe (perhaps all of "creation") didn't exist, but in its place wasn't utter nothingness. God was there.

I suspect most people have thought through what that actually means. In fact, one of the strongest arguments for God's existence, The Cosmological Argument is based upon this.

 

[Apex]

I suspect most people have thought through what that actually means. In fact, one of the strongest arguments for God's existence, The Cosmological Argument is based upon this.

I think I understand what you are suggesting. A "cause" is not "nothing". However, 'creation out of nothing' is a common Christian saying. There are many who say God created ex nihilo.

Ex nihilo - Wikipedia
Ex nihilo (Christian supporting arguments) - Wikipedia

However, some believe that ex nihilo is impossible. Creation was out of something instead - this is the position that better fits the cosmological argument. This something or "first cause" would be beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, and spaceless (sizeless). Which obviously fit the attributes of God.

Ex nihilo (Christian opposing arguments) - Wikipedia

 

[SPF]

The problem with suggesting that God did not create the universe Ex nihilo would necessarily mean that something has existed that is independent of God for as long as God has. But Scripture teaches that God created everything, so God must have created the universe Ex nihilo. If He didn't, then something (matter) would also be eternal.

 

[Anto9us]

"In Him we live and move and have our being."

Paul quoted a Greek poet in this -- whether it was Menander, Aratus, or Epimenides -- I don't know.

Of course we are inside of God. And hopefully He is inside of us too.

 

[Anto9us]

Act 17:28

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[Apex]

The problem with suggesting that God did not create the universe Ex nihilo would necessarily mean that something has existed that is independent of God for as long as God has.

No. It just means something existed before the universe was created. This something doesn't have to be independent of God.

 

[Anto9us]

God could have made the universe out of Himself -- no Bible verse says he didn't -- just as no Bible verse says he made it out of nothing.

 

[SPF]

No. It just means something existed before the universe was created. This something doesn't have to be independent of God.

Then what is it? If it had a beginning, then it is contingent, and God created everything. If God didn't create it, then it, like God, is non-contingent, but only God is eternal.

 

[SPF]

God could have made the universe out of Himself

What does that actually mean?

 

[Anto9us]

We live and move and have our being in the universe, and Acts 17:28 says we live and move and have our being in God, I can't explain it

 

[Apex]

Then what is it? If it had a beginning, then it is contingent, and God created everything. If God didn't create it, then it, like God, is non-contingent, but only God is eternal.

I'm saying that "something" is God. Hence the title of this thread.