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Featured ARE WE IGNORANT?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by James Honigman, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. James Honigman

    James Honigman Active Member Supporter

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    Back at you Mark. Thanks so much for your kindness.
     
  2. James Honigman

    James Honigman Active Member Supporter

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    Sorry Keras, but post #79 is too much for me to answer to. I guess I am lazy. I did enjoy this post though. James.
     
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  3. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Those who expound Bible Prophecy, are part of the current generation which is mainly corrupt and ungodly. [as in the days of Noah]

    They try to convince us that the cumulative research over the last century now yields a better understanding of the things of God. Conversely, our ancient Scriptures themselves do not say there will be an increase in understanding and discernment during the end times. The Bible prophets say that many will be deceived and will follow false teachings and only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. 1 Cor 3:18-20

    Matthew 11:25 I thank You, Father for hiding the truth from the wise and revealing it to the simple.



    At the time of Jesus, the people the Lord selected to convey His Words to the rest of human kind failed to understand God’s plan and were deceived to the degree that they arrange to brutally execute the Son of God who loved them.

    He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isaiah 53:3

    Instead of telling us that mankind will progressively draw near to God because of our ability to assimilate and wisely apply knowledge to our circumstances, the Word of God tells us the Christians will repeat the ancient sin of Israel, and embrace lies.

    2 Timothy 4:3-4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-10 For this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….because they received not the love of the truth.

    Theological error isn’t random. In this regard, the Greek word in our New Testament, rendered delusion, and it is the Lord Himself who delivers that delusion to those He deems appropriate.



    This means it is a deluding error, which the Lord Himself sends, to those who want - no: who demand God to remove them, before any holy discipline; Hebrews 12:4-13 and they reject the Spirit of humbleness which would draw them to the truth.

    This fulfils an Old Testament prophecy, which is in the context of the end times:

    I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. Isaiah 66:4



    The reason the Lord places a delusion upon people, is because they practice insincere worship and maintain wrong doctrines, Isaiah 58:5 and have confused themselves by believing fiction and false teachings. Isaiah 29:9-12
     
  4. Deus Vult!

    Deus Vult! Active Member

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    Thus I called it "willful ignorance" or "culpable ignorance". Culpable, meaning that they will have to give an account for it. I referred to it as a sin. That should tell you how I consider the matter of people rejecting the absolute Truth of Jesus Christ and all that He did and spoke...
    That said however there is an ignorance from which there is no condemnation. Obviously we could most easily see this sort of ignorance among the infants, among the mentally impaired, or among those who simply have never heard the Apostolic Gospel preached by the faithful Catholic Christian.

    We are all - everyone of us - on a sliding scale of beliefs that are either grounded on the authentic Apostolic Teaching or unfortunately on erroneous Christological beliefs. The whole reason that Our Lord gave to us the amazing gift of the Sacred Scripture and the Tradition of the Church is to keep us in the "fullness of the truth". To keep us at the apex of true Christian belief, free from all error and heresy...
    Unfortunately many are running in the rebellion of Korah, relying on private interpretation of Scripture, cherry picking verses out of the Bible, cherry picking "pastors", cherry picking "churches".

    But we Catholics believe in the Nicene Creed. We believe that the Church has four marks. These are that she is: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. There are not many churches. There is only One. The One Church is Holy, often times holiness is that which is attacked by the world the most. Just look at Jesus Himself. So the fact that secret societies such as the Freemasons or other groups such as communists or atheists go to great lengths to infiltrate and destroy the Catholic Church proves that she is Holy.
    The fact that the satanic cults or the occult in general mock everything in the Catholic liturgy in their own "black masses" proves that there is a "white Mass" or Holy Mass. The Church is universal, it is Catholic, it is the same everywhere. The Church is Apostolic. The faithful cling for dear life to the authentic Apostolic Teaching that has been handed down to this very day.
    Peace of Jesus Christ be with you.
     
  5. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    meaning
     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    yes indeed... I began to pray around 1975..... (I am sixty)... and my entire life has been transformed by prayer!
     
  7. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi dale,

    It's actually even more fantastic than you even imagine. You wrote:
    I'm not sure where you get the 400 year figure. According to the Scriptures, Noah lived 350 years after the flood. He was 600 years old at the time of the flood and the Scriptures account that his entire life was 950 years. Shem had Arphaxad 2years after the flood. If we follow out the generations listed in Genesis 11, Abram was born 292 years from the flood. Noah was still alive when Abram was born.

    How fast any population builds, depends on how fruitful the generations are. Let's say that the first man has 3 sons who marry and begin families of their own. By the time the first generational span passes (This does allow that Shem, Ham and Japheth were all fruitful adults after the flood. The Scriptures say that Shem was 100 years old when the flood waters receded.) Japheth is accounted as having 7 sons. Ham had 4 and Shem had 5. The second generational span may well have had 16 fathers who may have also had 80 sons. Those 80, 400 sons. We're just now passing the 100 year mark. Those 400 bring about 2,000 sons. The 2,000 sons bring on 10,000 sons and those 10,000 bring about 50,000 sons. Those 50,000 bring about 250,000 and that 250,000 bring about 1,000,000 sons. Sometime during this, God scatters them all over the earth from the plain of Shinar where they attempted to build the tower of Babel. But suffice to say that it's possible that within 300 years, more than 2 million people can be born when we add in the daughters that were also being born to these fathers.

    I contend that in an agrarian population, a doubled number in each generation is likely expected. Noah and his wife had 3 sons. The next generation had 16 sons. If each of those 16 also had, on average, 5 sons just as their fathers had, then the next generation would have 80 sons. Now, I'm not saying this is exactly how it all happened as the Scriptures don't give us any information past the first generation or two beyond the three sons of Noah. But, neither do I think that we can categorically limit the population of the earth to just 300,000 at the time that Abram was born to Terah. Just think 300 years ago we weren't even a nation yet. A lot can happen in 300 years.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  8. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Ted,

    You're assuming that all those sons and daughters had an unlimited food supply. This isn't the case with primitive peoples that we know. You also assume that there is no disease, that there are no epidemics. Yet before modern medicine, huge numbers of children died before they ever became adults.

    You also assume that there is no war. Yet Abraham lived in a world where there was war. Abraham went to war to free Lot, for instance.
     
  9. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    It can be assumed that there was an unlimited food supply because our Father would have blessed the peoples in order that they could be fruitful an multiply. The Earth had been cleansed by the flood. All of the trees would bear bountifully of their fruit. Can you imagine how big those grapes were in Noah's vineyard? The air was pure and so was the water. Noah lived another 350 years after the flood.Sickness was not too much of a problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  10. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi dale,

    Again, I don't know where you get your information from. I don't see any reason why people would have ever not had a 'satisfactory' food supply. The exception being in times of drought. I don't think it would have to be unlimited. The U.S. doesn't have an unlimited food supply now and we feed 330 million people. I don't know any primitive people, myself. While I wasn't a particularly exceptional student in my school days, I don't remember there being a lot of times that there were proven food shortages in my history or social studies classes.

    I agree with handmaid, that God created the earth to sustain the life of man and has always pretty much blessed the earth with the ability to provide food to support people.

    As far as 'huge' numbers of children dying before they became adults, I'm inclined to believe that you've found some sort of false narrative to support that understanding. It's goes hand in hand with the one that says that 'primitive' people didn't read or write. The main difference between your understanding of the history of mankind and mine, is that I don't believe that there ever was such a thing as 'primitive' people. Yes, there were pockets of people that started out as small communities as mankind moved about the earth, but the people who remained in the area of the middle east and Egypt, where God's word says that mankind began, I think they were always reasonably intelligent people. No, they couldn't build bridges and spaceships, but they could read and write and communicate as they lived their lives day to day.

    Your basic foundation of what it was like for mankind 10,000 years ago stems from your basic understanding of man being some evolutionary creature who started out as some 'idiot' ape like creature that then became the wise and dapper dressed man of today. My basic foundation of mankind is that God created the first man and He gave him (man) certain wisdom and understanding even from the day of his creation. Just as God seems to have given birds the innate knowledge to fly south from cold weather; salmon the innate knowledge to swim upstream to its spawning grounds.

    It's merely a basic foundational difference in our understanding of 'how' mankind got to this day in 2020 where we sit at computers and converse with one another.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  11. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    HI dale,

    Let's consider the day of God's judgment. The Scriptures tell us that everyone will be raised out of their graves. Do you believe that on that day we're going to look around and see Adam and his first generations standing half bent over with their knuckles dragging the ground? Jumping around like excited chimpanzees scratching at their armpits and screeching?

    Just curious how you think that you and I are going to be different from Adam or Eve?

    Or, do you believe that Adam will be able to look at Eve and say in some intelligent language, "You are bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." That Eve will understand those words and be able to respond, similarly back to his statement? Or, do you believe that Adam will look at Eve and make some unintelligible guttaral sounds of "Oooh, ooh, ooh...ooh,ooh?" And Eve will likewise respond similarly.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  12. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    wh
    whats th sixth millennium
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    From the time of Adam and Eve there were supposed to be 6000 years and then Messiah Yeshua - Jesus (Yeshua is just the way that John / Yohannan would probably pronounce the name Jesus which is the Greek pronunciation of his name)...... would intervene in human affairs and begin to take over.

    Former Skeptic Howard Storm was shown in 1985 that God wanted to make this world utopian within two centuries.

    Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

     
  14. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    It seems it is hard for some people today to believe that the ancient peoples were not bereft of knowledge. But I blame Hollywood for the distortion.Pre-flood civilization was highly advanced as evidenced by the architecture and artifacts that archeologists have discovered. I often point out that Noah built the only unsinkable ship to this day ^_^. Ecclesiastes teaches us that there is nothing new under the sun. Adam was made after God's image, so he couldn't have been stupid.And some of what Adam knew got passed on because we have the Tower of Babel incident after the flood. I think the ancient peoples were wiser in some ways than peoples today. But, that is jst my opinion on the matter. :)
     
  15. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    so im 20 now so will jesus arrive before my heart gives in at a old age
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is rising up through His Bride all over the world.... .and a massive Awakening seems to be beginning.

    I believe that we will be amazed by the positive changes over these next ten to twenty years.

    A wave of healing and other miracles is predicted for the immediate future.

    The Great Tsunami | prod.morningstarministries.org

    More information on why this happens is here:

    Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?
     
  17. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Well, yes. Religion has a long history of unhealthy manipulation. But it is odd that the opinion you expressed is along the lines of manipulating people through fear, obligation, and guilt.
     
  18. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi HFJ,

    Well, this whole idea about mankind having gone from ignorance to intelligence has its foundation in the Darwinian theory of evolution. People who don't believe that God literally made Adam as the first man as the Scriptures declare, have, as their only other position, that mankind evolved from some lesser intelligent animal. What God's word refers to as the brute beasts created to be destroyed.

    Adam and Eve didn't have the knowledge that we have gained over the years to build great bridges and skyscrapers. What we see as great engineering feats of today. But they weren't neanderthal idiots. They were human beings pretty much like you and me. They spoke an intelligible language both with each other and with God and with their children and their children's children as they were born. God gave them the knowledge of a language with which they were able to communicate on day one. I'm fairly confident that writing has also never been an issue, or other's ability to read another's writing.

    However, the understanding that we actually came from and started out from ignorant beasts, is what supports the understanding that speaking and writing and reading had to be 'invented' over centuries before people had those abilities.

    We have countless testimonies in the Scriptures that men could communicate one with the other through intelligible language long before the flood. Adam spoike to Eve and Eve to the Serpent and both of them to God. Cain spoke to God and both Cain and Abel knew to bring sacrifices to God. Something that no beast has ever done to this day. If we believe the account of God's purpose for bringing about the flood, it would appear that men and women were communicating quite well...they were just communicating wickedness instead of righteousness.

    Keep up the good fight for the faith.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  19. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi Dale. Just a couple of thoughts. First, I don't think a generation is 25 years, biblically speaking. It could be 25, there is evidence for a few other numbers, but I think the most consistent number would be 40. That aside, more can be done in a short period of time than most today realize. My favorite example comes from the movie Defiance. In this "based on a true story" movie, we find that the 2 Jewish brothers who fled into the woods and one of them became the leader of many hundreds of other Jews fleeing persecution. 68 years after the war (the movie is 7 years old now) a statistic shows up on the screen that says over 10,000 descendants are alive today that draw their lineage back directly to those who were in the woods during the war. Between 1000 and 1200 survivors became over 10,000 in 2 generations.

    If we start with a penny and double it every day, in a month you'll be a millionaire. 400 years is a long time to procreate even if you start with a small number.
     
  20. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Seriously? How do you know this?
     
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