Are We Going Into The Biblical Time of Tribulation??

[Big Mouth Nana]

Joe 2:2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.

The Antichrist armies are the Northern army!! Where it says there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations, goes along with what Jesus said about the great tribulation...Matt 24:21 ~ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
See the simularity to both these verses? Of course the Lords army is a great and a strong people like there has never been before nor anymore after it!!! You are seeing the Lords army as the Northern army, and that is wrong. Two different armies all together. This is where the Antichrist and his army and the Lord and His army come face to face.

...

Joe 2:20

But I will remove far off from you the northern [army], and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

No... I'm not seeing that they are supernatural because they die and stink....

The nothern army is a completely different group of people in Joel 2. Look who comes first with the cosmic events...Joel 2:10-11 ~ 10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Then the Northern army is driven off later in that chapter where his stink comes up.

The problem is that God steps in with Ezek's gog war and everyone knows it was God who saves Israel. This is why I think Joel 2's Northern army which is wiped out by God is Ezek's gog Northern army. This happens when the Day of Wrath/Day of the Lord begins when the sun/moon darken...aka, Seal #6.

Gog doesn't come against Israel until the 1000 years are up, then He destroys them with fire from heaven...Rev 20:7-9 ~ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city (Jerusalem): and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Joe 2:31

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

The sun/moon darkening signals the return of Christ, and then the Day of The Lord begins immediately after that. We are changed at this point, so it isn't going to affect the bride.

The cosmic events (sun/moon darkening) are the signal that the Lord has returned, that the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath has begun. It is not the same thing as the rapture and it's not the same thing as when Christ comes on the clouds either which are before and after this event, respectively.

There is an entire seventh seal full of trumpets and bowls after the destruction of the Northern army that invades when the sun/moon darken. "If 'the tribulation' is not cut short, no one would survive". It is cut short by God stepping in when the Northern army invades Israel as described in Ezek 38 and Joel 2. "For the sake of the elect, these days are shortened". The elect are the 144,000 of Israel who are sealed and protected by God during the wrath of God.


THEN, the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins! God allows the devil to reign, the two witnesses to testify, the trumpets and bowls happen.

Pray for guidance Jen. This part here is SO wrong and out of order!!! For one thing, the two witnesses are NOT here during the wrath!!! They are caught up in Rev 11:12. The wrath starts in Rev 11:18. Check out the sequence of this. It is SO plain!

But there's no fighting on either side. The wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming and the sword out of His mouth (He speaks the word). How can a mortal human being physically fight their Creator or an immortal army?

Because this is not an entirely mortal man!! This is Satan!!! Sure, He speaks the Word, but Joel says that the Northern army is driven off, and I believe that it is by the Lords army. Driven off does not mean destroyed with the brightness of His coming!! Also, in my bible, it says "that Wicked" shall be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. That Wicked is singular meaning the Antichrist..not all of his army. Gee, do you think that the Lords army is going to be so powerless that we just sit on these horses taking up air space? We are called an army for a reason.

 

[4hurting]

Yes and no, see my posting else where, keep this short for me for once, amazing I know, lol.

As I keep saying, not sure the curtain has even gone up yet.
For us, seconds or a minute or so when in the theater and waiting for the curtain to raise, music, lights dim.

But for God can be years, more patient, does not live in Time, guided by it like we are.
Is by events.

These are signs, that's all, heck, pray I'm wrong and there is a pre- trib raptue, cause trust me, only gonna get a lot worse yet.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I vote 'going into tribulation'. GM food is the end of any human future. Once they mess up the basics of survival for humans, provided since the creation for humans to live, that's it then, the game is up. I have thought for a long time that humans don't have the 'whatever it is' to behave in any morale, responsible way.. nukes, overpopulation, pollution, killing off all the wildlife, and now GMO. I have wondered how Jesus will sort out the mess, it would take a re-creation of all the animals that have become extinct since the creation, sort out all the pollution and strife. I have thought the millenial rule of Christ to be literally true, for 1000 years, after the dramatic return of Christ, not a 'pre-trib rapture', but an event seen all over the earth, prior to the resurrection, perhaps, but the timing might be disputed, the dead in Christ rise first, then the thousand years.
I would have to study more, before I could agree or disagree with Ezekiel 38-39 happening before or after the millenium.
It would be very difficult to try and predict if or not the financial problems are just a short-term, or more serious.
Another thing i discovered of late, is that passage Revelation 13.. and the way the wording is throughout for 'he'. The context of the passage is that this 'he' is 'the beast', but given the way the 'he' is used all the way through, and understanding that we are talking about a beast, which is always an empire, then this 'he' is an empire. Not an individual. And it is not 'the antichrist', as it does not say that in that entire passage. I understand that Rev. 13 to be about a final world empire. And i now believe that empire to be the USA and UK in cahoots.. that is the final beast.. not Obama, Tony Blair, or anyone else.

 

[4hurting]

Quote:

The context of the passage is that this 'he' is 'the beast', but given the way the 'he' is used all the way through, and understanding that we are talking about a beast, which is always an empire, then this 'he' is an empire. Not an individual. And it is not 'the antichrist', as it does not say that in that entire passage. I understand that Rev. 13 to be about a final world empire. And i now believe that empire to be the USA and UK in cahoots..

This is what, sure it is dated some years this guy says when it was shown on TBN.
Cool, that another thinks the same.
He points out always been taken that way in Daniel.

So the revived Roman Empire might well have a part to play.
But I have long given up the idea that it's the EU and Western EU cause the EU now has over 25 members etc.

It is clear, as usual, if Bible history repeats itself, most of mankind will reject God in some way or another, meaning even many Christians, if possible deceive the very elect, chosen ones in to some new system.
Sure could all be nonsense, those that said Bush, well he is now long gone, maybe Obama will too and Blair and the EU might turn out to protect Israel and fight against those Muslim nation surrounding etc.

We have to look to the big empires and since Romans, not sure there has ever been one as big, in control of as many countries and seas, until the British Empire.
Which God took away as we messed up of Israel, allowed to be took away.

If these are the final period of days before Yeshua returns, would stand to reason the biggest and still current empire, world power, super power as they say today then is the United States of America.
So interesting as it failed, the world started to go with it.
This sends a message to all those dreams and stories of the past few years I read about the US being attacked.
Why?
Well think, China or North Korea or Russia did such a thing, who buys from them, world economy would collapse worse than we see even now etc.

Fact this has been allowed to happen and I'm no expert, but could see it coming sooner it later, because of the debt the west was in, means they can now trumpet this, we all need to come together, Obama, we need to do away with political divide and work together.

Nothing wrong in peace, world wide and sharing and becoming one, except it never works, too many opposing views anyway on certain things. But even if it does across, say economic and whatever else measure that the governments can agree on, regardless their people, then it is dangerous because normally it becomes prideful, we did it, we can do it, we will do it and God no where to be seen.

We can build the tower man, mankind can achieve it, no need for God.

I'm far more concerned we are, most Christian even awake still missing the boat, they expect a boat, but get on the wrong one, so to speak, while others don't even turn up and are asleep all together.

So I'm wary of all things, meaning eye on everything, because we might already be into, or close to being, in this one world system.

And again, always some good reason so it seems and then as we know, like the internet, good and then inappropriate content and bad.
Planes, good, flying people around, no lets put bombs on them and missles, bad.
Whatever God makes Good, satan through man makes bad.
Then God wins anyway.

Satan dances for joy, bubbly anyone, Jesus is on the cross, I did it, well done Judas, HA HA.
3 days later, GRRRRRRRRRRRR, WHAT'S this I see before me, Yeshua raised from the dead, NO, NO, NO.
Hitler, HA HA, yes yes yes, exterminate all the Jews, ruin the messiahs plans then of any return, hee hee hee.
NO, NO, NO US and UK and beating Germany, OH no Israel set up as a nation now, NO.

What God intends for Good and manking, gets hijacked by satan, same with churches, hence so many demonminations, and then God has the final laugh and say, obviously.

So if the world unites, maybe be a literal anti-christ then gets possessed by satan, Judas, nothing changes, history repeats itself.
But Jesus shall return and put an end to it all, believed to be at battle of armageddon.

So we need to be watching all powers world wide constantly, seeing what they are up to.
Israel the main key of course.
Not just Obama and Russia as this magog and so on.

April 2009 the key, see what this so called G20 comes up with in London if anything and if they scrap or reform the IMF and see next what the global elite try to do.
Keep eyes on Monsanto and GM and other such things, as Jesus warned also and I always forget this one thinking, won't effect us, be third world countries, oh really, honey bees dying and, well, go figure.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Due to the global economy, I would like to get others perspectives on the times that we are living in right now. From what you know about the Great Depression...if you know anything, do you consider this any worse then that time, and if so how?If you believe that we are going into the tribulation, what is your reasoning? I personally believe that we have entered that time, and there will be no recovery to this economic crises. We will spiral right into the time of the Antichrists reign.

That's not fair BMN, you are attempting to get us to answer two different questions at the same time.

No I don't think we are heading into The Tribulation at this time, but yes I think we are headed, and maybe there, towards an economic time that will be just as bad as the great depression. I think it will be short lived though. I do believe we will pull out of it for a time. Then the real tribulation (7 year) will begin and the economy will completely tank like never before and then we will be in a totally cashless world with nothing but a mark.

 

[4hurting]

Interesting say that neph, cause I read that on the net by someone, about this not being the one, will recover and then next one will be the one.
Can't remember now where or if by someone claiming to hear from God.

One has to be careful, lot of that, not saying not genuine modern day prophets, but most sadly are cons etc.
Who knows, all I know is, something is being set up, said so themselves, that the IMF needs reforming and so on.
All eyes on London In April, should give us a better picture what they intend to do.

Jesus said can't serve both God and Mammon.
More I look into all this, can't buy or sell, so on, more I think it's about choice, you get the symbolic mark if you go for the world, I must do the lottery, I must win big, I must do the pools, I must be rich, I must invest in stock and shares, money, money, money.

So could it be they bring in a system that you can not buy or sell, on the markets unless you partake of that system.
Meaning for those Christians not interesting in serving money we will be fine.

Yes, I hear you, chopping off of heads, literal mark, lol, maybe, not ruling anything out.

I love having a wide scope, cover all angles.

because if you believe symbolic only and was literal, and you take the mark, can't be forgiven for it, game over.
And if you believe it is literal and then not take it, might struggle in life, when no need to, because it's symbolic, lol, go figure.

I think the point of all this is, as I'm reading some, frustrating shouting Are we in the Tribulation and what's the point, grrrrrrr, and so on.
Is to wake people up to stand up.

If we shut our eyes, hoping maybe it will go away, wake up one day to Find Obama has banned the practicing of all faiths, no church, etc. This is because causes nothing but trouble, humanists would have a field day, hmm, unless they got banned, wonder if that would apply to satanists as well, lol, hey perhaps not a bad idea after all.
Could always do a China, go underground.

But seriously, standing up, making a fuss, like over the Religious Hatred bill in the UK and so on, can sometimes matter.
Because if you get enough writing to the MP, congress member and they think, heck, might lose my seat next election, they might be persuaded to vote against it, amen.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

That's not fair BMN, you are attempting to get us to answer two different questions at the same time.

Sometimes life isn't fair neph

No I don't think we are heading into The Tribulation at this time, but yes I think we are headed, and maybe there, towards an economic time that will be just as bad as the great depression. I think it will be short lived though. I do believe we will pull out of it for a time. Then the real tribulation (7 year) will begin and the economy will completely tank like never before and then we will be in a totally cashless world with nothing but a mark.

Now this doesn't make sense to me unless you clarify WHY? Why do you believe that this time that we are in right now couldn't throw us right into the great tribulation? What has to happen differently then what is going on right now then any other time? By the way, the tribulation is 3.5 years...42 months, not 7 years.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Another thing i discovered of late, is that passage Revelation 13.. and the way the wording is throughout for 'he'. The context of the passage is that this 'he' is 'the beast', but given the way the 'he' is used all the way through, and understanding that we are talking about a beast, which is always an empire, then this 'he' is an empire. Not an individual. And it is not 'the antichrist', as it does not say that in that entire passage. I understand that Rev. 13 to be about a final world empire. And i now believe that empire to be the USA and UK in cahoots.. that is the final beast.. not Obama, Tony Blair, or anyone else.

hiscosmicgoldfish, would you say that an evil empire has to have an evil leader? This verse right here in Rev 13 shows that it is a "he", and individual...Rev 13:4 ~And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (not them). This "he" is the leader of these 10 horns that rise out of the sea....nations.
I see this "dragon" (Satan) and the beast as one person. Satan enters the beast, (a man) so in reality, these people are worshipping Satan/the beast.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

hiscosmicgoldfish, would you say that an evil empire has to have an evil leader? This verse right here in Rev 13 shows that it is a "he", and individual...Rev 13:4 ~And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (not them). This "he" is the leader of these 10 horns that rise out of the sea....nations.
I see this "dragon" (Satan) and the beast as one person. Satan enters the beast, (a man) so in reality, these people are worshipping Satan/the beast.

I think the first part of Rev 13 is describing the old world beast empires, which rise out of the sea = the sea is symbolic of many people, the old world.. .. Lion and Bear are the old Babylon and Persian Empires. Leopard is Greece and Alexander. The dragon is satan which gives this composite beast his power. I cant work out the whole verse though.

1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

Specifically with Rev 13, 11-

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence,

This is the USA, which draws its power from the old-world beast empires that were outlined above. The two horns are the UK and US.

and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

the first beast is the old beast system, the Roman system, which followed the other empires. The wound that healed is the Papal Power.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

even fire from heaven.. nuclear weapons.. first achieved by the US.

14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

wounded by the sword, is wounded by the word of God.. the bible, the sword is oft likened to Christ and his word. The protestant churches were founded on the bible, and so is modern evangelical christianity. The US makes an image of the Roman Power, in it's buildings and culture, as a reflection of the old empire.

15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Persecutions start up again against the protestants.

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[f] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The US/anglo end-time empire forces everyone on earth to take the mark of the beast, the beast being that system which they have created, also the financial system. What i saw when i read it again a while back, was the use of 'he' all the way through Rev 13, at v.11 .. so it is not an individual. I dont think any beast has ever been an individual, so why should this be any different? Him is similar to He. The first part of Rev 13 is about the trouble with Rome and the Pope. Also .. and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. .. here we have a 'his' when referring to a beast, and in the context of this beast rising out of the sea.. no, that is not an individual, so a 'him' dosn't have to be an individual also.. it is a male reference all through, for a beast empire, as 'him' he' 'his'...

I dont know what the 42 months is. It's not clear what it is. I dont believe in a Daniel gap-theory. Daniel is 70 weeks of years for the Israelites for the time of Daniel's vision to the death of Christ and the Christian era. . That's it. It dosn't jump to some time at the end of days, and re-constuct the whole thing again, as 7 years and all that. It's not fluid, or consistant to the verse that says.. '70 weeks have been given'..