Are we failures because we sin?

[bling]

Are we failures because we sin?

Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?

 

[TastyWallet]

Are we failures because we sin?

Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?

If by 'failure" you are referring to perfection, then the answer is simple. Yes, we are all failures. Romans 3:23 teaches us that "all have fallen short of the glory of God". But it doesn't have to stay that way.

God did not leave us without hope. He became one of us, Jesus, and paid the penalty for our lawbreaking to make forgiveness possible. When we accept God's offer, Jesus takes our failures and we receive His perfection. We can do this if we humbly confess our lawbreaking to God, agreeing with Him that we've been a failure at living up to His standard, and trust in Jesus, who pays the penalty for our failures.

We can never be "successful" on our own. We can never be perfect human beings, left to our own devices. We need Jesus to perfect us!

 

[Albion]

Are we failures because we sin?

Of course.

Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

Sure.

Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

I don't know that "successful" is the word for it.

Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

No. At least, that's not the way Genesis looks at it.

Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

Some say that, but we're offspring of Adam and Eve, so we are cut out of that damaged cloth.

Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?

Yes and no. We're bound to sin, but He did provide a wonderful way out, didn't he?

 

[bling]

If by 'failure" you are referring to perfection, then the answer is simple. Yes, we are all failures. Romans 3:23 teaches us that "all have fallen short of the glory of God". But it doesn't have to stay that way.

God did not leave us without hope. He became one of us, Jesus, and paid the penalty for our lawbreaking to make forgiveness possible. When we accept God's offer, Jesus takes our failures and we receive His perfection. We can do this if we humbly confess our lawbreaking to God, agreeing with Him that we've been a failure at living up to His standard, and trust in Jesus, who pays the penalty for our failures.

We can never be "successful" on our own. We can never be perfect human beings, left to our own devices. We need Jesus to perfect us!

We tell our children: “If you do your best you are a winner”, but even doing our best we would still sin, so what makes us a winner? If we win the race Paul says we are in are we winners or failures?

We certainly are not perfect, but does being imperfect make us a failure in God’s eyes?

We are really just trying to please God, so how do we succeed with that goal or is that an impossible goal?

In the father’s eyes did the father fail with the prodigal son and was the prodigal son a failure or a success?

 

[bling]

Of course.


Sure.


I don't know that "successful" is the word for it.


No. At least, that's not the way Genesis looks at it.


Some say that, but we're offspring of Adam and Eve, so we are cut out of that damaged cloth.


Yes and no. We're bound to sin, but He did provide a wonderful way out, didn't he?

Ok you say: “I don't know that "successful" is the word for it.” To the question: “Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?”, but Paul uses the analogy of a race and we are to run hard to win the crown (be successful it would seem), so what word would you use?

Again: “Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?” Or do we just blame Adam and Eve?

If we are saved and windup in heaven, are we winners?

 

[TastyWallet]

We tell our children: “If you do your best you are a winner”, but even doing our best we would still sin, so what makes us a winner? If we win the race Paul says we are in are we winners or failures?

I already answered this.

We certainly are not perfect, but does being imperfect make us a failure in God’s eyes?

I already answered this.

We are really just trying to please God, so how do we succeed with that goal or is that an impossible goal?

I already answered this.

In the father’s eyes did the father fail with the prodigal son and was the prodigal son a failure or a success?

Given that I answered the first three questions already, the answer to this question is obvious.

 

[Albion]

Ok you say: “I don't know that "successful" is the word for it.” To the question: “Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?”, but Paul uses the analogy of a race and we are to run hard to win the crown (be successful it would seem), so what word would you use?

The question asked if we are successful if we accept God's charity. To me, the word "success" normally is associated with achieving something through our own efforts. If we accept an unearned and unmerited gift, that isn't what's happening.

If we are saved and windup in heaven, are we winners?

I suppose you could say that. I'd be more inclined to say "beneficiaries" or something like that.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The question asked if we are successful if we accept God's charity. To me, the word "success" normally is associated with achieving something through our own efforts. If we accept an unearned and unmerited gift, that isn't what's happening.

I suppose you could say that. I'd be more inclined to say "beneficiaries" or something like that.

Thanks for your excellent post.

 

[Soyeong]

Are we failures because we sin?

Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?

The failure is not in the sinful action, but in the lack of faith that leads to the sinful action. When God said that this is the right way to live, if we have faith, then we will live accordingly and we will succeed, but if we have faith in someone else instead, such as the serpent, then we will not live accordingly and we will fail. Giving us free will allows us to have the choice to have faith, which implies some will choose to not to have faith, or else it wouldn't be free will. However, we weren't set up to not have faith, but to have faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The failure is not in the sinful action, but in the lack of faith that leads to the sinful action. When God said that this is the right way to live, if we have faith, then we will live accordingly and we will succeed, but if we have faith in someone else instead, such as the serpent, then we will not live accordingly and we will fail. Giving us free will allows us to have the choice to have faith, which implies some will choose to not to have faith, or else it wouldn't be free will. However, we weren't set up to not have faith, but to have faith.

Where in the Bible does it tell us that we "weren't set up to not have faith, but to have faith"?

 

[Soyeong]

Where in the Bible does it tell us that we "weren't set up to not have faith, but to have faith"?

Back in the Garden God they were set up to walk with God in the cool of the day and told them not to eat of the tree or they would surely die. The serpent said not to have faith in what God had said and they chose to have faith in the serpent instead. All throughout the Bible God wants our faith and if we have faith in Him, then we will obey Him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Back in the Garden God they were set up to walk with God in the cool of the day and told them not to eat of the tree or they would surely die. The serpent said not to have faith in what God had said and they chose to have faith in the serpent instead. All throughout the Bible God wants our faith and if we have faith in Him, then we will obey Him.

Thanks for your take on The Fall. I think if you actually look at the text you will find some significant differences. For example, it was Eve who believed what the serpent said. She did not have faith in the serpent, per se, but in what it said. Adam later believed what Eve told him so you might say his faith was in his wife.

 

[Soyeong]

Thanks for your take on The Fall. I think if you actually look at the text you will find some significant differences. For example, it was Eve who believed what the serpent said. She did not have faith in the serpent, per se, but in what it said. Adam later believed what Eve told him so you might say his faith was in his wife.

You're quibbling over minor differences. There aren't enough details to know how much Adam knew about what was happening, but Even did know what God had said and she trusted the serpent instead. If you have faith in someone, then you will believe what they say, so she did not have faith in God because she did not believe what He said and she had faith in the serpent because she believed what he said. Whether Adam had faith in his wife is insignificant because the point is that all throughout the Bible God wants us to have faith in Him, not to fail to have faith. God made a promise and we are to have faith in Him by believing that promise. He made the promise so that we would believe it, not to set us up to not believe it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You're quibbling over minor differences. There aren't enough details to know how much Adam knew about what was happening, but Even did know what God had said and she trusted the serpent instead. If you have faith in someone, then you will believe what they say, so she did not have faith in God because she did not believe what He said and she had faith in the serpent because she believed what he said. Whether Adam had faith in his wife is insignificant because the point is that all throughout the Bible God wants us to have faith in Him, not to fail to have faith. God made a promise and we are to have faith in Him by believing that promise. He made the promise so that we would believe it, not to set us up to not believe it.

You seem to believe in predestination in which God set us up so that we would have faith. Am I correct in thinking this?

 

[Soyeong]

You seem to believe in predestination in which God set us up so that we would have faith. Am I correct in thinking this?

I was not talking about predestination, but about intent. We were created with the intention for us to the to be in a relationship with God by faith, not to not have faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was not talking about predestination, but about intent. We were created with the intention for us to the to be in a relationship with God by faith, not to not have faith.

Thank you for the clarification. If I understand you correctly God created everyone with the intent to have faith, but only those who exercise their free ability to develop faith will be saved. Am I correct?

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you for the clarification. If I understand you correctly God created everyone with the intent to have faith, but only those who exercise their free ability to develop faith will be saved. Am I correct?

I know the Bible talks about predestination and I know we have free will, but I don't know how exactly they work together. Molinism seems to me to be a good way to think about it, but in the end, it is just a helpful construct to wrap our minds around to try to understand the way that God is like, rather than dictating the way that God must be like. God doesn't fit in our boxes. Another way that I've thought about it is like a videogame, where there are certain plot points that happen every time you play through it, but in between those plot points you can freely choose to take any number of different actions such that each playthrough is unique. So you would still have free will as to how you choose to play through the game, but those plot points would be predestined.

In any case, our faith is developed by someone demonstrating to us that they have been trustworthy. Our free will comes into play by choosing to have faith or to act in a way that demonstrates that we think someone will be trustworthy in the future when we will be put at risk if they don't turn out to be trustworthy. If we choose to act in faith in God to lead us into living rightly, then we will be saved from living wrongly.

 

[bling]

In the story of the prodigal son you have two sons:

1. The father seems to want and is trying to develop his sons to be like he is (having unselfish Love [Godly type Love]). So if a son becomes like the Father with such unselfish Love would that son be seen as a success for the father?
   
   
2. We know the young son humbly accepted the father’s forgiveness and the father showered him with gifts, but since “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…” would the young son automatically obtain an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love)?
   
   
3. The older son can be seen as the obedient son, but if the older son does not join the father and young son at the party, is the older son a failure up to that point for the father?
   
   
4. Would God measure man’s success and failure in sins or in acceptance of forgiveness for sins?
   

 

[bbbbbbb]

I know the Bible talks about predestination and I know we have free will, but I don't know how exactly they work together. Molinism seems to me to be a good way to think about it, but in the end, it is just a helpful construct to wrap our minds around to try to understand the way that God is like, rather than dictating the way that God must be like. God doesn't fit in our boxes. Another way that I've thought about it is like a videogame, where there are certain plot points that happen every time you play through it, but in between those plot points you can freely choose to take any number of different actions such that each playthrough is unique. So you would still have free will as to how you choose to play through the game, but those plot points would be predestined.

In any case, our faith is developed by someone demonstrating to us that they have been trustworthy. Our free will comes into play by choosing to have faith or to act in a way that demonstrates that we think someone will be trustworthy in the future when we will be put at risk if they don't turn out to be trustworthy. If we choose to act in faith in God to lead us into living rightly, then we will be saved from living wrongly.

This is true from our human perspective, but I think God's perspective is not ours.

 

[Soyeong]

This is true from our human perspective, but I think God's perspective is not ours.

I would agree that God's perspective is not ours, but what do you not think this is true from God's perspective?