Are we born spiritually alive or dead?

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

It is talking about how they went from being saved as a baby, then unsaved after they grew up and sinned willingly against God, and then they come home from their prodigal life of sin back to the everlasting Father through repentance (seeking forgiveness with the father). It could also refer to believers who backslide into sin (while still believing Jesus is their Savior) and then later came back to living for the Lord.

I think Scripture could possibly support both of the categories you shared.

This is one parable in a serious of 3 other parables with the theme of repentance (Which obviously deals with salvation). When the son came home (after his prodigal life) the father says that his son was DEAD and he is ALIVE AGAIN. This means he was dead spiritually and he is now alive again spiritually. This proves that sin can separate a person from GOD.

So this thought-process supports being spiritually dead and spiritually alive being separation from God, not actually spiritually dead or alive. Similar to what Hillsage was saying, is that what you are saying? And, then in that sense, you could be prodigal more than once.

The older son is representative of Israel and the prodigal son is representative of the Gentiles. The older son was angry when his brother was thrown a party. Paul says that the Gentiles were included to make Israel jealous of the salvation that they would obtain. Granted, not all Gentiles will be saved obviously. This is speaking in general terms here.

Again, Scripture supports this link; but I was more interested in who you thought the older brother was in the context of how you used the prodigal earlier with regard to salvation, since none of us had salvation the whole time. Do you think the older brother represents the angels, in that context?

Also, your phrase that all have sinned is not defined. While I believe we have all sinned as a part of our old life, it would not be correct to say that believers still continue in sin as a way of life. When you read Romans 3:23 and Romans 3:10, you also have to read Romans 3:11, too. Unless of course you believe that believers today have no understanding and they do not seek after God.

I believe all sinned before coming to believe. I don't believe that believers have to continue to sin, because if we are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh, we won't sin. It is only when we walk in the flesh that we will sin, since the Holy Spirit is not going to lead us into sin. I understand that in some cases, it may take some renewing of the mind. I think Scripture has something to say about someone who willfully sins and unless that is only speaking about willful disbelief, then I am not sure you can re-prodigal and come back.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think Scripture could possibly support both of the categories you shared.

I agree.

So this thought-process supports being spiritually dead and spiritually alive being separation from God, not actually spiritually dead or alive.

Yes, a human still has a spirit that is functional and it is not annihiated or in shattered pieces in the spirit realm. The spirit to me is the essence of a person's being in how they appear in the spirit realm. It is their spirit body. Granted, those who are born again spiritually are given a new heart with new desires. So the spirit is alive unto God (spiritually connected) whereby they will not want to justify sin and live holy.

When a person is dead spiritually, they are not connected to God and neither are they connected to the things of God; Therefore they do not understand His Word fully and they are alive unto justifying sin because they sin and or they like an easy way (and prefer their way or sin over God, even if they might say they love Him and they strive to obey Him). They are on a path to being annihiated (or erased from existence) in the Lake of Fire unless they repent (Seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ).

Similar to what Hillsage was saying, is that what you are saying?

What was Hillsage saying?

And, then in that sense, you could be prodigal more than once.

Well, in technical terms.... yes (Because a person can go prodigal after growing up as a child and sinning for the first time and then later go prodigal again after having accepted Jesus); But I am not so sure this would include a believer backsliding into a life of sin two different times in their life after they have accepted Jesus as their Savior. Sure, God can forgive many times that we stumble, but I think it is highly unlikely a believer will go prodigal twice after they accept Jesus as their Savior.

Again, Scripture supports this link; but I was more interested in who you thought the older brother was in the context of how you used the prodigal earlier with regard to salvation, since none of us had salvation the whole time. Do you think the older brother represents the angels, in that context?

No. I still see the angry brother who is upset of our repentance as the Jew even in context of what I said. The Jews are our brothers because we have become joint heirs of Abraham's seed by Jesus Christ. Jesus was a Jew and we will all be resurrected after His flesh and blood body. Paul also says that one can be an Israelite inwardly, as well (Meaning, by our behavior). For we follow Christ who is the King of the Jews.

I also see the father as Jesus in this story. For Jesus is our "Everlasting Father;"
For Jesus is how we get right with God. Jesus is the only mediator between God the Father and man.

I believe all sinned before coming to believe.

Me, too. I agree.

I don't believe that believers have to continue to sin, because if we are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh, we won't sin. It is only when we walk in the flesh that we will sin, since the Holy Spirit is not going to lead us into sin.

I agree. You may like Pastor Alan Ballou's videos.

Alan Ballou

II understand that in some cases, it may take some renewing of the mind. I think Scripture has something to say about someone who willfully sins and unless that is only speaking about willful disbelief, then I am not sure you can re-prodigal and come back.

I agree. I believe (not counting a person's prior unbelief before accepting Christ) a person cannot go prodigal two times (i.e. whereby they believe in Jesus and yet they have backslidden into a sinful life or a sinful mindset with seeking after the world and it's riches and pleasures, etc.).