Are Warren Throckmorton and Grove City College really conservative Christians?

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
For the past 6 months, I used to post here:www.wthrockmorton.com .

For those of you who don't know, Throckmorton is a professor of psychology at Grove City College, www.gcc.edu an officially Christian school (I'm not so sure what church they are affiliated with) who happens to operate a blog mentioned above. He writes about different kinds of things, greatly concentrate on faith, politics, and sexuality. Btw, many years ago he made a documentary called "I Do Exist" on people who claimed to have changed from homosexuals to heterosexuals. However, when most of those that he interviewed has admitted that they were still gay, he became critical of all reparative therapies, and started his own called Sexual Identity Framework.
The evangelical professor who turned against 'reparative therapy' for gays

The point is that recently, he started promoting extreme biases against evangelical Christians by allowing numerous inflammatory comments coming from posters who hated Christianity and advocated that Bible-based Christians to be shunned and discriminated. I used to post there and was trying to understand why. At first I thought that it was because evangelical Christians tend to vote Republican more than Democrat, but eventually I realized that the whole purpose of Warren's blog is to please the feelings of Bible-hating radical leftists instead of focusing on the Biblical Truth, which goes contrary to the general definition of a conservative.

I would like to ask an ethical question, whether GCC, who is aware of Throckmorton's blog and what he does there, should retain his employment? If GCC's administration thinks they should, what does it tell about their Christian character? For those of you, who have been associated with GCC, I would appreciate if you tell me about your experience with them. I am also curious because by looking at their site, I could not find any stated code of conduct that they have for their students and faculties. Could it be possible that Grove City College is Christian in the name only? As you can see, this school has a reputation of being conservative, but does it necessarily mean they are biblically oriented?

I'd really like to hear your input,

Kind regards,

Sam.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: paul1149

tdidymas

Newbie
Aug 28, 2014
2,301
982
Houston, TX
✟154,100.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
For the past 6 months, I have been commenting on a blog of Warren Throckmorton...
I'd really like to hear your input,

Kind regards,

Sam.
It does not appear to me that Throckmorton has abandoned the faith, so I wouldn't be quick to call him apostate, or the school for that matter, based on my reading of the article. I would like to make a few comments from quotes in the article:

"The alternative is to accept that God would allow people to be born with natural, irrevocable desires for something forbidden." This statement assumes that all desires are "good" if it "feels good," which is the idolatry of the culture. The Bible teaches that we are born with a sinful nature, in which many desires are evil, and should be "put to death" by the power of the Spirit. Therefore all Christians have sinful desires that keep "rearing their ugly head," and this is why we continue to need our Savior to deliver us, which is an ongoing faith-walk. Unfortunately it appears that Throckmorton is becoming confused about it. I think this is a quote from the journalist, but an accurate assessment of Throckmorton's attitude.

"If something is real right in front of your face, if it’s true, don’t let a worldview tell you it’s not. Let the evidence tell you it’s not" - a quote from Throckmorton, which proves he is confused. Yes, desires are real. Evil is real. Sin is real. Addiction is real. Behavior is real. It all stares us in the face. The "real" question is, what stand do we take? Do we trust God and His word? The fact that there is no law that commands us to be heterosexual in desire (orientation) does not negate the ugliness (abomination in the sight of God) of homosexual behavior. There are "gay" Christians in the sense that they still have a same-sex attraction, but do not practice the "gay" lifestyle. Such people are at least attempting to escape the corruption of the world by lust.

So, Throckmorton's idea that reparative therapy doesn't work might be true statistically (according to his limited investigation), but this does not mean that the LGBTQ lifestyle is acceptable. I don't know enough about reparative therapy to agree or disagree. By his statement "Sometimes I may have to suspend my worldview and acknowledge that there is evidence here in one side," perhaps his jury hasn't yet come to a verdict.

Other than this, I wouldn't want to get into a speculative debate on what the school administration ought to do at this point.
TD:)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
It does not appear to me that Throckmorton has abandoned the faith, so I wouldn't be quick to call him apostate, or the school for that matter, based on my reading of the article. I would like to make a few comments from quotes in the article:

"The alternative is to accept that God would allow people to be born with natural, irrevocable desires for something forbidden." This statement assumes that all desires are "good" if it "feels good," which is the idolatry of the culture. The Bible teaches that we are born with a sinful nature, in which many desires are evil, and should be "put to death" by the power of the Spirit. Therefore all Christians have sinful desires that keep "rearing their ugly head," and this is why we continue to need our Savior to deliver us, which is an ongoing faith-walk. Unfortunately it appears that Throckmorton is becoming confused about it. I think this is a quote from the journalist, but an accurate assessment of Throckmorton's attitude.

"If something is real right in front of your face, if it’s true, don’t let a worldview tell you it’s not. Let the evidence tell you it’s not" - a quote from Throckmorton, which proves he is confused. Yes, desires are real. Evil is real. Sin is real. Addiction is real. Behavior is real. It all stares us in the face. The "real" question is, what stand do we take? Do we trust God and His word? The fact that there is no law that commands us to be heterosexual in desire (orientation) does not negate the ugliness (abomination in the sight of God) of homosexual behavior. There are "gay" Christians in the sense that they still have a same-sex attraction, but do not practice the "gay" lifestyle. Such people are at least attempting to escape the corruption of the world by lust.

So, Throckmorton's idea that reparative therapy doesn't work might be true statistically (according to his limited investigation), but this does not mean that the LGBTQ lifestyle is acceptable. I don't know enough about reparative therapy to agree or disagree. By his statement "Sometimes I may have to suspend my worldview and acknowledge that there is evidence here in one side," perhaps his jury hasn't yet come to a verdict.

Other than this, I wouldn't want to get into a speculative debate on what the school administration ought to do at this point.
TD:)

Thanks for your feedback. I highly suggest that in order to get a better idea of what Throckmorton believes and does you should check his blog besides reading that article from Yahoo. Or didn't you read my story of posting on his blog?

Based on my experience with his blog, I started questioning whether he is really a conservative Christian and whether Grove City College is a truly conservative school. I am seeing that Warren is moving away from conservatism towards a wishy-washy theology, but I don't have an opinion about GCC, at all. That's why I'm posing a question about this school as well. I have never gone there and do not know any people who are studying or have studied there. So, I would like to hear the perspectives of such people.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
So, I just looked at Throckmorton's site and noticed a disclaimer that his blog reflects only his views and not the views of the school. That's fair legally speaking, but still makes me question GCC's conservative Christian standpoint.
 
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For the past 6 months, I used to post here:www.wthrockmorton.com .

For those of you who don't know, Throckmorton is a professor of psychology at Grove City College, www.gcc.edu an officially Christian school (I'm not so sure what church they are affiliated with) who happens to operate a blog mentioned above. He writes about different kinds of things, greatly concentrate on faith, politics, and sexuality. Btw, many years ago he made a documentary called "I Do Exist" on people who claimed to have changed from homosexuals to heterosexuals. However, when most of those that he interviewed has admitted that they were still gay, he became critical of all reparative therapies, and started his own called Sexual Identity Framework.
The evangelical professor who turned against 'reparative therapy' for gays

The point is that recently, he started promoting extreme biases against evangelical Christians by allowing numerous inflammatory comments coming from posters who hated Christianity and advocated that Bible-based Christians to be shunned and discriminated. I used to post there and was trying to understand why. At first I thought that it was because evangelical Christians tend to vote Republican more than Democrat, but eventually I realized that the whole purpose of Warren's blog is to please the feelings of Bible-hating radical leftists instead of focusing on the Biblical Truth, which goes contrary to the general definition of a conservative.

I would like to ask an ethical question, whether GCC, who is aware of Throckmorton's blog and what he does there, should retain his employment? If GCC's administration thinks they should, what does it tell about their Christian character? For those of you, who have been associated with GCC, I would appreciate if you tell me about your experience with them. I am also curious because by looking at their site, I could not find any stated code of conduct that they have for their students and faculties. Could it be possible that Grove City College is Christian in the name only? As you can see, this school has a reputation of being conservative, but does it necessarily mean they are biblically oriented?

I'd really like to hear your input,

Kind regards,

Sam.

Well, when someone buys in to a phony gimmick like ‘conversion therapy’, then realises it’s not all that effective, if at all, that person has a few choices. They can go into denial mode, accept the reality of it and freak out, or keep digging to get a better understanding of the wider picture. The guy you are quoting might have got a bit stuck on the idea of homosexuality being a ‘special’ sin, somehow different in nature from other tendencies.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Well, when someone buys in to a phony gimmick like ‘conversion therapy’, then realises it’s not all that effective, if at all, that person has a few choices. They can go into denial mode, accept the reality of it and freak out, or keep digging to get a better understanding of the wider picture. The guy you are quoting might have got a bit stuck on the idea of homosexuality being a ‘special’ sin, somehow different in nature from other tendencies.

I don't think Throckmorton is supporting an idea that homosexuality is a 'special' sin that is supposedly different in nature from other tendencies. Currently, he is as a therapist is helping same-sex attracted conservative Christian people to abstain from the practice of homosexuality, without ever trying to change them. Yet, he allows commenters on his blog to badmouth people who think that such a practice is a sin, just like he allows personal attacks on Christians voting for the Republicans, especially for Donald Trump. He opposes conversion therapy but he distorts the positions of actual conversion therapists and critics of it. All of this shows that Throckmorton is contradicting himself. It's really hard to know whether he is really a conservative Christian or what he truly believes.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think Throckmorton is supporting an idea that homosexuality is a 'special' sin that is supposedly different in nature from other tendencies. Currently, he is helping as a therapist to live same-sex attracted conservative Christian people to abstain from the practice of homosexuality, without ever trying to change them. Yet, he allows commenters on his blog to badmouth people who think that such a practice is a sin, just like he allows personal attacks on Christians voting for the Republicans, especially for Donald Trump. He opposes conversion therapy but he distorts the positions of actual conversion therapists and critics of it. All of this shows that Throckmorton is contradicting himself. It's really hard to know whether he is really a conservative Christian or for he truly believes.

This part of the text perhaps sums up where he is at quite well:

'Throckmorton has followed these developments [studies of same sex attraction] closely, and has adjusted his views accordingly. But he still views the Bible as divinely inspired. He wrestles continually with this tension.'

I sympathise with this approach, as I can't see a good reason to lock into either a conservative or any other view of Christianity. Whatever set of interpretations or doctrines a person locks into, it's never going to be 'right' in it's entirety. Locking into this or that set of opinions about Christ is, I think, psychologically and spiritually unhealthy. The people Christ got furious with were those who were very set in their views.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
This part of the text perhaps sums up where he is at quite well:

'Throckmorton has followed these developments [studies of same sex attraction] closely, and has adjusted his views accordingly. But he still views the Bible as divinely inspired. He wrestles continually with this tension.'

I sympathise with this approach, as I can't see a good reason to lock into either a conservative or any other view of Christianity. Whatever set of interpretations or doctrines a person locks into, it's never going to be 'right' in it's entirety. Locking into this or that set of opinions about Christ is, I think, psychologically and spiritually unhealthy. The people Christ got furious with were those who were very set in their views.

Christ got furious with those who were not following God's law, Throckmorton gets furious with those who follow God's law and refuse to conform to the world by slandering them and demonizing them.
 
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ got furious with those who were not following God's law, Throckmorton gets furious with those who follow God's law and refuse to conform to the world by slandering them and demonizing them.

I'm not so sure about that. The crowd who brought the adulterous woman before Jesus were following the law. The Pharisees (not that all Pharisees were 'bad' of course) Jesus really had a go at had turned following the law into a fine art. Jesus seems to have spent far more of his time with 'sinners' and 'tax collectors', general outcasts in society, although of course he called them to leave their sinful lives, he generally had more time for them than for the religious.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I'm not so sure about that. The crowd who brought the adulterous woman before Jesus were following the law. The Pharisees (not that all Pharisees were 'bad' of course) Jesus really had a go at had turned following the law into a fine art. Jesus seems to have spent far more of his time with 'sinners' and 'tax collectors', general outcasts in society, although of course he called them to leave their sinful lives, he generally had more time for them than for the religious.

The incident with the woman caught in adultery and how Jesus handled it, was to show that he was God who had the power to forgive people's sins. He also told that woman not to sin anymore. Furthermore, Jesus stated that he did not come to abolish the law on morality but to fulfill it. Liberals, whom Throckmorton patronizes on his blog, have a view that Jesus was all about tolerating all kinds of sins and other immoralities that are listed in the Bible. That's a huge difference. It appears to me that such people view conservative Christians who preach the Biblical Truth as Pharisees, which is so sad.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Newtheran
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The incident with the woman caught in adultery and how Jesus handled it, was to show that he was God who had the power to forgive people's sins. He also told that woman not to sin anymore. Furthermore, Jesus stated that he did not come to abolish the law on morality but to fulfill it. Liberals, whom Throckmorton patronizes on his blog, have a view that Jesus was all about tolerating all kinds of sins and other immoralities that are listed in the Bible. That's a huge difference. It appears to me that such people view conservative Christians who preach the Biblical Truth as Pharisees, which is so sad.

Yes, you're not wrong there, but I think the correct view is somewhere in the middle.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Well, it's difficult to discern what is in Throckmorton's heart. But based on the content's of his blog, he comes across as someone who believes that Christians need to keep their beliefs within the confines of their churches, ie do not participate in public square, especially in politics. There is a biblical basis for it, but I believe that as is it said in Matthew 5, we are supposed to be light of the world and the salt of the earth, by us being locked up in churches, I don't understand how could it ever be possible.
 
Upvote 0

Cash80

Member
Supporter
May 21, 2007
320
49
chatswood
Visit site
✟65,120.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I decided to bump this thread again because of a recent article written about Grove City College:
An angry debate over critical race theory splits Christian colleges across the nation

As you can see, the college has recently allowed its students to be exposed to some heretic ideas, which prompted the complaints of concerned parents and donors, yet its president keeps claiming that GCC, which is affiliated with the Presbyterian Church, is still biblically based Christian in its characteristic. Very interesting. Overall, I am not surprised if Throckmorton is still there.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I decided to bump this thread again because of a recent article written about Grove City College:
An angry debate over critical race theory splits Christian colleges across the nation

As you can see, the college has recently allowed its students to be exposed to some heretic ideas, which prompted the complaints of concerned parents and donors, yet its president keeps claiming that GCC, which is affiliated with the Presbyterian Church, is still biblically based Christian in its characteristic. Very interesting. Overall, I am not surprised if Throckmorton is still there.
Not concerning GCC in particular, but it seems that there are quite a few Christian or Christian church-affiliated colleges, both Protestant and Catholic, that don't seem to care much about upholding Christian values.

I'm thinking of many such values that are historically held dear by Christians of all denominations, so I'm not talking about differences over doctrine existing between the various churches.

And of course there is also that point which was raised in the Original Post here about professors teaching quite radical views in class and in publications, etc. as well.

The reason for all of this can only be guessed at, but I'm guessing that it's about money and the school's reputation (with the majority of secular colleges).
 
Upvote 0