are there theological differences between a baptist and an independent baptist?

[sonofedward]

what are the differences between a baptist and a independent baptist when it comes to theology?

 

[Goodbook]

From what I know, independent baptists have a weird thing where they dont want to be part of the body (of christ) and say they dont need other churches, or even recognise other churches. I dont know if its a different theology, but they tend to see the pastor as God which is of course, wrong. This is like having a pope in each church.

Other baptist churches are automonous, but they dont shun other christians like the independents seem to.

 

[Job8]

what are the differences between a baptist and a independent baptist when it comes to theology?

The theology may be very similar (unless theological liberalism has infected a denomination), but the practice is quite different. The primary reason for independent Baptist churches was the compromises found among denominational Baptists. Unfortunately, even the independents have begun to compromise their beliefs more recently.

 

[farout]

what are the differences between a baptist and a independent baptist when it comes to theology?

Welcome the CF by the way, as I see this is a fairly new number of posts you have made.

Excellent question! I have pastored three different Baptist denominational churches in my life as a pastor. So what I can say is by observation only. generally Independent says exactly what they are. Some are loosely connected, but not by denomination. I would think their general choice would be the King James Bible as well as Dispensational Theology. Of course all this is subject to the local congregation determination. I do know in the places where I pastored Independent Churches did not join in any Ministerial activities, such as food banks, or special programs.

I would say they are trying to keep their church and Doctrines as Scripturally pure as possible. Considering how liberal many denominations and Churches have become that's not all bad. As in my lifetime I have seem very sound Gospel Denominations gradually drift into tolerance of unscriptural issues to now accepting and assimilation of unbiblical teachings of Christ.

Now I reckon what you might really be asking. Which is better, Independent or denominational Baptist. There is no clear answer. You must go and hear the preacher, see if you think the Gospel is being preached, as you feel comfortable with it. Church is a very personal thing, in some ways like a marriage, you need to make sure you fit well together before making a commitment. I hope this helps.

 

[Goodbook]

I like that the independents read from KJV but I didnt agree with dispensationalism. It seemed to me like you couldnt find churches that read from KJV and werent dispy. But dispensationalism was coming from a bible that added and also deleted bits to the KJV..the Scofield bible.

The one i go to the pastor reads from CEV. But obviously the members read from the bible translation of their choice. If given the option, i would choose a church that read from CEV over one that read from NIV though.

As for scofield bible, a lot of churches broke away from the rest to teach their own doctrines. This is not just amongst baptists. Others did just compromise the bibles doctrine to follow the way of the world as outlined in seeker friendly churches i.e purpose driven churches. Where they just read from any translation that fits with the pastors agenda. That book was written so pastors can make profit from their churches and fleece the members. I heard many baptists then started going after this 'teaching' and converted their churches to this model.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I heard they are like Southern Baptists, but with exclusivism, KJV only, and stricter on dress and dancing. They also see the SBC as too liberal.

 

[Bluelion]

wow lot of bad answers. Baptist are independent churches every single one of them, there is no structure to baptist every single church has its own board, The church is not connected through a big body of leadership. Every baptist church is different. This is not the best place for answers as you saw from other post you get a lot of bad info.

 

[twin1954]

wow lot of bad answers. Baptist are independent churches every single one of them, there is no structure to baptist every single church has its own board, The church is not connected through a big body of leadership. Every baptist church is different. This is not the best place for answers as you saw from other post you get a lot of bad info.

In theory you are correct. One of the distinctives of Baptists is supposed to autonomy of the local church. But in practice it doesn't quite work. In the SBC most of the buildings are owned by the SBC and the pastors are hired through them and must agree with the Faith and Practice of the SBC.

Theologically speaking the Independent Baptist are varied. Most do seem to be Dispensational and very strict in clothing, music, and general life styles. No drinking, smoking or dancing.

I am an independent Baptist as well but I smoke a pipe and drink wine and beer on occasion. I am Covanental in my theology and Calvinistic in soteriology.

 

[farout]

I heard they are like Southern Baptists, but with exclusivism, KJV only, and stricter on dress and dancing. They also see the SBC as too liberal.

Like any who call themselves "Baptist" it varies. SBC is very loyal to the Scripture as being the very WORD of GOD. As to what Bible they use it is mainly up to the pastor. I would say the NASB, HCSB, NIV and the ESV are probably the most popular of all. My personal preference is the HCSB.

 

[Job8]

I heard they are like Southern Baptists, but with exclusivism, KJV only, and stricter on dress and dancing. They also see the SBC as too liberal.

A lot of independent Baptists did break away from the SBC because it was too liberal. Now the SBC has jumped on the Calvinistic bandwagon (and Calvinism is not Baptist doctrine, since it is founded on Reformed Theology, and the Reformers hated and persecuted the Anabaptists and the Baptists). By definition Baptist churches were not to be a part of any denomination, but that belief went out the window a long time ago. Therefore the independent Baptists are doing what all Baptists should have done always -- be autonomous.

 

[farout]

A lot of independent Baptists did break away from the SBC because it was too liberal. Now the SBC has jumped on the Calvinistic bandwagon (and Calvinism is not Baptist doctrine, since it is founded on Reformed Theology, and the Reformers hated and persecuted the Anabaptists and the Baptists). By definition Baptist churches were not to be a part of any denomination, but that belief went out the window a long time ago. Therefore the independent Baptists are doing what all Baptists should have done always -- be autonomous.

Sorry but...SBC is NOT Calvinistic, it is just like all other Baptist churches, its up to the Church its self. Generalization in an answer is NOT a good answer. You may state that it appears like a certain percent think this way or some other direction. Baptist are independent thinkers and there is so much difference among Baptist that there is only a few things the tie them together. So please do not make such wide generalized statements, or say "I think" or "in my opinion" or for some SBC churches" thank you.

 

[farout]

In theory you are correct. One of the distinctives of Baptists is supposed to autonomy of the local church. But in practice it doesn't quite work. In the SBC most of the buildings are owned by the SBC and the pastors are hired through them and must agree with the Faith and Practice of the SBC.

Theologically speaking the Independent Baptist are varied. Most do seem to be Dispensational and very strict in clothing, music, and general life styles. No drinking, smoking or dancing.

I am an independent Baptist as well but I smoke a pipe and drink wine and beer on occasion. I am Covanental in my theology and Calvinistic in soteriology.

The SBC does not hire the pastor. The pastor is CALLED by the local church. And as such has the right to CALL or Dismiss the pastor at the will of the Church members. The Deacon board is who the Pastor is responsible mainly to and is the high ranking member, as long as they say so. Churches are connected to each other and the state and national conventions by what is referred to as a "Rope of Sand". Which means a church can be associated to the local SBC Association of Churches, or the State SBC or the National SBC or and combination of these, but must be long to one to call themselves a SB Church.

The biggest weakness is there is no way to help a pastor who is having difficulty with a church he pastors. He is a hired hand and can go for a weekend, or take a Wed. off and come back fired in one day. And it happens more than a person can believe. The average pastor stays less than 3 years. Is it any wonder that so many pastors leave the ministry? There are many small churches that need pastors that wind up getting poor to even uneducated pastors as Anyone can be called to be a pastor.

the American Baptist Churches USA have a strict Ordination process that each person seeking Ordination must enter and complete. I have been through it and it is not easy. They also have Pastor Relations Board and when it works, it works well. my concern for ABC USA is it has become very Liberal even accepting gay pastors, and I could not tolerate that. That is why I went to the SBC. The SBC is not without its problems, but no church or group of people meeting in a house church is perfect.

 

[Job8]

Sorry but...SBC is NOT Calvinistic,

I have good reason to state that the SBC is turning Calvinistic. Please see below.

https://soteriology101.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/calvinism-in-the-southern-baptist-convention/

 

[twin1954]

I have good reason to state that the SBC is turning Calvinistic. Please see below.

https://soteriology101.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/calvinism-in-the-southern-baptist-convention/

The problem I see is that what the writer calls traditionalist is not actually. When the SBC was formed and became a separate group its founders were all Calvinists. The three men who started Southern Seminary in Louisville, Ky. were all Calvinists and had to sign the doctrinal statement that clearly expressed Calvinism. J. P. Boyce, the first professor of theology and co-founder at Southern wrote "Abstract of Systematic Theology", which was the first theology book I ever owned, and it is very clearly Calvinistic. Others such as J. L Dagg who wrote "A Manuel of Theology" was also a Calvinist. The person who is most often used when quoting a concordance A. H. Strong was a Calvinist. Orvil Nave who wrote a very good topical Bible was a Calvinist.

In short the SBC started out as Calvinists and fell into Arminianism and later liberalism but is now coming back to its roots.

I am not a member of the SBC and don't care to be but I have studied SBC history. The writer of the article linked to is using a victim mentality and crying foul by setting up a straw man. Calvinism is not new in the SBC.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The belief comes first, then - if at all - the label. Not the other way round.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I heard they are like Southern Baptists, but with exclusivism, KJV only, and stricter on dress and dancing. They also see the SBC as too liberal.

Baptists have in the past tended to be strongly in favor of independent congregations, as in the New Testament. Within independent congregations, there are also independent-minded believers in a whole range of things. So I'm not sure how effective labels are, really.

Yes, the KJV tends to be highly favored by many baptists and people from independent congregations.

 

[Omah1970]

From what I know, independent baptists have a weird thing where they dont want to be part of the body (of christ) and say they dont need other churches, or even recognise other churches. I dont know if its a different theology, but they tend to see the pastor as God which is of course, wrong. This is like having a pope in each church.

Other baptist churches are automonous, but they dont shun other christians like the independents seem to.

Been there done that was raised in an IB Church and my congregation aka family members acted like and treat my pastor uncle as if he hung the moon. And if it wasn't IB it was rigorously ridiculed and preached against whether it was Evangelical, Fundamentalist etc. Mentioning Pentecostalism and Catholicism was inviting Satan to knock on your back door. It hurt me very emotionally and mentally with what I experienced. I still deal with a lot of anger and distrust toward my denominational background.

 

[Omah1970]

Been there done that was raised in an IB Church and my congregation aka family members acted like and treat my pastor uncle as if he hung the moon. And if it wasn't IB it was rigorously ridiculed and preached against whether it was Evangelical, Fundamentalist etc. Mentioning Pentecostalism and Catholicism was inviting Satan to knock on your back door. It hurt me very emotionally and mentally with what I experienced. I still deal with a lot of anger and distrust toward my denominational background.

And anything outside of Southern Gospel music and King James wasn't worthy of consideration so I did like King David and fled

 

[Goodbook]

Well there's no law against reading a KJV in any church, its just that maybe the pastor won't use it always to preach from.

Not sure about the southern gospel music thing. I don't know if there's such a thing as Northern Gospel, but then I don't live in the US. They seem very divided still, despite being named 'United' states of America.

I think the combination of being called by the members and being officially ordained by elders would be best. I mean Timothy was exhorted to study to shew himself approved.
There has to be some checks and balances otherwise it would be very easy to have false preachers in churches. Paul was called by God, but he also learned for 14 years before going on his missions. Timothy, his son in the faith, had studied scriptures from a young age.

 

[farout]

Baptists have in the past tended to be strongly in favor of independent congregations, as in the New Testament. Within independent congregations, there are also independent-minded believers in a whole range of things. So I'm not sure how effective labels are, really.

Yes, the KJV tends to be highly favored by many baptists and people from independent congregations.

I honestly think from my experience in the Conservative Baptist, and Southern Baptists, the NASB, HCSB, ESV and the NIV would be the top three. Some older pastors use the KJV but it has fallen out of favor. If a southern Baptist Pastor has been to a SBC seminary I can say for sure the KJV is not used. I use the HCSB and the NASB and I will look at the 1985 NIV and the ESV, but maybe twice a year I will look at my moms KJV Bible.