Are there spiritual fathers in our time?

[ArmyMatt]

Well I think it kind of is, just in a spiritual way, not in a dogmatic or canonically expressed way.



Oh I didn't notice the word "Beget", I guess thats reserved only for God begetting the son? Is there a reason why it can't be used more broadly, since I thought God being begotten wasn't defined, its just a mystery?

no, the discussion started because it was stated that theosis is required in order to be a bishop. that’s just not true. obviously, every bishop (and the rest of us) should strive for it.

and humans can’t beget the divine nature since it is divine and we are creatures.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have gained my knowledge through reading much material over two years, attending divine liturgy, and experiencing the tradition which was handed down to the church.

I knew that it was not just a matter of doing some reading, and that the Orthodox mindset must be developed. I thought that I had achieved that somewhat when I became able to answer criticisms towards Orthodoxy even amongst Protestant theologians who had spent many years studying Orthodoxy, but here is the thing, they never converted, and I felt that had they really understood, they would have converted like Juroslav Pelikan who I am enjoying reading presently.

Paul says husbands should love their wives. It means that it is God's will, same as theosis in bishops.

that’s still an incomplete knowledge as far as this goes.

and should doesn’t mean requires. a husband who doesn’t love his wife is still her husband.

 

[bmjackson]

Speechless.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Speechless.

sorry, but what do you mean?

 

[bmjackson]

I will say one thing more: I am so pleased that the Lord stopped me from joining the Orthodox church. When the true church goes down, the world goes down. Talking to you has confirmed my fears. Time to go.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I will say one thing more: I am so pleased that the Lord stopped me from joining the Orthodox church. When the true church goes down, the world goes down. Talking to you has confirmed my fears. Time to go.

I am sorry you feel that way, but you can’t get our theology and history wrong, and then get upset when someone points it out.

 

[bmjackson]

Well Father, you had better write to the FB group that studies Fr John Romanides' writings as they are all Orthodox believers and are in agreement with me. Now this really is the last.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

You say nothing about sinlessness.

I said nothing about sinlessness because it depends what you mean by that, and I dont personally define theosis by those terms.

God is life and love. Sin is death and hate. To be sinless in one sense is to be love. God is love itself, and we are to become love itself. We are to become uncreated. Theosis is to become god.

On Paul, I believe that God said that to give Paul comfort, as Paul was obviously troubled and not at peace, the result of not following the Spirit and was telling him that if fact he would not die.

Are you saying God lied to him? "As you testified about me" Clearly shows that the reason Paul was sent to Jerusalem was to testify about christ. He even purposely called upon Caesar later to testify in front of him, when he could've just gotten off scot free. If you are actually saying that he was sent by demonic spirits to Jerusalem to testify for christ, how is that not just as bad as those who claimed that when Jesus cast out demons it was because he had demons himself? There are too many false assumptions to count here.

I will say one thing more: I am so pleased that the Lord stopped me from joining the Orthodox church.

I hope you will reconsider. Without the orthodox church you have no way to justify biblical interpretation. Without the orthodox church you have no way to know for certain that its the lord who leads you. Without the unique orthodox theology of essence and energy, there is no justification or possibility of knowledge itself. Without orthodox theosis you will never have true union with God. Without orthodoxy the only thing left is solipsistic nihilism.

Heaven and hell are the same thing, experience of gods love. The orthodox church is thus literally heaven and hell on earth. You may have unfortunately experienced some of hell, but that hellfire is the same fire of heaven.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well Father, you had better write to the FB group that studies Fr John Romanides' writings as they are all Orthodox believers and are in agreement with me. Now this really is the last.

I tend to avoid FB groups as a source of primary info. plus, I know many groups that agree with me. I also know many clergy and academics who are far smarter and more spiritually experienced than me, who I listen to.

to say there’s a Romanides FB group as if that’s some kind of trump card is silly.

 

[bmjackson]

I said nothing about sinlessness because it depends what you mean by that, and I dont personally define theosis by those terms.

God is life and love. Sin is death and hate. To be sinless in one sense is to be love. God is love itself, and we are to become love itself. We are to become uncreated. Theosis is to become god.



Are you saying God lied to him? "As you testified about me" Clearly shows that the reason Paul was sent to Jerusalem was to testify about christ. He even purposely called upon Caesar later to testify in front of him, when he could've just gotten off scot free. If you are actually saying that he was sent by demonic spirits to Jerusalem to testify for christ, how is that not just as bad as those who claimed that when Jesus cast out demons it was because he had demons himself? There are too many false assumptions to count here.



I hope you will reconsider. Without the orthodox church you have no way to justify biblical interpretation. Without the orthodox church you have no way to know for certain that its the lord who leads you. Without the unique orthodox theology of essence and energy, there is no justification or possibility of knowledge itself. Without orthodox theosis you will never have true union with God. Without orthodoxy the only thing left is solipsistic nihilism.

Heaven and hell are the same thing, experience of gods love. The orthodox church is thus literally heaven and hell on earth. You may have unfortunately experienced some of hell, but that hellfire is the same fire of heaven.

The most unhuman attribute of God is His holiness, that is His sinlessness and if a man is united with Him the man must be holy also and not by the Reformed sense of imputed holiness but imparted as the NT is so clear about.

I looked up the verses in question instead of just remembering them:

Acts 23:11 The following night the Lord stood by him and said, “Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome.”

It does not say that God told Paul to go, just that he did go and he did testify after the warnings beforehand of which one was said to come from the Spirit, 21:11 and would eventually get to Rome, in order to encourage Paul. Paul ended up in prison which was disastrous as he was the leading missionary.

I have no choice regarding attending liturgy as I am too sick to travel and old. The Lord makes compensation for this. I am associating with Orthodox believers online and studying the theologians. I am following the early Fathers interpretation of scripture as my authority and the Spirit within me and scripture confirms it to me. I know what is the normal way but God is not hindered when one is sincere and unable to do things in the normal way during times when He exercises His economy. In past times hermits were able to communicate okay with God without other humans.

 

[Lukaris]

If a person is stuck between a rock and a hard place that prevents him or her from common worship and sacrament, I don’t think anyone is judging that person who is restricted. So many people do not even know the Orthodox Church exists. It is ludicrous to assume our salvation and not that of non Orthodox Christians or non Christians. The thing is only God can search the hearts of every individual ( Romans 2 etc.). What we lack in resources, logistics, (in certain instances) proper evangelism, hospitality etc. we must apply our alms giving, prayer & fasting as intercession for our neighbor and ourselves.