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Are there any magicians who do "real" magic?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Sink' started by His student, May 23, 2019.

  1. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    I like magic tricks. I understand that what I am being entertained with are actually elaborate stunts and is not "real".

    But some magicians in particular seem to revel in the illusion that they are actually practicing the "dark" arts. Criss Angel and David Blaine come to mind. Even David Copperfield tries to put out the idea that he is somehow in touch with the "dark side" (although it usually just makes me laugh a little when he tries to put on a "scary" face.

    We don't need to revisit the magicians of Egypt who confronted Moses. We all know that it is technically possible to do things with the aid of the dark side.

    But, in your opinion or experience, are there real magic abilities being practiced by anyone currently in Las Vegas or anywhere else you can think of?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  2. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Define 'magic', please.
     
  3. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    Magic is all about illusion and theater and the claim to supernatural powers is part of that.
     
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  4. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Those comments are attributes based on your opinion.

    Please define "magic".
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    In the religious sense, magic is the belief that supernatural powers can be induced to do the will of a human person by performing certain rituals. No, I do not believe in this sort of magic.
     
  6. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

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    No.

    That was easy.
     
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  7. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    Sorcerers and people who use Grimoires (Spell Books) like The Goetia to summon demons and have them do things for them are thrown into The Lake of Fire along with murderers, liars etc.
    Goetia - Wikipedia


    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, Sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars Shall Have Their Part In The Lake Which Burns With Fire And Brimstone, which is the second death."
    Revelation 21:8

    [​IMG]






    But Elymas The Sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.
    • Acts 13:8


    But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously Practiced Sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great,
    • Acts 8:9

    The Death of Simon Magus : Simon Magus - Wikipedia


    Cyril of Jerusalem (346 A.D.) in the sixth of his Catechetical Lectures prefaces his history of the Manichaeans by a brief account of earlier heresies: "Simon Magus, he says, had given out that he was going to be translated to heaven, And Was Actually Careening Through The Air In A Chariot Drawn By Demons when Peter and Paul knelt down and prayed, and their prayers brought him to earth a mangled corpse."






    • Jannes and Jambres
    Jannes and Jambres - Wikipedia



    Then The Magicians of Egypt did so with their Enchantments; and Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
    Exodus 7:22


    Now As Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
    2 Timothy 3:8






    • The Witch / Medium of Endor
    in 1 Samuel 28 that uses Necromancy.








    Stand now With Your Enchantments
    And The Multitude Of YOUR SORCERIES,
    In which you have labored from your youth

    Perhaps you will be able to profit,
    Perhaps you will prevail.
    You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels;
    Let now The Astrologers, The Stargazers,
    And The Monthly Prognosticators
    Stand up and save you
    From what shall come upon you.
    Behold, They Shall Be As Stubble,
    The Fire Shall Burn Them;
    They shall not deliver themselves
    From The Power Of The Flame;

    It shall not be a coal to be warmed by,
    Nor a fire to sit before!
    Isaiah 47:12-14

    [​IMG]






    Saint Cyprian was A Former Sorcerer (3rd Century A.D.)
    who Repented and was baptized into The Church. Justina of Antioch is a Christian Saint, known for converting Cyprian, The Pagan Magician of Antioch.

    Saint Justina was able to defeat Cyprian's demonic attacks through The Sign of The Cross, Prayer and Fasting :

    Saints Cyprian and Justina and what we can learn from their story as Christians

    The Lives of Sts. Cyprian and Justina

    Making The Sign Of The Cross (Orthodox Videos)








    Use The Sign Of The Cross as A Weapon against it :


    • Athanasius of Alexandria (296-373 A.D.)

    (On The Incarnation Of The Word - 31)
    "By The Sign Of The Cross All Magic Is Stopped, and All Witchcraft Brought To Nought, and all the idols are being deserted and left, and every unruly pleasure is checked, and every one is looking up from earth to heaven."


    • Athanasius - Life of St Anthony - par 78 (296-373 ad)
    But we by the mention of Christ crucified put all demons to flight, whom you fear as if they were gods. Where The Sign Of The Cross Is, Magic Is Weak And Witchcraft Has No Strength.


    • Athanasius of Alexandria (269-373 A.D.)
    "By the signing of the holy and life-giving cross, devils and various scourges are driven away. For it is without price and without cost and praises him who can say it. The holy fathers have, by their words, transmitted to us, and even to the unbelieving heretics, how the two raised fingers and the single hand reveal Christ our God in His dual nature but single substance. The right hand proclaims His immeasurable strength, His sitting on the right hand of the Father, and His coming down unto us from Heaven. Again, by the movement of the hands to our right the enemies of God will be driven out, as the Lord triumphs over the Devil with His inconquerable power, rendering him dismal and weak."


    • Athanasius - Life of St Anthony - Par 23 (296-373 A.D.)
    'The demons, therefore, if they see all Christians, and monks especially, labouring cheerfully and advancing, first make an attack by temptation and place hindrances to hamper our way, to wit, evil thoughts. But we need not fear their suggestions, for by prayer, fasting, and faith in the Lord their attack immediately fails. But even when it does they cease not, but knavishly by subtlety come on again. For when they cannot deceive the heart openly with foul pleasures they approach in different guise, and thenceforth shaping displays they attempt to strike fear, changing their shapes, taking the forms of women, wild beasts, creeping things, gigantic bodies, and troops of soldiers. But not even then need you fear their deceitful displays. For they are nothing and quickly disappear, especially if a man fortify himself beforehand with faith and The Sign Of The Cross."



    • Saint Athanasius The Great, Archbishop of Alexandria
    (296-373 A.D.)


    [​IMG]




    Making The Sign Of The Cross (Orthodox Videos)

     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  8. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    Also use The Jesus Prayer to fight against it :






     
  9. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    Donald Trump made any evidence that his campaign colluded with Russia disappear. That's as real a magic trick as you'll ever see.
     
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  10. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I really enjoyed the lake of fire and Terminator 2 visuals in that post lol
     
  11. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have been so blown away by some people who have just done certain card tricks in front of me, I could not even image a Chris Angel coming up to me and doing that level of tricks. I almost doubt whether the camera or the bystanders are not in on it somehow, the tricks just seem too amazing.
     
  12. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance. Supporter

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    My great grandad was awesome at making a bone disappear!
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Since there's no such thing as magic, then no, there are no magicians doing "real magic".

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  14. MehGuy

    MehGuy Free speech warrior degenerate Supporter

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    The only magicians I can think of who are actually magical would be Penn and Teller, lol.
     
  15. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Well, I know for a fact that if I was in command of the dark arts, and was able to conjure demons to do my will and enchant people, then the first thing I'd do is put on a stupid spangly outfit, stand on a stage, and entertain a bunch of fat tourists.
     
  16. BioLeap

    BioLeap The Linchpin

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    It's called the International Brotherhood Of Magicians.
     
  17. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    That's kinda my point. Some magic does seem so amazing that one is forced to wonder if there really is some help from the enemy. Of course - that's the point of a really good trick and it works.
    Most magicians use a wand to make things disappear. But Hillary Clinton prefers hammers.
    What is?
    And don't forget to rake in millions of dollars along the way to becoming a celebrity - not to mention all the Las Vegas showgirl action you can stand.:)
    Like I said, it really shouldn't be necessary to revisit the biblical examples. But apparently I was wrong.
    I'm not sure who that first comment is aimed at. So I don't know what "opinions" you are referring to. Care to elaborate?

    I would have thought it was obvious what is meant by magic. It's like some have said.

    Magic is the illusion that a performer is getting assistance from the supernatural to do "miracles". Usually that means supernatural forces other than God Himself.

    What I mean by "real" magic is that such supernatural forces are actually at work on behalf of any particular performer as they were in the examples we have in the scriptures.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  18. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    No no no, thats not how you increase the numbers! You do kids birthday parties and bar mitzvahs!
     
  19. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, it's all trickery. Various levels of entertainment.
     
  20. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Science is a form of magic or sorcery, the attempt to manipulate the elements for our benefit and harm.

    Scientists brought down fire from the stars and it's called nuclear fusion.

    That's the real magic.
     
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