Are their modern examples of people speaking in tongues, healing, etc...?

[LivingWordUnity]

I think the problem is that you're leaving off the last part of the term, "experience."

Experience is something we feel consciously.

Although the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is supernatural, it's not necessarily a felt experience, even though sanctifying grace is given at the time.

Sometimes we may feel supernatural consolations after we received the Body of Christ, it doesn't always happen consciously and when it does, it's a gift.

But even then, the consolation is never given preference over the giver of consolation.

But I don't think I agree with your assertion that an "experience" necessarily has to be something we can feel with our senses. While most experiences can be felt with our senses, I think we still experience something that happens to us even if we didn't feel it with our senses.

 

[St_Barnabus]

But I don't think I agree with your assertion that an "experience" necessarily has to be something we can feel with our senses. While most experiences can be felt with our senses, I think we still experience something that happens to us even if we didn't feel it with our senses.

This is really becoming problematic, since Jim and I have been speaking about apples, while you tend to deviate into oranges. The reason we used the word "experience" is because that is the essence under consideration from St. John's writings, although he also uses the word "apprehensions" to describe that which may be apprehended by either the exterior or interior senses. He insists that all should be rejected, which is the only point we have consistently been making.

Here are St. John's own words, although this is only a tiny excerpt quoted from one single chapter of an entire book. He indeed speaks of "experience" as being something "apprehended by the senses." (Read the whole chapter, as it is too long to reprint here just to make a point.) Ascent of Mount Carmel - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

2. And it must be known that, although all these things may happen to the bodily senses in the way of God, we must never rely upon them or accept them, but must always fly from them, without trying to ascertain whether they be good or evil; for, the more completely exterior and corporeal they are, the less certainly are they of God.

7. The soul, then, must never presume to desire to receive them, even though, as I say, they be of God; for, if it desire to receive them, there follow six inconveniences.

8. It is always well, then, that the soul should reject these things, and close its eyes to them, whencesoever they come. For, unless it does so, it will prepare the way for those things that come from the devil, and will give him such influence that, not only will his visions come in place of God’s, but his visions will begin to increase, and those of God to cease, in such manner that the devil will have all the power and God will have none.

 

[pdudgeon]

nm

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Then Jesus said, "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear." Mark 4:9

There's no point in debating the issue further.

Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

This is really becoming problematic, since Jim and I have been speaking about apples, while you tend to deviate into oranges. The reason we used the word "experience" is because that is the essence under consideration from St. John's writings, although he also uses the word "apprehensions" to describe that which may be apprehended by either the exterior or interior senses. He insists that all should be rejected, which is the only point we have consistently been making.

Here are St. John's own words, although this is only a tiny excerpt quoted from one single chapter of an entire book. He indeed speaks of "experience" as being something "apprehended by the senses." (Read the whole chapter, as it is too long to reprint here just to make a point.) Ascent of Mount Carmel - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Where does he say that it's not possible to have an experience without experiencing it with our senses?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Then Jesus said, "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear." Mark 4:9

There's no point in debating the issue further.

Jim

I hear you and agree with your point that we shouldn't seek supernatural consolations for our senses.

 

[St_Barnabus]

Where does he say that it's not possible to have an experience without experiencing it with our senses?

There are both interior and exterior senses, and I know of nothing that he wrote stating that an "apprehension" is unattainable other than in the senses. It would take a book to explain his teaching, and we don't have time or space. If you wish to understand this saint, I would recommend Ascent of Mt. Carmel.

I still get the feeling you are adverting to spiritual realities belonging to faith, (with which St. John, Jim and I would agree with you) rather than those the Saint refers to that may be apprehended. It may comfort you to ponder that he always leads the soul to purity and darkness of faith, advising that they lay no hold upon those spiritual things that may be "experienced" in the senses, whether interior or exterior. I make one very important distinction in his teaching, whereby the recollection of the gift of pure contemplation ought not to be set aside in the same manner that he counsels concerning the corporal ones that are received. Note that this is one single paragraph out of an entire book where he gives this advice; whereas, the whole book teaches about the dangers of dwelling in one's consciousness of the apprehensions received in any other manner than infused contemplation.

And in this case the soul will make account, not of feelings of sweetness or delight, nor of figures, but of the feelings of love which they cause it. And with this sole end in view it may at times recall that image and apprehension caused it by love, in order to set the spirit on its course of love. For, though the effect of that apprehension be not so great afterwards, when it is recalled, as it was on the first occasion when it was communicated, yet, when it is recalled, love is renewed, and the mind is lifted up to God, especially when the recollection is of certain figures, images or feelings which are supernatural, and are wont to be sealed and imprinted upon the soul in such a way that they continue for a long time -- some of them, indeed, never leave the soul.

And those that are thus sealed upon the soul produce in it Divine effects of love, sweetness, light and so forth, on almost every occasion when the soul returns to them, sometimes more so and sometimes less; for it was to this end that they were impressed upon it. And thus this is a great favour for the soul on which God bestows it, for it is as though it had within itself a mine of blessings.

 

[St_Barnabus]

umm no! the topic was oranges and you and Jim changed it to apples, and then were a bit put out when we didn't switch the topic.
that's called derailing a thread. please stop.

When you become Catholic and have read St. John's writings, you might be qualified to pass judgment on others.
Meanwhile, you would do well to reflect on this post. http://www.christianforums.com/t7877300/#post67431494

 

[pdudgeon]

nm

 

[Tigg]

IMO, I would rather understand one word than listen to something I don't understand. To each their own. As for healing, yes it can happen BUT I caution that one must go straight to their Dr. for verification. Not quit meds but have the Dr. OK it. I had a friend die because she believed she was healed and appeared to get better. Oh don't go to the Dr. as that would show you have no faith she was told. Yeah (very sarcastic) Her Leukemia came back - the symptoms - like a whirlwind. She finally then went to the Dr. and there was nothing they could do and she died witrhin 2 days. So verify your healing first and immediately. I believe Dr's do God work and am thankful for them. Ber careful out there.

 

[Galilee63]

No Jim - that is termed "Faith" and "Trust" in Jesus Christ our Saviour/God/The Holy Spirit and "receiving" Jesus into our Hearts as opposed to just "minds". There is a great difference. People of whom receive Stigmata or any experiences pertaining to Jesus Christ our Saviour, His bitter Passion, His Sorrowful Stations of His Cross, His Sufferings, Agonies while believing and trusting in Jesus Christ our Saviour are receiving these most Loving Blessed Holy occurrences from Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit.

One does not need to "see" the Stigmata but can rather "feel" Stigmata and Jesus' Sorrows, Agonies and Sufferings within one's own relationship with Jesus Christ our Saviour from my own experience and within my relationship with Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and The Blessed Virgin Mary.

Those who focus on Jesus Christ our Saviour's bitter Passion, His Sorrows, His Sufferings, His Agonies, His Agonies in the Garden of Gethsemane, thinking about what was going through Jesus' Heart and Mind at the time of His Agony, Jesus' Last Supper when He was virtually saying a temporary goodbye to His Disciples, while establishing and explaining His New Covenant and Holy Eucharist/Host, the Holy Visions of future mankind's atrocious mortal and venial sins, Jesus' anguish in fulfilling God's Holy Decree and New Covenant, all those things, "Opens one's own Heart to Receive Jesus into their Heart' and thus "Feels" His Sorrows, Anguish, Sufferings, and this can be manifested into the physical as testified by Children, Saints, Adults around the world over the centuries.

It is your choice as a person to believe or distrust in Mikhaels personal accounts when Mikhael prays to Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary in trust of which has opened Mikhael's "Heart" to "Receive Jesus into his heart" not just his "mind". There is an incredible difference Jim.

Jesus/God and The Blessed Virgin Mary have been encouraging people all over the world to follow these steps during Prayer from our hearts in order to "Receive Jesus into our Hearts" not just in Prayer repetition from our minds without focussing on Jesus Himself, His bitter Passion, His Sorrowful Stations of His Cross, Jesus' Agony in the Garden of Gethsemane, His sufferings during prayer and during meditation of His Most Blessed Sacrament.

Praying and talking to Jesus while doing these things is the way to receiving Jesus and His Sorrows and Sufferings which flood and illuminate our Hearts and Minds growing closer to Him. Jesus then Blesses with certain Holy Signs flowing through us while focussing on Him, His bitter Passion and Sorrowful Stations of His Cross - parts of Him flowing through our hearts and bodies.

How sad when we all come face to face with Jesus, God The Most High and The Holy Spirit with God's Loving Holy Signs given by Him and those were ignored? There are no excuses with God our Heavenly Father. God works through His Children - young Children, primary school aged Children, Teenagers, Adults and most powerfully within His Christian Ministry and Missionary works to open up the hearts of His Children regardless of belief and or trust. When these Holy Signs are ignored continually, God our Heavenly Father gives us His Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God as a last means of salvation to that person. When The Blessed Virgin Mary is ignored, despite our Heavenly Mother Mary's Holy messages from God The Most High...well then...we face that at judgement.

The Most Holy Rosary was given by God to The Blessed Virgin Mary for mankind to pray as the last means of Salvation, to focus on Jesus Himself, His bitter Passion, His Sorrowful Stations of His Cross in order to grow closer to receive Jesus into our Hearts and in order for Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary to intercede during judgement with God. These symptoms of receiving Jesus into our Hearts are all unique, special Blessings, Gifts and Graces given by God The Most High and The Holy Spirit while numerous.

Blessed are those who believe without seeing and did not Jesus ask us all to trust in others and not be suspicious of others?

Do you pray The Most Holy Rosary daily or thrice daily while focussing on Jesus' bitter Passion, His Sorrows, His Agonies and His Stations of His Cross to receive Him most powerfully? Focussing on Jesus' life, while asking Jesus to open your Heart and receive Him into your Heart with trust brings about many feelings in the heart and with many people 'physical' Holy Signs from God.

What have been your experiences/symptoms/heart/emotional/physical Jim?

What are your emotions and what does your Heart feel when you focus on Jesus and think about His Life and Sufferings Jim?

We need to trust others and their personal experiences, if they are praying to Jesus His Divine Mercy Chaplet while focussing on His bitter Passion and The Blessed Virgin Mary Her Most Holy Rosary while focussing on Jesus' bitter Passion.

Every time I am praying to Jesus and talking with Jesus at the commencement of His Divine Mercy Chaplet and Holy Rosary to Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, Jesus requests:

"Focus on my Passion My Child/My Daughter.

Other times Jesus uses my Christian Name that He gave me, when really pleased with me.

Jesus' bitter Passion.

Always.

Because, Jesus is telling me that this opens up my heart to receive Him into my heart most powerfully.

Then follows all of His Loving most Holy feelings and sensations.

Love and kindest wishes your Sister in Jesus Christ our Saviour

 

[St_Barnabus]

Do you pray The Most Holy Rosary daily or thrice daily while focussing on Jesus' bitter Passion, His Sorrows, His Agonies and His Stations of His Cross to receive Him most powerfully?

What have been your experiences/symptoms/heart/emotional/physical Jim?

What are your emotions and what does your Heart feel when you focus on Jesus and think about His Life and Sufferings Jim?

I am appalled that you are soliciting this information from Jim! Who appointed you as his confessor, that he should submit to your very personal questions of his spirituality?