LDS Are the Two Natures of Jesus Denied by Mormons?

[Rescued One]

Your teachers, Peter1000, misinterpret those words.

Luke 13
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

the third day I shall be perfected ] The word teleioumai has been variously rendered and explained. Bleek makes it mean ‘I shall end’ (my work in Galilee); Godet,
‘I am being perfected,’ in the sense of ‘I shall arrive at the destined end of my work;’ Resch, ‘] complete my work’ by one crowning miracle (John 11:40-44). This solemn meaning best accords with other usages of the word, e.g. in the cry from the Cross
tetelestai, ‘It is finished’ (John 19:30). See too Hebrews 5:9; Hebrews 11:40.
Teleiosis became an ecclesiastical term for ‘martyrdom.’
Luke 13 Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

 

[Rescued One]

In LDS theology, God has taken spirit and intelligence that have existed forever, and moulded those elements into a cohesive, intelligent being, whose nature is the same as God himself. IOW God has perpetuated his species.

Earlier leaders did not say the intelligences were identical.

As His spirit children, He wants us to grow up to be like Him and do the things that He does, and live the way He does. He does not want to be a puppet-master with a string attached to each child. He wants us to be willing to do His will and live as He has commanded, without having to be given everything or having to pull the strings to make sure you do.

I've never met anyone who believed that God is a puppet master; there are many people out there whose beliefs I don't know.

You can see this type of problem in rich families. The parents give everything to their children and the children turn out to be unresponsible people and useless to our society.

Giving children what they need doesn't create irresponsible people. Jesus gives His sheep everything they need and teaches us to also feed His sheep.

My God shall supply all my need beginning with faith.

God wants all of his children to return to Him, however, they must be responsible people and do what He has commanded them to do.

Where is the verse that claims humans return to God?

So He has to walk a tightrope. If He is too harsh, few will be saved.

Whoever heard of the true God being less than perfect? Mine isn't. He doesn't walk a tightrope!

If He makes it so that all are saved, how many of them will be responsible people like Him.

Your god is fictional.

Remember, the goal is to perpetuate his species to become like Him. Not to be a puppet-master, and create a race of robots.

Are people who obey the same laws robots?

 

[Rescued One]

In LDS theology, God has taken spirit and intelligence that have existed forever, and moulded those elements into a cohesive, intelligent being, whose nature is the same as God himself. IOW God has perpetuated his species.

Created beings aren't God's species. We aren't Gods in embryo.

 

[BigDaddy4]

In LDS theology, God has taken spirit and intelligence that have existed forever, and moulded those elements into a cohesive, intelligent being, whose nature is the same as God himself. IOW God has perpetuated his species.

As His spirit children, He wants us to grow up to be like Him and do the things that He does, and live the way He does. He does not want to be a puppet-master with a string attached to each child. He wants us to be willing to do His will and live as He has commanded, without having to be given everything or having to pull the strings to make sure you do. You can see this type of problem in rich families. The parents give everything to their children and the children turn out to be unresponsible people and useless to our society.
God wants all of his children to return to Him, however, they must be responsible people and do what He has commanded them to do. So He has to walk a tightrope. If He is too harsh, few will be saved. If He makes it so that all are saved, how many of them will be responsible people like Him. Not many???
Remember, the goal is to perpetuate his species to become like Him. Not to be a puppet-master, and create a race of robots.

Which is why lds theology is unBiblical. None of this can be found in the Bible. A different gospel indeed...

 

[Peter1000]

Your teachers, Peter1000, misinterpret those words.

Luke 13
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

the third day I shall be perfected ] The word teleioumai has been variously rendered and explained. Bleek makes it mean ‘I shall end’ (my work in Galilee); Godet,
‘I am being perfected,’ in the sense of ‘I shall arrive at the destined end of my work;’ Resch, ‘] complete my work’ by one crowning miracle (John 11:40-44). This solemn meaning best accords with other usages of the word, e.g. in the cry from the Cross
tetelestai, ‘It is finished’ (John 19:30). See too Hebrews 5:9; Hebrews 11:40.
Teleiosis became an ecclesiastical term for ‘martyrdom.’
Luke 13 Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

Of course they would, they are good Nicean Christians. The word 'perfect' is not to be used in Christianity. So lets twist this scripture to whatever we decide 'perfected' is except what perfected actually means. And they did it. So you now interpret that scripture to mean, Jesus's mission will be fulfilled. Instead of Jesus will be perfected, which it actually says.

The reason you twist so hard is because to you believe that Jesus is God, but God could not be God if he were not perfected already. So you have to twist the words of Jesus to another meaning to avoid that nervous problem.

 

[Peter1000]

Which is why lds theology is unBiblical. None of this can be found in the Bible. A different gospel indeed...

Who were the sons of God in Job 1:6, who presented themselves before the Lord?
1) angels
2) add creatures of the universe
3) spirit sons of God

Where are these sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord?
1) on the earth
2) in heaven

What time frame are we talking about?
1) before the earth
2) during the earth
3) after the earth

 

[Peter1000]

Which is why lds theology is unBiblical. None of this can be found in the Bible. A different gospel indeed...

The pre-existence, and the whole plan of salvation is also part of the 'meat' that Paul was trying to give to the Corinthians that they refused to hear.

So just because it is not explicitly in the bible does not make it untrue. Remember Jesus is not restricted from what he said in the bible.

 

[Rescued One]

The pre-existence, and the whole plan of salvation is also part of the 'meat' that Paul was trying to give to the Corinthians that they refused to hear.

So just because it is not explicitly in the bible does not make it untrue. Remember Jesus is not restricted from what he said in the bible.

Meat is NOT FALSE DOCTRINE!

 

[Rescued One]

Job 1
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(6) Sons of God.--Comp. Job 38:7, Genesis 6:2; Genesis 6:4; and for the sense comp. 1Kings 22:19. The phrase probably means the angels; or at all events an incident in the unseen spiritual world is referred to simultaneous with a corresponding one on earth. (Comp. 1Corinthians 11:10.) In the latter sense, a solemn thought is suggested by it to those who join in the public worship of God.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 6. - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. By "the sons of God" it is generally admitted that, in this place, the angels are meant (so again in Job 38:7). The meaning of the phrase is probably different in Genesis 6:2. Angels and men are alike "sons of God," as created by him, in his image, to obey and serve him. Christ, the "Only Begotten," is his Son in quite a different sense. We may gather, perhaps, from this place and Job 2:1 that there are fixed times at which the angelic host, often sent out by the Almighty on distant errands, has to gather together, one and all, before the great white throne, to pay homage to their Lord, and probably to give an account of their doings. And Satan came also among them. The word "Satan" has the article prefixed to it השׂתן here and elsewhere in Job, as in Zechariah 3:1, 2 and in Luke 22:31; Revelation 12:9. Thus accompanied, it is less a proper name than an appellative - "the adversary" (comp. 1 Peter 5:8; ὁ ἀντίδικος). In 1 Chronicles 21:1, without the article, it is undoubtedly a proper name, as in the New Testament, passim. Accusation of men before God is one of the special offices of the evil spirit (see Zechariah 3:1, 2), who is "the accuser of the brethren, he that accuses them before God day and night" (Revelation 12:10). The accusations that he makes may be either true or false, but they are so often false that his ordinary New Testament name is ὁ διάβολος, "the Slanderer." The existence of an evil spirit must have been known to all who read or heard the story of the fall of man (Genesis 3.), and the descriptive epithet, "the Adversary," is likely to have been in use from a very early date. The notion that the Satan of the Old Testament is a reflex of the Persian Ahriman, and that the Jews derived their belief upon the subject from the Persians, is quite untenable. The character and position of Satan in the Hebrew system are quite unlike those of Ahriman (Angro-mainyus) in the religion of the Zoroastrians (see 'Ancient Monarchies,' vol. 3. pp. 104-113).

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus was fully human.

Until he was crucified and was resurrected, he was not fully God. There are many scriptures that testify of that. Scriptures from the bible that testify of this very doctrine.
Here is just one:
Luke 13:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

You cannot say that Jesus was fully God before he was fully perfected. Right?

This is a good example of why archaic English translations can be unreliable.

Jesus says "καὶ τῇ τρίτῃ τελειοῦμαι", "and the third [day] I complete [it]". The key word here is τελειοῦμαι, it does not mean "perfect" in the sense of achieving some kind of higher status, or anything like that, it refers to accomplishing, reaching the end of a particular task or goal, to finish a thing.

We can see this in how many translations render this:

"and on the third day I will reach my goal." - NIV
"and the third day I will accomplish my purpose." - NLT
"and the third day I finish my course." - ESV
"and the third day I reach My goal." - NASB
"and on the third day I will complete My work." - HCSB
"and on the third day I will finish my work." - ISV
"and on the third day I will complete my work." - NET Bible
"and the third day I am consummated." - Douay-Rheims
"and on the third day I finish my work." - NRSV
"and on the thridde dai Y am endid." - Wycliffe
"and vpo the thirde daye shal I make an ende:" - Coverdale
"and the third daye I make an ende." - Tyndale
"Vnd am dritten tage werde ich ein ende nemen." - 1545 Lutherbibel (literally "I will take an end")
"et tertia consummor." - Vulgate (literally "and [the] third I make consummate")

The use of "perfected" is fine in and of itself, since the archaic meaning--and a continued meaning today--is to refer to a bringing of accomplishment, of fulfillment, completion. To perfect one's task is to bring one's task to its intended outcome or end. It is not Jesus who is "perfected" here, but the One making perfect, that is, completing a thing. Jesus makes complete, His mission, His messianic purpose in suffering, dying, and rising from the dead will have reached its designated end and accomplished what He came to accomplish. It is the same thing as He says in other places, that the Christ must suffer and on the third day rise from the dead. That's His mission, His purpose, it is why He came.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BigDaddy4]

Who were the sons of God in Job 1:6, who presented themselves before the Lord?
1) angels
2) add creatures of the universe
3) spirit sons of God

Where are these sons of God presenting themselves before the Lord?
1) on the earth
2) in heaven

What time frame are we talking about?
1) before the earth
2) during the earth
3) after the earth

How does this relate to the discussion?

 

[BigDaddy4]

The pre-existence, and the whole plan of salvation is also part of the 'meat' that Paul was trying to give to the Corinthians that they refused to hear.

So just because it is not explicitly in the bible does not make it untrue. Remember Jesus is not restricted from what he said in the bible.

No it's not. That's your church's false teaching. Love God, love each other. That is the meat. The Corinthians were too wrapped up in their worldly thinking of "jealousy and quarreling". That's not loving God or each other.

Jesus didn't come to make things difficult. He came to give life. Believing in him is the "whole plan of salvation".

 

[BigDaddy4]

This is a good example of why archaic English translations can be unreliable.

So true! Even these days, meaning of words change. For example, the Flintstones cartoon theme song says "We'll have a gay old time", which has a totally different meaning these days for most people.

Context matters!

 

[Peter1000]

Meat is NOT FALSE DOCTRINE!

How would you know if it is false doctrine or not, you have not been given the 'meat'?

 

[Peter1000]

How does this relate to the discussion?

You say nothing in the bible relates to LDS theology. So I am showing you that you are not telling the truth. So who were the sons of God that went before the Lord???????

 

[Peter1000]

No it's not. That's your church's false teaching. Love God, love each other. That is the meat. The Corinthians were too wrapped up in their worldly thinking of "jealousy and quarreling". That's not loving God or each other.

Jesus didn't come to make things difficult. He came to give life. Believing in him is the "whole plan of salvation".

Love God and love each other is the pure 'milk' of the gospel. It is because the Corinthians could not even live the 'milk' level of the gospel that Paul could not even give them the 'meat' of the gospel, which is a higher level of living righteously. So you are right, they were too wrapped up in their worldly thinking to think about living a higher level of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is an aspect of Jesus that is interesting:
Matthew 10:34King James Version (KJV)
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Believing in him was just the beginning of the 'milk' of the gospel, it was certainly not the whole plan of salvation.

That is your error. You have wrapped yourself around the idea that if I just believe in Jesus, I am automatically saved and I have to do no other thing. According to many scriptures in the bible, this is false doctrine, if you want to know what false doctrine is. This doctrine will find more people led away from Jesus than any other doctrine taught to man.

Do you think that is ironic? It is. You believe in Jesus and then do nothing, it will stealthily lead you away from Jesus.

 

[Peter1000]

This is a good example of why archaic English translations can be unreliable.

Jesus says "καὶ τῇ τρίτῃ τελειοῦμαι", "and the third [day] I complete [it]". The key word here is τελειοῦμαι, it does not mean "perfect" in the sense of achieving some kind of higher status, or anything like that, it refers to accomplishing, reaching the end of a particular task or goal, to finish a thing.

We can see this in how many translations render this:

"and on the third day I will reach my goal." - NIV
"and the third day I will accomplish my purpose." - NLT
"and the third day I finish my course." - ESV
"and the third day I reach My goal." - NASB
"and on the third day I will complete My work." - HCSB
"and on the third day I will finish my work." - ISV
"and on the third day I will complete my work." - NET Bible
"and the third day I am consummated." - Douay-Rheims
"and on the third day I finish my work." - NRSV
"and on the thridde dai Y am endid." - Wycliffe
"and vpo the thirde daye shal I make an ende:" - Coverdale
"and the third daye I make an ende." - Tyndale
"Vnd am dritten tage werde ich ein ende nemen." - 1545 Lutherbibel (literally "I will take an end")
"et tertia consummor." - Vulgate (literally "and [the] third I make consummate")

The use of "perfected" is fine in and of itself, since the archaic meaning--and a continued meaning today--is to refer to a bringing of accomplishment, of fulfillment, completion. To perfect one's task is to bring one's task to its intended outcome or end. It is not Jesus who is "perfected" here, but the One making perfect, that is, completing a thing. Jesus makes complete, His mission, His messianic purpose in suffering, dying, and rising from the dead will have reached its designated end and accomplished what He came to accomplish. It is the same thing as He says in other places, that the Christ must suffer and on the third day rise from the dead. That's His mission, His purpose, it is why He came.

-CryptoLutheran

You can twist and turn and set the word 'perfected' aside all you want, but until Jesus was crucified and died and was resurrected into a new and perfect body, he had not completed his mission, and until he completed his mission he was not fully God.

IOW while Jesus walked around in a corruptible mortal body of flesh and bone and blood, and is looking forward to his death (can a fully God die?), can he truly be fully God. The answer is no. He had to go through his ordeal and then die, and then finally be resurrected. Now in a fully resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit, he is complete, he is finished, his mission is ended, he is fully God. But not until.

 

[Rescued One]

You say nothing in the bible relates to LDS theology. So I am showing you that you are not telling the truth. So who were the sons of God that went before the Lord???????

Angels who were not humans or Gods and this is off-topic. End of that discussion.

 

[Rescued One]

Love God and love each other is the pure 'milk' of the gospel. It is because the Corinthians could not even live the 'milk' level of the gospel that Paul could not even give them the 'meat' of the gospel, which is a higher level of living righteously. So you are right, they were too wrapped up in their worldly thinking to think about living a higher level of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is an aspect of Jesus that is interesting:
Matthew 10:34King James Version (KJV)
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Believing in him was just the beginning of the 'milk' of the gospel, it was certainly not the whole plan of salvation.

That is your error. You have wrapped yourself around the idea that if I just believe in Jesus, I am automatically saved and I have to do no other thing. According to many scriptures in the bible, this is false doctrine, if you want to know what false doctrine is. This doctrine will find more people led away from Jesus than any other doctrine taught to man.

Do you think that is ironic? It is. You believe in Jesus and then do nothing, it will stealthily lead you away from Jesus.

No, not believe as the devils believe. Ye must be born again.
Ephesians 5
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth) 10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Romans 3
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Jesus, unlike the rest of us, never walked in darkness

 

[Rescued One]

You can twist and turn and set the word 'perfected' aside all you want, but until Jesus was crucified and died and was resurrected into a new and perfect body, he had not completed his mission, and until he completed his mission he was not fully God.

IOW while Jesus walked around in a corruptible mortal body of flesh and bone and blood, and is looking forward to his death (can a fully God die?), can he truly be fully God. The answer is no. He had to go through his ordeal and then die, and then finally be resurrected. Now in a fully resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit, he is complete, he is finished, his mission is ended, he is fully God. But not until.

He was fully God. He was fully man that he could die.