LDS Are the Two Natures of Jesus Denied by Mormons?

[Rescued One]

John 5
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If Jesus was fully divine, how could He die on the cross? If He was fully human, why did He allow people to worship Him (thus condoning sin), and how could He raise Himself from the dead?

Matthew 14
33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 28
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

John 20
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Christ was fully human and fully God. As a human, He did not possess a fallen human nature. A fallen human nature has a propensity to sin.

 

[fatboys]

John 5
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If Jesus was fully divine, how could He die on the cross? If He was fully human, why did He allow people to worship Him (thus condoning sin), and how could He raise Himself from the dead?

Matthew 14
33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 28
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

John 20
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Christ was fully human and fully God. As a human, He did not possess a fallen human nature. A fallen human nature has a propensity to sin.

As you present our doctrine in the disjointed and many times distorted way I just scratch my head wondering if you actually have read what you posted. I like to think of myself having common sense. I will always try to decern truth from error. Of course I mess up at times. I’m not perfect yet. But when I do mess up I try and learn from my mistakes and not do them again. From my view you constantly present the same argument over and over again. I think to myself why can’t you see the bigger picture? Those who claim to be critics are so focused on one part of Christ that you leave out all the rest of the beautiful blessings and knowledge Christ has for us. I have been on this forum for many years. I have tried to present the restored gospel with different words and different presentation to try and help those hear to at least listen. Most of the time it falls on deaf ears. Then I have been following the news and listened to the divide of those who are liberals vs. conservatives. Some real debate similarities.

 

[Rescued One]

As you present our doctrine in the disjointed and many times distorted way I just scratch my head wondering if you actually have read what you posted. I like to think of myself having common sense. I will always try to decern truth from error. Of course I mess up at times. I’m not perfect yet. But when I do mess up I try and learn from my mistakes and not do them again. From my view you constantly present the same argument over and over again. I think to myself why can’t you see the bigger picture? Those who claim to be critics are so focused on one part of Christ that you leave out all the rest of the beautiful blessings and knowledge Christ has for us. I have been on this forum for many years. I have tried to present the restored gospel with different words and different presentation to try and help those hear to at least listen. Most of the time it falls on deaf ears. Then I have been following the news and listened to the divide of those who are liberals vs. conservatives. Some real debate similarities.

I'm focused on truth. You don't discuss Mormonism or Christianity, but instead focus on finding fault with me.

How many natures did Christ have when He took on humanity?

 

[Jane_Doe]

John 5
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

.....
Matthew 14
33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 28
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

John 20
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

LDS do indeed believe all these scriptures.

 

[fatboys]

I'm focused on truth. You don't discuss Mormonism or Christianity, but instead focus on finding fault with me.

How many natures did Christ have when He took on humanity?

If your focused on truth then you are missing the mark. And I’ll tell you why. When a person describes another person or entity be it religion or not if they can say nothing positive about it then their views is tainted with unacceptable biased. Credibility is lost because the negative is embellished and exaggerated. The same can be true of the positive. When a critic attacks the Mormon religion especially Joseph Smith who critics believe is complitly evil with no redeeming qualities are in fact totally wrong. Was Joseph perfect? No far from it. Did he make mistakes? You bet he did make some big ones. Did he love his friends? Yes he did. Did he forgive those who turned against him and then came back? Every time. Are their stories of acts of kindness and charity? Lots and lots. Do critics ever acknowledge these acts? Never. Why? Because they would weaken their position that he was totally evil. This invalidates their criticism.

 

[gadar perets]

If Jesus was fully divine, how could He die on the cross?

He could not.

If He was fully human, why did He allow people to worship Him (thus condoning sin), and how could He raise Himself from the dead?

The Greek word translated "worship" is used of the Almighty and men. The same holds true for the Hebrew word translated "worship". When used of an action towards YHWH, it should be translated worship. When used of an action towards men, it should have been translated "bowed down" or something similar. The people that "worshiped" Yeshua did not do so as though he was the only true God (YHWH). They did so as an act of honor and respect such as one would give their king.

Christ was fully human and fully God. As a human, He did not possess a fallen human nature. A fallen human nature has a propensity to sin.

He was fully human, yet without a fallen nature. He was the second Adam as Adam was before the fall.

 

[Winken]

I'm focused on truth. You don't discuss Mormonism or Christianity, but instead focus on finding fault with me.

How many natures did Christ have when He took on humanity?

Hang in there, Phoebe Ann! Check out.......

"One Nation Under Gods," A History of the Mormon Church; Richard Abanes`(c) 2002. A loooong diagnosis of Mormonism. I've read it more than once, referred to it on several occasions. I'm glad you are focused on truth!

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hang in there, Phoebe Ann! Check out.......

"One Nation Under Gods," A History of the Mormon Church; Richard Abanes`(c) 2002. A loooong diagnosis of Mormonism. I've read it more than once, referred to it on several occasions. I'm glad you are focused on truth!

Why, when focusing on truth, do you recommend a book which publishes falsehoods about other people's beliefs?
I'm very chill with the idea that people believe differently than I do, but totally don't understand why people do this (hence my inquiry).

 

[Winken]

Why, when focusing on truth, do you recommend a book which publishes falsehoods about other people's beliefs?
I'm very chill with the idea that people believe differently than I do, but totally don't understand why people do this (hence my inquiry).

Falsehoods? According to __________.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Falsehoods? According to __________.

It completely misrepresents the beliefs of the LDS people. It publishes falsehoods.

Again, I'm perfectly ok & respecting that people have different beliefs, and desire to understand other people/beliefs accurately.

 

[Winken]

It completely misrepresents the beliefs of the LDS people. It publishes falsehoods.

Again, I'm perfectly ok & respecting that people have different beliefs, and desire to understand other people/beliefs accurately.

There is only ONE belief, not several, not "different." A Spiritually birthed person is occupied by the Holy Spirit, the ONLY Truth necessary to interpret and apply God's Word. That ONE belief embraces each Believer.

An authentic Christian is saved and secure forever. An authentic Christian has no need to understand anything else.

Victory !!!!

 

[fatboys]

There is only ONE belief, not several, not "different." A Spiritually birthed person is occupied by the Holy Spirit, the ONLY Truth necessary to interpret and apply God's Word. That ONE belief embraces each Believer.

An authentic Christian is saved and secure forever. An authentic Christian has no need to understand anything else.

Victory !!!!

If Satan wanted to appeal to mortal man what would be the enticing?

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is only ONE belief, not several, not "different."

Jewish beliefs are different than Muslim than Catholic than Baptist than Taoist than Buddhist etc. That's what I was talking about.

An authentic Christian is saved and secure forever. An authentic Christian has no need to understand anything else.

An Christian has the obligation to be truthful and love his/her fellow man. Misrepresenting another person or their beliefs is in violation of that. Being saved is not a license to sin.

I think we all can agree on those points.

 

[Rescued One]

If your focused on truth then you are missing the mark. And I’ll tell you why. When a person describes another person or entity be it religion or not if they can say nothing positive about it then their views is tainted with unacceptable biased. Credibility is lost because the negative is embellished and exaggerated. The same can be true of the positive. When a critic attacks the Mormon religion especially Joseph Smith who critics believe is complitly evil with no redeeming qualities are in fact totally wrong. Was Joseph perfect? No far from it. Did he make mistakes? You bet he did make some big ones. Did he love his friends? Yes he did. Did he forgive those who turned against him and then came back? Every time. Are their stories of acts of kindness and charity? Lots and lots. Do critics ever acknowledge these acts? Never. Why? Because they would weaken their position that he was totally evil. This invalidates their criticism.

I'm not Joseph Smith's judge. God decides what to do with false prophets and teachers. I've never said that he was totally evil, but the teachings are false.

 

[Rescued One]

.

 

[Rescued One]

If Satan wanted to appeal to mortal man what would be the enticing?

Why are you posting to this thread? What did I say about Mormonism other than asking one question?

 

[fatboys]

Why are you posting to this thread? What did I say about Mormonism other than asking one question?

If satan wanted to make salvation more appealing to man what rational would he use to make salvation seem effortless

 

[BigDaddy4]

If satan wanted to make salvation more appealing to man what rational would he use to make salvation seem effortless

Which begs the question - did God want to make salvation harder for mankind??

A free gift is not free if there are requirements to obtain it.

 

[Peter1000]

John 5
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If Jesus was fully divine, how could He die on the cross? If He was fully human, why did He allow people to worship Him (thus condoning sin), and how could He raise Himself from the dead?

Matthew 14
33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 28
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

John 20
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Christ was fully human and fully God. As a human, He did not possess a fallen human nature. A fallen human nature has a propensity to sin.

Jesus was fully human.

Until he was crucified and was resurrected, he was not fully God. There are many scriptures that testify of that. Scriptures from the bible that testify of this very doctrine.
Here is just one:
Luke 13:32King James Version (KJV)
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

You cannot say that Jesus was fully God before he was fully perfected. Right?

 

[Peter1000]

Which begs the question - did God want to make salvation harder for mankind??

A free gift is not free if there are requirements to obtain it.

In LDS theology, God has taken spirit and intelligence that have existed forever, and moulded those elements into a cohesive, intelligent being, whose nature is the same as God himself. IOW God has perpetuated his species.

As His spirit children, He wants us to grow up to be like Him and do the things that He does, and live the way He does. He does not want to be a puppet-master with a string attached to each child. He wants us to be willing to do His will and live as He has commanded, without having to be given everything or having to pull the strings to make sure you do. You can see this type of problem in rich families. The parents give everything to their children and the children turn out to be unresponsible people and useless to our society.
God wants all of his children to return to Him, however, they must be responsible people and do what He has commanded them to do. So He has to walk a tightrope. If He is too harsh, few will be saved. If He makes it so that all are saved, how many of them will be responsible people like Him. Not many???
Remember, the goal is to perpetuate his species to become like Him. Not to be a puppet-master, and create a race of robots.