Are the narratives of Genesis a true revelation of God's works to Moses to correct other writings?
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Newtheran
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Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories
An example of some historic stories that share certain details with the accurate biblical account of history but have gotten corrupted over time. The history of our earth is not evolution, but devolution.
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- May 19, 2018
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Not 'Everything' in the Bible is to be taken literally.
Is everything in Revelation to be taken 100% literally?
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JacobKStarkey
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Newtheran
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The people who make this argument are usually making it from a perspective that permits them to take the parts they don't like figuratively. Certainly the exodus is not an allegory.
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JacobKStarkey
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No, people are not "usually" doing any such thing.
By accepting the literalist approach to say whatever the Bible says is so, when it is so contradictory is so many places and ways, people are trying to dominate the orthodoxy of position and exclude heterodoxy.
Three million Jews did not exit Egypt. Twenty across would have taken them three years to cross the Red Sea.
I have no doubt that it took the Jews forty years to get a presence in the mountains west of the Jordan.
I have no doubt some sort of group journey from the ME into Palestine to Egypt and back took place.
I have no doubt that it took some time for the Jews to take over Palestine and then had trouble hanging onto it until the Temple was destroyed.
I have no doubt the narratives embrace the "truth" of the Jewish presence and heritage and promise of the future.
By accepting the literalist approach to say whatever the Bible says is so, when it is so contradictory is so many places and ways, people are trying to dominate the orthodoxy of position and exclude heterodoxy.
Three million Jews did not exit Egypt. Twenty across would have taken them three years to cross the Red Sea.
I have no doubt that it took the Jews forty years to get a presence in the mountains west of the Jordan.
I have no doubt some sort of group journey from the ME into Palestine to Egypt and back took place.
I have no doubt that it took some time for the Jews to take over Palestine and then had trouble hanging onto it until the Temple was destroyed.
I have no doubt the narratives embrace the "truth" of the Jewish presence and heritage and promise of the future.
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You not answered my question.
Is Revelation meant to be taken 100% literally?
I asked you this first.
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MayYouBeBlessed
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Is all of the Word of God meant to be taken 100% figuratively?
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Newtheran
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Well, as chapter 1 says, it's a vision. So it's the literal description of a vision God gave to John on Patmos. You're attempting to reference a specific part of scripture that clearly identifies itself as such in an errant attempt to justify picking and choosing what you take figuratively.
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It is apparent some here don't understand the literal method of interpretation or what it is normally understood as the grammatical historical method of interpretation. The grammatical part plainly shows that not all things are to be taken literally because the text of Scripture shows otherwise when talking about a metaphor (parables) or an allegory (Galatians 4) but behind those is the truth that these figures of speech represent.
A basic summary principle of grammatical historical interpretation is this: “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”
Were Adam & Eve actual historical people that started the human race? Jesus taught it. Malachi taught it. The Apostle Paul taught it. Luke taught it.
Did Jesus literally walk on this earth? Did Jesus literally rise from the dead (the resurrection). Did the 12 apostles literally exist? Is Jesus literally seated in the heavenlies at the right hand of the Father?
I guess literalism or historical reality is indeed an enemy of Christianity. At least for the skeptics & mockers of Christianity. They don't believe any of that is historical & actually happened.
The burden of proof is on you to show that is the truth in that passage. You said it all depends on the interpretation. Please show us the intepretation that says that & by whose authority they are interpreting that as.
No person using the grammatical, historical & cultural method of interpretation (GHCMI) has ever said 100% of Revelation is literal, as the summary rule above shows. And I am confident you would not say that 100% of Revelation is figurative either.
So when it says the letter is written to seven actual historical churches, those churches actually existed at the time Revelation was written.
Revelation also makes frequent use of similes, metaphors & symbols. A simile compares two unlike things by the use of “like” or “as,” while a metaphor attributes the qualities of one thing to another without using “like” or “as.”
Revelation employs over 70 similes, beginning with the vision of “one like a son of man,” who is described by using nine similes (1:10, 13–16). These similes illuminate particular aspects of the actual Jesus’--His person & role--while conveying that the risen Jesus surpasses anything his readers have experienced.
E.W. Bullinger produced a massive work of more than 1,100 pages dealing with biblical figures of speech.Therein he classified some 200 different figures of speech used in the Bible at various places.
A figure of speech occurs when a word, phrase, or sentence is employed in a sense other than the usual or literal sense it has naturally.The purpose behind the use of a figurative expression is to intensify the idea being conveyed.The figure adds emphasis, feeling, and color to the thought presented.It is a mistake to assume that when a figure of speech is utilized the force of the statement or argument is weakened; actually, just the reverse is true.
It is very important, however, to be able to distinguish the figurative from the literal. A failure to discern the difference, in various biblical contexts, has resulted in much error.
One such rule in the GHCMI on figurative language is this:
Words must be interpreted literally unless the sense implies an absurdity.
The Scriptures use the term “face” dozens of times in a figurative sense, e.g., face of the deep (Gen. 1:2), face of the earth (Gen. 1:29), face of the ground (Gen. 2:6), etc. Obviously, to press the word “face,” in a literal sense, would imply an absurdity with reference to the sea, the earth, etc. However, many figurative things in the Bible can be plainly understood on the basis of the figure of speech!
Clearly, then, these uses are figurative but anyone reading & understanding it plainly sees the face refers to the actual 'surfaces of those things.'
Jesus parables were normal everyday life situations but behind everyone of them was powerful, actual & literal truth. Again the figurative language made the meaning intended even more powerful.
When someone seeks the Lord & the guidance of the Holy Spirit & other more mature Christians who have studied the Scriptures a long time & are godly people who know the Lord, it becomes evident what is meant for the most part.
When the disciples didn't understand a parable of Jesus, they often asked him what it meant & He told them. Those who don't take the time to study it & ask the Lord, remain in darkness on what He meant. You can see that many times in Scripture. Only those whose hearts aren't hardened to the supernatural work of God are those who gain spiritual understanding from the Lord via the Holy Spirit. Behind the figurative is actual truth, making the figurative even more powerful in its effect.
Example:
Matt 13:13-17 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see & hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“You will indeed hear but never understand & you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull & with their ears they can barely hear & their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes & hear with their ears & understand with their heart & turn & I would heal them.’
16But blessed are your eyes, for they see & your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets & righteous people longed to see what you see & did not see it & to hear what you hear & did not hear it.
Matt 13:24-30 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came & sowed weeds (tares) among the wheat & went away.
26So when the plants came up & bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came & said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
28He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go & gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest & at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first & bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matt 13:36-43 Then he left the crowds & went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world & the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, & the enemy who sowed them is the devil.
The harvest is the end of the age & the reapers are angels. Just LIKE (AS) the weeds are gathered & burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
The Son of Man will send His angels & they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin & all law-breakers & throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine LIKE THE SUN sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Even in the literal or actual truth, the Lord used metaphors to describe some things that in reality are hard to communicate because we don't have an actual literal reference to gauge it by, such as what people will look like when they are 'in glory."
But the man who sowed the good seed IS the Lord actually. The one who sold the weed seed is the devil, actually. The good seeds that produced a wheat harvest are actual believers of the kingdom of God. The bad seed are actual unbelievers & those in rebellion against God, just like the devil.
Angels actually exist & they are the reapers at the end of this time age, when Jesus returns again.
One must take the time to LEARN what the literal or GHCMI method actually is before condemning it because most doing so do not understand it at all, latching onto one word, 'literal' & distorting & misrepresenting it & dismissing it.
And the biggest mistake a number of people make is to NOT allow Scripture to interpret Scripture by the many corroborative, correlating & similar passages throughout the Bible that reinforce what is actually meant in the starting passage.
Such is the study of the Trinity for example throughout Scripture. If we just stuck with Genesis 1:1 & yet didn't tie in Gen 1:26,27 or John 1:1-3 or Col 1:15-20 or Gen 1:2; Job 26:13 or Ps 33:7, then we wouldn't see all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in creation.
A basic summary principle of grammatical historical interpretation is this: “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”
Were Adam & Eve actual historical people that started the human race? Jesus taught it. Malachi taught it. The Apostle Paul taught it. Luke taught it.
Did Jesus literally walk on this earth? Did Jesus literally rise from the dead (the resurrection). Did the 12 apostles literally exist? Is Jesus literally seated in the heavenlies at the right hand of the Father?
I guess literalism or historical reality is indeed an enemy of Christianity. At least for the skeptics & mockers of Christianity. They don't believe any of that is historical & actually happened.
The burden of proof is on you to show that is the truth in that passage. You said it all depends on the interpretation. Please show us the intepretation that says that & by whose authority they are interpreting that as.
No person using the grammatical, historical & cultural method of interpretation (GHCMI) has ever said 100% of Revelation is literal, as the summary rule above shows. And I am confident you would not say that 100% of Revelation is figurative either.
So when it says the letter is written to seven actual historical churches, those churches actually existed at the time Revelation was written.
Revelation also makes frequent use of similes, metaphors & symbols. A simile compares two unlike things by the use of “like” or “as,” while a metaphor attributes the qualities of one thing to another without using “like” or “as.”
Revelation employs over 70 similes, beginning with the vision of “one like a son of man,” who is described by using nine similes (1:10, 13–16). These similes illuminate particular aspects of the actual Jesus’--His person & role--while conveying that the risen Jesus surpasses anything his readers have experienced.
E.W. Bullinger produced a massive work of more than 1,100 pages dealing with biblical figures of speech.Therein he classified some 200 different figures of speech used in the Bible at various places.
A figure of speech occurs when a word, phrase, or sentence is employed in a sense other than the usual or literal sense it has naturally.The purpose behind the use of a figurative expression is to intensify the idea being conveyed.The figure adds emphasis, feeling, and color to the thought presented.It is a mistake to assume that when a figure of speech is utilized the force of the statement or argument is weakened; actually, just the reverse is true.
It is very important, however, to be able to distinguish the figurative from the literal. A failure to discern the difference, in various biblical contexts, has resulted in much error.
One such rule in the GHCMI on figurative language is this:
Words must be interpreted literally unless the sense implies an absurdity.
The Scriptures use the term “face” dozens of times in a figurative sense, e.g., face of the deep (Gen. 1:2), face of the earth (Gen. 1:29), face of the ground (Gen. 2:6), etc. Obviously, to press the word “face,” in a literal sense, would imply an absurdity with reference to the sea, the earth, etc. However, many figurative things in the Bible can be plainly understood on the basis of the figure of speech!
Clearly, then, these uses are figurative but anyone reading & understanding it plainly sees the face refers to the actual 'surfaces of those things.'
Jesus parables were normal everyday life situations but behind everyone of them was powerful, actual & literal truth. Again the figurative language made the meaning intended even more powerful.
When someone seeks the Lord & the guidance of the Holy Spirit & other more mature Christians who have studied the Scriptures a long time & are godly people who know the Lord, it becomes evident what is meant for the most part.
When the disciples didn't understand a parable of Jesus, they often asked him what it meant & He told them. Those who don't take the time to study it & ask the Lord, remain in darkness on what He meant. You can see that many times in Scripture. Only those whose hearts aren't hardened to the supernatural work of God are those who gain spiritual understanding from the Lord via the Holy Spirit. Behind the figurative is actual truth, making the figurative even more powerful in its effect.
Example:
Matt 13:13-17 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see & hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“You will indeed hear but never understand & you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull & with their ears they can barely hear & their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes & hear with their ears & understand with their heart & turn & I would heal them.’
16But blessed are your eyes, for they see & your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets & righteous people longed to see what you see & did not see it & to hear what you hear & did not hear it.
Matt 13:24-30 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came & sowed weeds (tares) among the wheat & went away.
26So when the plants came up & bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came & said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
28He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go & gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest & at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first & bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matt 13:36-43 Then he left the crowds & went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world & the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, & the enemy who sowed them is the devil.
The harvest is the end of the age & the reapers are angels. Just LIKE (AS) the weeds are gathered & burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
The Son of Man will send His angels & they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin & all law-breakers & throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine LIKE THE SUN sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Even in the literal or actual truth, the Lord used metaphors to describe some things that in reality are hard to communicate because we don't have an actual literal reference to gauge it by, such as what people will look like when they are 'in glory."
But the man who sowed the good seed IS the Lord actually. The one who sold the weed seed is the devil, actually. The good seeds that produced a wheat harvest are actual believers of the kingdom of God. The bad seed are actual unbelievers & those in rebellion against God, just like the devil.
Angels actually exist & they are the reapers at the end of this time age, when Jesus returns again.
One must take the time to LEARN what the literal or GHCMI method actually is before condemning it because most doing so do not understand it at all, latching onto one word, 'literal' & distorting & misrepresenting it & dismissing it.
And the biggest mistake a number of people make is to NOT allow Scripture to interpret Scripture by the many corroborative, correlating & similar passages throughout the Bible that reinforce what is actually meant in the starting passage.
Such is the study of the Trinity for example throughout Scripture. If we just stuck with Genesis 1:1 & yet didn't tie in Gen 1:26,27 or John 1:1-3 or Col 1:15-20 or Gen 1:2; Job 26:13 or Ps 33:7, then we wouldn't see all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in creation.
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