Are rising ocean levels greatest threat from climate change.

[DennisTate]

Or we could invest in oil spill and arctic technology. With the thawing permafrost, there's just miles and miles of oil pipelines ready to collapse and with the retreating sea ice, new and new Deepwater Horizons just waiting to happen and people to make handsome profit of the catastrophes. Why fight the coming storm when you stand to profit from it anyway?

Interesting comment Kalevalatar! You are so right about the dangers that exist as much of the permafrost melts. What do you personally think about the release of methane gas as climate change alters the Arctic?

 

[DennisTate]

A good friend of mine recently did a video. The images of the woman....the serpent and the eagle....beginning at the 14:30 mark have the potential to alter the way that the church views climate change??!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3z39sbkCBI

BEASTS of PROPHECY an Unprecedented BIBLICAL DISCOVERY!

MASSIVE BIBLICAL DISCOVERY MADE BY AMERICAN -- that biblical images are etched in the earth's crust - now revealed by sonar imaging. Subsequently, before the prophets wrote it on paper, God wrote it in the earth! This video will show you how. Website to follow. SHARE SHARE SHARE GLOBALLY!

FACEBOOK - TWITTER - YOUTUBE
DOWNLOAD/UPLOAD TO YOUR OWN CHANNELS/SITES
SHARE THIS. WHILE YOU CAN.

 

[DennisTate]

Here's the problem: if we did this and it managed to stop global warming in a significant way, then we'd still be producing carbon emissions.

And if you believe that carbon dioxide, methane and other gases act to trap heat within the Earth's atmosphere, then at some point you have to stop pumping billions of tons into the atmosphere if you want to stop global warming.

So perhaps the un-desertification would help curb global warming, but if we continue to spew greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, then we're just delaying the problem.

I don't think a carbon tax is a good idea. I think other things will reduce our emissions:
1) Investing in technologies to produce energy from sources other than coal or gas such as hydropower, nuclear power, wind or solar. Rather than spend trillions of dollars irrigating and up-keeping a forest in the Sahara for untold centuries, it would make more sense to cover about 2-3% of the Sahara in solar panels. It may cost trillions of dollars to do such a thing, but not only would it require far less upkeep and irrigation, it would also help power the rest of the world and would essentially make coal and gas power plants irrelevant. If we cover ~1% of the Sahara in solar panels, it would be enough to power the whole world at 2005 levels. Link.
2) Investing in emission-less modes of transportation such as electric cars and trains while also investing heavily in making denser settlements with shorter commutes and viable public transport systems. Vehicle emissions are a huge source in North America and much of that is because of long commutes in cities suffering from urban sprawl.

Have you ever heard about how by switching over to ostrich meat we could reduce our need for pasture land by 90%?

 

[DennisTate]

One concern I don't see articulated often is the effect of melting arctic ice on ocean current patterns. If it affects the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift, for example, I would be concerned about what would happen to northern Europe.

One of the best statements on this topic that I've ever read is quoted in the opening post of this other discussion:

Is this analysis of the probable long term effects of climate change logical?

 

[RickG]

Nonsense. Washington DC is well inland and well above sea level. There is a river that runs through it, as in many inland cities.

Of course, maybe "underwater" is a reference to something else?

This highest elevation in the District of Columbia is 410 ft. above sea level. However, the Potomac River in the mid to lower part of D.C. is at sea level. Since the beginning of the 20th century the average global sea level rise has been 20 cm (7.87 in), most of which is due to thermal expansion. So more than the actual loss of ice, most of global warming is actually in the oceans, more than 90% of it in fact.

Nuccitelli et al, 2012 [PDF]

 

[DennisTate]

This highest elevation in the District of Columbia is 410 ft. above sea level. However, the Potomac River in the mid to lower part of D.C. is at sea level. Since the beginning of the 20th century the average global sea level rise has been 20 cm (7.87 in), most of which is due to thermal expansion. So more than the actual loss of ice, most of global warming is actually in the oceans, more than 90% of it in fact.

Nuccitelli et al, 2012 [PDF]

I didn't know that D. C. was at such a low altitude. Interesting!

 

[DennisTate]

This highest elevation in the District of Columbia is 410 ft. above sea level. However, the Potomac River in the mid to lower part of D.C. is at sea level. Since the beginning of the 20th century the average global sea level rise has been 20 cm (7.87 in), most of which is due to thermal expansion. So more than the actual loss of ice, most of global warming is actually in the oceans, more than 90% of it in fact.

Nuccitelli et al, 2012 [PDF]

That is very interesting and gives me a new angle on a related problem that could be confronting America in less than a year.

 

[DennisTate]

You do realize that IF the worlds deserts wer all made green without changing things elsewhere that it would tie up lots of carbon. I'd guess enough to reverse global warming.

But the IF is huge.

I was told that one nation on earth has experienced COOLING in
their climate...... that one nation was Israel.

Israel led the world, on a per capita basis in planting trees and in large scale
desalination of ocean water for agriculture, reforestation projects and for town
experiencing drought.

Graphene screens can now make desalination more cost effective than ever before.

Graphene sieve turns seawater into drinking water

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'd be very cautious about embarking on such a massive agricultural project. We've already caused massive perturbations to the nitrogen and phosphate cycle through the use of fertilizers, which I'd guess would be necessary to get anything to grow out there.

True. There is a looming phosphorous shortage that will impact present ag production, never mind fertilizing the deserts with it.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Interesting comment Kalevalatar! You are so right about the dangers that exist as much of the permafrost melts. What do you personally think about the release of methane gas as climate change alters the Arctic?

Four years later...

I live in an arctic country north of 60 degrees and next door to Russian taiga and tundra. One third of my country is located above the Arctic Circle and every third person living above the Arctic Circle in the world is a fellow Finn.

If a macho man like Vladimir Vlamirovitch Putin himself is worried enough to admit it aloud and call it a natural security threat, you can bet we are a lot more than just a little bit concerned about what's happening to our planet. 77% of Finns name climate change as the most serious threat and want the government to do more to combat it. Our conservative President names it as the #1 most serious threat to our country, and of the eight presidential candidates for 2018 election, no less than five list climate change as one of the most important issues.

I say planet, not country, for the very reason that Finland is estimated to be one of the very few "winners" of accelerating climate change, a country where the harms are offset by new advantages.

Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.​

When the rest of the world will be drowning in melt water but without a drop of clean fresh water to drink or use for irrigation, we will feel sorry for you all -- and sell water to you like Saudis currently sell oil.

 

[DennisTate]

Four years later...

I live in an arctic country north of 60 degrees and next door to Russian taiga and tundra. One third of my country is located above the Arctic Circle and every third person living above the Arctic Circle in the world is a fellow Finn.

If a macho man like Vladimir Vlamirovitch Putin himself is worried enough to admit it aloud and call it a natural security threat, you can bet we are a lot more than just a little bit concerned about what's happening to our planet. 77% of Finns name climate change as the most serious threat and want the government to do more to combat it. Our conservative President names it as the #1 most serious threat to our country, and of the eight presidential candidates for 2018 election, no less than five list climate change as one of the most important issues.

I say planet, not country, for the very reason that Finland is estimated to be one of the very few "winners" of accelerating climate change, a country where the harms are offset by new advantages.

Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.​

When the rest of the world will be drowning in melt water but without a drop of clean fresh water to drink or use for irrigation, we will feel sorry for you all -- and sell water to you like Saudis currently sell oil.

This is such an insightful reply that I decided to quote you in full over in this related discussion.

Thank you immensely.

Is this analysis of the probable long term effects of climate change logical?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.​

When the rest of the world will be drowning in melt water but without a drop of clean fresh water to drink or use for irrigation, we will feel sorry for you all -- and sell water to you like Saudis currently sell oil.

What you are describing is a global deluge, not a few meters rise in ocean levels. What is the elevation of Finland anyway? Looks pretty low.

Worldwide Elevation Finder

 

[Kalevalatar]

What you are describing is a global deluge, not a few meters rise in ocean levels. What is the elevation of Finland anyway? Looks pretty low.

Worldwide Elevation Finder

Actually, not all places were created equal. Unlike the US East and West Coasts that are heavily affected by the melting Antarctica and where the sea level rise is three times worse than the average, Finland and neighbouring Sweden are the only place on Earth where the sea level is falling, not rising, due to post-glacial rebound (which makes it even worse for the US side of the North American plate as it means the US landmass is sinking), i.e. land in Finland rises faster than the sea level, meaning Finnish landmass is -- lucky for us! -- increasing. And since Finland doesn't border the great vast oceans, Finland won't suffer from extreme storms and tsunamis that will make it even worse on those coastal plains.

Glacial Rebound: The Not So Solid Earth

According to the 23-year record of satellite data from NASA and its partners, the sea level is rising a few millimeters a year -- a fraction of an inch. If you live on the U.S. East Coast, though, your sea level is rising two or three times faster than average. If you live in Scandinavia, it's falling. Residents of China's Yellow River delta are swamped by sea level rise of more than nine inches (25 centimeters) a year.

These regional differences in sea level change will become even more apparent in the future, as ice sheets melt. For instance, when the Amundsen Sea sector of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is totally gone, the average global sea level will rise four feet. But the East Coast of the United States will see an additional 14 to 15 inches above that average.

The Only Place in the World Where Sea Level Is Falling, Not Rising
In Sweden and Finland, it’s the land that’s technically rising faster than the sea

“We should be pretty safe for now,” says Martin Vermeer, a professor of geodesy at Aalto University in Helsinki, when talking about the effects of sea level rise in his home country. While global sea level is currently rising at an average of 3 millimeters per year, Finland’s landmass is rising 3 to 9 millimeters per year. In Scandinavia, the so-called post-glacial uplift has been ongoing for 10,000 years since the pressure from the huge weight of the glaciers was lifted off the land at the end of the last glacial period.

As a Land of a Thousand Lakes and ranking as the world's top source of fresh water, we do take our water seriously. Selling water in the future is not a joke, as climate change will exacerbate the global fresh water shortage via the two extremities of no water (Middle East) or too much water, meaning contaminated water sources and fresh water sources taken over by rising sea water unfit for human consumption. We are already exporting our "pure Arctic drinking water" to Saudi Arabia and the Emirates. It's an exponentially growing business.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170412-is-the-world-running-out-of-fresh-water
New NASA data show how the world is running out of water

Twenty-one of the world’s 37 largest aquifers — in locations from India and China to the United States and France — have passed their sustainability tipping points, meaning more water was removed than replaced during the decade-long study period, researchers announced Tuesday.

“The water table is dropping all over the world,” said Jay Famiglietti, senior water scientist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California and principal investigator of the University of California Irvine-led studies. “There’s not an infinite supply of water.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gurufo...tocks-as-risk-to-resource-grows/#10c4facd3434
Climate Change Spurs Growing Investment In Water Stocks

In addition to being a potential big water power, forestry is also strong in Finland ("Finland lives off of its forests" is the well known motto here) and will benefit from climate change which makes trees grow faster. Whereas our agriculture, which has suffered from the diadvantage of our Arctic latitudes and short growing periods, is also predicted to florish with warming climate. Our domestic energy use for heating and insulation costs, meanwhile, will fall.

When the Arctic melts, Finland can profit -- The Finnish Minister of Transport and Communications

Finland well placed to become a winner

Sure, it's not fair that a prosperous country like Finland -- a developed country that is part of the problem that accelerates climate change -- will likely prosper even more at the expense of the climate change. Nevertheless, currently it looks like there will be few "winners," but Finland is estimated to be one of those to profit from climate change as a country.

 

[keith99]

In Sweden and Finland, it’s the land that’s technically rising faster than the sea



As a Land of a Thousand Lakes and ranking as the world's top source of fresh water, we do take our water seriously. Selling water in the future is not a joke, as climate change will exacerbate the global fresh water shortage via the two extremities of no water (Middle East) or too much water, meaning contaminated water sources and fresh water sources taken over by rising sea water unfit for human consumption. We are already exporting our "pure Arctic drinking water" to Saudi Arabia and the Emirates. It's an exponentially growing business.

Actually yes it is a joke. You are conflating boutique drinking water with agricultural and industrial water. Excess fresh water is worthless in the industrial or agricultural sense unless it can be transported economically. Pennies a gallon is nothing for boutique drinking water it is outrageously expensive for industrial uses.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure, it's not fair that a prosperous country like Finland -- a developed country that is part of the problem that accelerates climate change -- will likely prosper even more at the expense of the climate change. Nevertheless, currently it looks like there will be few "winners," but Finland is estimated to be one of those to profit from climate change as a country.

It would still take a global deluge of seawater to bring about the conditions you describe. Also Finland would be taken over by Russia by then.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Actually yes it is a joke. You are conflating boutique drinking water with agricultural and industrial water. Excess fresh water is worthless in the industrial or agricultural sense unless it can be transported economically. Pennies a gallon is nothing for boutique drinking water it is outrageously expensive for industrial uses.

I'm not talking about "boutique drinking water" a.k.a. vanity baby bottles for adults. I'm talking about water technology, clean tech, smart water know-how. Something that we already export to Saudi Arabia and the Emirates. Luckily we also have a strong arctic technology sector that is also having a bit of a boom as new areas of Arctic are becoming accessible and exploitable.

 

[Kalevalatar]

It would still take a global deluge of seawater to bring about the conditions you describe. Also Finland would be taken over by Russia by then.

Don't be a sore loser. Parts of the United States will winners, too, just not the southern and coastal parts. As a rule of thumb, those better off will be the regions with colder and less sunny weather. Universal karma, I guess. Already half of the world wants to move to our colder and darker countries. Go figure.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Don't be a sore loser. Parts of the United States will winners, too, just not the southern and coastal parts. As a rule of thumb, those better off will be the regions with colder and less sunny weather. Universal karma, I guess. Already half of the world wants to move to our colder and darker countries. Go figure.

Waddyamean loser? I live in Wisconsin, 850 feet above sea level and close to the great lakes, the world's largest supply of fresh water, also well above sea level.

Search Results - Lakelubbers

 

[mindlight]

Collapse Of Antarctic Ice Sheet Would Likely Put Washington, D.C. Largely Underwater

And you are opposed to it ;-)

Doesn't the city vote Democrat.