Are Poor People to Blame for their Poverty?

[OldWiseGuy]

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Matthew 19:

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lack: go thy way, sell
whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come,
take up the cross, and follow me.
Mark 10:21
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lack thou one thing: sell all that thou
hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luke 18:

A much misused scriptural event. Jesus was offering him immediate discipleship.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Society and the economic system are incredibly complex systems. The idea that every man is an island, capable of achieving anything and thus to be blamed for their position in society (as the capitalist narrative would us believe) is incredibly naive or intellectually lazy.

What is naïve and lazy are 'get rich quick' schemes that so often fail, leaving many broke. Any one, not every one, can succeed here using the 'get rich slow' approach.

 

[quatona]

What is naïve and lazy are 'get rich quick' schemes that so often fail, leaving many broke. Any one, not every one, can succeed here using the 'get rich slow' approach.

...and here we are talking about those who couldn´t.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

...and here we are talking about those who couldn´t.

Can't, or won't? Sadly we are stuck with both.

 

[quatona]

Can't, or won't? Sadly we are stuck with both.

You said "not everyone can", so the OP question is answered.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You said "not everyone can", so the OP question is answered.

I don't believe there was a question in the OP, just a statement and an opinion.

I have always insisted that any one person can succeed, but not every one, although that is also possible. Success is a pretty subjective measure. My daughter is a good example of someone who wants nothing and has succeeded remarkably well in that effort.

 

[quatona]

I don't believe there was a question in the OP, just a statement and an opinion.

I´m not a native English speaker, but the thread title "Are poor people to blame for their poverty?" sounds like a question to me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I´m not a native English speaker, but the thread title "Are poor people to blame for their poverty?" sounds like a question to me.

I think the OP was commenting on an article, which offered it's own answer, so there was really no need for further responses.

 

[quatona]

I think the OP was commenting on an article, which offered it's own answer, so there was really no need for further responses.

So what are you doing here?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So what are you doing here?

Adding my 2 cents to a thread that has spun totally out of control, like everyone else (actually worth much more).

The upshot is that Fantine is sad because life doesn't seem to be fair.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

OP: Sometimes, yes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I just read this article in the HuffPost about it, and it seems that Republicans and Democrats feel very differently about this, and that white Christians, in particular, are more likely to blame the poor for being poor.

I am writing this not to condemn people who feel differently from me. Like you, I've known people who gamed the system, and I know people whose backgrounds meant they never had a chance, and I don't think any of us would say "all of the poor" were to blame for their condition--or that "none" were.

Here's the article link, and a quote, and I will tell you what my opinion is and why.

Christians Are More Likely To Say It's Poor People's Own Fault That They're Poor



My feelings, that they aren't responsible, is based on my life experience.

Evaluating applicants for Habitat for Humanity houses, for example, has shown me what it's like for poor people to buy a car...or go to a hospital....

One person worked in a factory for 20 years---and after she lost her job her new job paid 25% less (and her old job didn't pay great.)

Car loans have disastrous interest rates. People go to emergency rooms and when they haven't made a payment in a few years their medical debt is erased. Of course, their credit is still shot for years..do you know that people with better credit ratings pay less for homeowners' and car insurance?

If they live in small towns (or the inner city) there are no inexpensive places to shop, because they aren't high-profit areas for people to do business in. People with higher incomes get all sorts of incentives and freebies that poor people don't because wealthier people have more bargaining power.

I consider myself comfortable, not wealthy, but last year we had two free plane trips, about $500 in credit card rebates, etc. We buy a lot of things on credit and pay our bills every month...we recently bought a car and got $1400 off from GM card credits (5 points per dollar).

More comfortable people live in areas with better schools for their children. And when their children graduate, their parents often have friends or family who will help them get their foot in the door in big companies.

I have never had to drive a car with a broken windshield for a year because I couldn't afford a new one. My comprehensive insurance took care of that.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. If we were to fill an imaginary "basket" with goods and services, exactly equal, it would cost a poor person much more than a middle class one, and even more for a wealthy one.

It makes me feel bad--

No one has addressed the issue so I will.

It seems the question concerns two issues; lack of effort, or, difficult circumstances, as the primary reason for poverty.

The obvious answer is lack of effort, which causes difficult circumstances. The only way difficult circumstances can affect poverty is by the lack of effort needed to correct those circumstances. The only way that difficult circumstances can cause a lack of effort is by giving up in hopelessness any effort to change them.

The OP goes on to state some of the 'difficult circumstances', which are nothing more the advantages some people have legitimately cultivated over millennia.

The real causes of poverty in America haven't changed. They are,

The lack of orientation and acculturation to the means of success, notably: education, attitude, appearance, and propriety.

 

[JackRT]

The working poor very frequently have a good work ethic. I know of some couples who between them work four or five part time jobs at minimum wage just to make ends meet. They have no benefits because the companies involved have a policy of using almost exclusively part timers and of course minimum wage is not a living wage. The system is set up to exploit them.

The late Archbishop Dom Helder Camara (of Recife Brazil): "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."

 

[Earatha]

So in response to "are poor people reaponsible for their own poverty" like many others I have to say, it depends.

I've seen people make $600 a week gamble and drink away $400 of that a week, while living in a trailer house with their kids in clothes from goodwill. I've also seen those who make $300 a week try desperately to keep their kids fed and their lights on. I know how hard it is on $8/hour to advance yourself beyond that. And how stressful it is to know that if you get hurt or sick that any opportunity you might have goes away.

The way our system is set up makes it VERY hard to climb from the bottom. It takes skill, perseverance, and luck. And if any thing goes wrong then it gets ten times harder.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

depends on the opportunities afforded to them through the environment they started in.

everyone isn't playing with a full deck.

 

[Waggles]

The way our system is set up makes it VERY hard to climb from the bottom. It takes skill, perseverance, and luck. And if any thing goes wrong then it gets ten times harder.

When Jesus rules and reigns for a thousand years from Jerusalem and the government shall be upon
his shoulders - I wonder if we will have a stratified class system of haves and have nots?

 

[Earatha]

Stratification isn't bad so long as mobility is accessible.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It depends. They may not be to blame for what GOT them in poverty, BUT they may well be to blame ( depending on their reaction and factors outside of their control for REMAINING in poverty.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Feels like the judging hour in here, but let me add my $0.02 for what it's worth.

No, I don't believe that the vast majority of those who live in poverty are responsible for their situation. Most people living in poverty are born into poverty. That typically means that before they are cognizant of their surroundings, instability regarding shelter, nutrition and healthcare will shape their lives.

Yes, there are government programs, but those programs do not show up at your door to help. You need to know where to go and what to apply for and you need to get there before the program monies are gone.

I think people really don't understand what poverty looks like. You don't have enough money to pay for what you NEED when you live in poverty. You are literally always behind on something & doing without another. There is no savings because there is no extra. A minor car repair is a tragedy. Moving to a better place is a pipe dream because where do you get the money to do that?

Poverty is a crushing weight of stress; the constant pull between what you should do and what you can do and children in poverty are introduced into adult concerns early.

Children learn to contribute to the family and not be a burden. Many forgo doing things that would be better for them in the long run in order to continue to benefit the family.

Certain basic life skills are never taught because those skills actually represent privilege. Saving is privilege. Budgeting looks like privilege when you never have enough and it isn't a stable amount. No one talks to you about managing your credit and interest rates in these neighborhoods.

People in poverty often pay more for services they need. They earn less, pay more and are stuck by circumstance.

Most people I known who've lived in poverty (including family members) worked harder at their lousy jobs than many upwardly mobile middle class workers. They are also subject to more employer harrasment and work place abuses.

Let's be honest, capitalism requires a vulnerable, bottom tier of workers. Many jobs don't pay well and there is no advancement in their future. We need people perpetually hungry and desperate enough to do them.

 

[Moral Orel]

People are responsible for their own poverty because everyone can work if they want to.

People are not responsible for their own poverty because rich people need more money to create jobs.

Seems like an either/or situation to me. But somehow conservatives can hold both of these positions in their mind simultaneously.