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Are Poor People to Blame for their Poverty?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Fantine, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. 381465

    381465 Well-Known Member

    +916
    Zimbabwe
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    Ok. What does this have to do with me post answering the OP thread title?
     
  2. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

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    You said that some people are more responsible for their poverty than others. As I can not see a way of telling this apart that does not violate privacy rights I would help everyone with good welfare.
     
  3. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

    +959
    United States
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    I am pleased you feel bad. A rather huge amount of the American population don't.

    The reality, at least in America, is that nearly all successful people honestly believe they became successful because of their own intellect, effort and skills. The reality is that they became successful because it is almost impossible for them not to be successful.

    In America, people of color are the largest amount of poor or working poor. And that is because the entire make-up of America is designed to favor white people and to put road blocks in front of people of color.

    And I don't say that as sour grapes. I'm white and have benefited from this uneven playing field. I only wish I had become aware much sooner in my life.
     
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  4. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

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    I want to put it more clearly: I find it couragous that you bring this up.
     
  5. Rene Loup

    Rene Loup A saved wolf among sheep. Supporter

    +11,917
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    Bill Gates is also credited for saying, "Success is a lousy teacher. It teaches smart people that they can't lose."

    He certainly has a point on that. As bad as this sounds, it actually brings me pleasure that a successful man on his high horse somehow gets humbled by his own choices fueled by his own pride. An example would be a conceited Instagram model with 20,000 followers being recorded talking abusively to a security guard and then losing most of his followers and what chance at a real modeling career he had.

    Even if you have gained so much, you can still lose it all whether it be gradually or in a flash. My best advice is learn humility while things are going good because once things get bad, you'll lose both material wealth AND the respect of your peers. It's a double whammy that will only bite you in the butt.
     
  6. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

    +1,979
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    Please educate me on how our system is biased against African Americans.
     
  7. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

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    I had my turn of humiliation, I had to explain all my friends that I am not a libartarian anymore but a socialist. Which ment I had to explain that all I talked so fare was crap... :)
     
  8. Eryk

    Eryk Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,343
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    Christianity gave us the Social Gospel. How we got to lousy social welfare systems has little to do with religion.

    After WW2, politicians in the West prevented their countries from being radicalised by compromising with labor and building the social safety net. Wages rose, the middle class grew, life was good.

    Then came globalisation and the pressures of international competition. The political system moved in favor of business, with privatisation, deregulation, and a shrinking welfare state. Weak unions mean less solidarity among workers. Society became fractured, and it's getting worse.

    When two effects of globalisation - mass immigration and deteriorating social services - are thought to be causally related, this is an opportunity for the right wing. This is the tension between social heterogeneity and support for social welfare: "those people" took it all, I don't want my money going to "those people".

    Racism, not religion, is the reason why social programs have lagged in America. And Europe has to deal with the same ethno-cultural nostalgia that gave us Trump.
     
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  9. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

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    That seems to be reasonable but it still means what you created in the US does not look very compassionate - racism and all.

    To me it looks like more than one cause is at work and the article is citing one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  10. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    +5,438
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    Making assertions without any backing is not very helpful.
     
  11. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    +5,438
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    You have an errant presupposition built into this. You think that it's compassionate to do for able-bodied people what they should do for themselves.

    Government handouts (which are stolen from citizens) are the worst form of slavery imaginable.
     
  12. Waggles

    Waggles Acts 2:38 Supporter

    771
    +468
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    Poverty and being poor are complex socio-economic realities in every modern society.
    It is more that just having less money than others better off financially.
    It is also about social and class structures, and culture that reinforces one's place in society.
    It is about access to education, health, housing, economic opportunity and reward for labour.

    Christianity has been corrupted from its original kinship structures of sharing wealth and food,
    etc with all in the body of Christ to a more capitalist version of worldly enrichment being seen
    as the blessing of divine provision. "Look at my home improvements and my new expensive car,
    the Lord has really blessed me." Many times I have heard this false claim by those failing to
    understand their Christian duty to others in the flock.

    The poor is hated even by his own neighbour, but the rich has many friends.
    Proverbs 14:20
    Wealth makes many friends; but the poor is separated from his neighbour.
    Proverbs 19:4
    All the brothers of the poor man hate him; how much more do his friends go far from him?
    He pursues them with words, yet they are lacking.
    Proverbs 19:7

    44 And all who believed were together and had all things common.
    45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone
    had need.
    46 And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,
    they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
    47 praising God and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
    Acts 2:
     
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  13. Eryk

    Eryk Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People say things like this when they're trying to disown their earlier membership in a group. Take away the personal issues, and you'll see that Christians are a large, complicated group of human beings. Just like I understand that not all former Christians are judgmental.
     
  14. Eryk

    Eryk Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,343
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    And not only in the book of Acts.

    "One in mind and soul, we do not hesitate to share our earthly goods with one another. All things are common among us but our wives." -- Tertullian
     
  15. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

    251
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    I wished I would have paid more to the government when I was still rich and healthy. If I would have it could help me now that I am poor and disabled. Aand yes to the bystander and during certain times of the day I look able bodied.
     
  16. Bluerose31

    Bluerose31 Christian Flower Supporter

    +6,566
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    I don't think people in poverty are responsible for their poverty.
     
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  17. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    +5,438
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    Almost all people are capable of work. Blind people work. Wheelchair-bound people work. People with IQs of 70 work.
     
  18. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    +5,438
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    Great argument.
     
  19. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

    251
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    I do ask a random person now: but does the bible know the golden rule in the positive form? Do to others what you want them to be done upon you?
     
  20. LaraLara

    LaraLara 1 leptofrofron + 1 leptofrafran = 1 leptofrofran

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    I have seen a doctor that convinced a shizophrenic to stop work even so she wanted to work. The reason is that the work would have worsend her condition to the degree that she would have become an even worse burden to the health care system.

    You are right. All people can work ...themselves to death.

    Besides there is nit enough work that is fit for people with disabilities to give them all enough to live.
     
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