Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

[jimmyjimmy]

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

The T of TULIP

Total depravity - is it biblical?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The T of TULIP

Total depravity - is it biblical?

• Psalm 143:2 - Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you.

 

[Stancet]

Yes. I'm not trying to sound pessimistic but it's true.

 

[I'm_Sorry]

• Psalm 143:2 - Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you.

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[PeaceB]

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Yes. I'm not trying to sound pessimistic but it's true.

I'm not clear as to what your "yes" confirms.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

We are all evil by nature. We can grow and try to lett less evil through, but at the end of the day evil will always be there. Heck we disobey God often, which shows our evil. Now evil is a strong word, but maybe its better say deep down we are all "sinners". Which is why we can't really tell a non-beleiver "Your a sinning heathen and going to hell!" because even though we are saved, we are no better then them sin wise. Only difference is we realize what sin is and try to avoid it. Where as nonchristians live a sinful life because to them there is no such thing as sin.

 

[SnowyMacie]

None of the above. People are neither good nor evil, but have a inclination to sin and a capacity to do evil. In fact, part of the reason why I adopted the Eastern Orthodox view of human nature and original sin is because it fits with what science has learned about human psychology, I cannot reconcile the Western notion, much less the Calvinist's with what I also know to be true about human nature from psychology. The most unsettling books I've ever read is called The Lucifer Effect, written by Philip Zimbardo, the psychologist behind the infamous "Stanford Prison Experiment" the thesis of the book is not that evil is a matter of pathology or deep desire in humanity, but a matter of situation. Yes, there are people who are prone to do evil, but there is a desire to conform, control, and obey in all, if not a vast majority of us. What Milgram's (the infamous study where people were told to give even potentially lethal shock to another person in order to test their ability to learn, in reality, they were testing obedience to authority), Zimbardo's, and others' studies like it, which the book goes into details about show that in reality, there's something in us that causes us to kill someone if an authority figure tells us and we feel it's necessary. However, on the other hand, after these studies ended, there was major cognitive dissonance. In fact, after Milgram people actually had to take therapy because they thought they killed someone. It's not so much that people are inherently evil, but they have the capacity for it.

This inclination and capacity of humanity's inclination to sin is the result of our fallen nature, it is a disease and defect, not a moral falling or broken law. The Earliest Church Fathers did not talk about Original Sin, but "Ancestral" Sin, which is that no one is guilty for the actual sin Adam and Eve committed but rather everyone inherits the consequences of this act; the foremost of this is physical death in this world, and that mankind still has an inclination for sin (the Reformed concept of "Total Depravity" was not really heard of until the 5th century, first proposed by Augustine but never formally accepted by the Church outside of certain Protestant denominations). These teachings in the West, which I personally think came from an influence of Roman legalism, are what caused the issue over unbaptized infants and children, an issue that never even discussed in the East because it never was a problem. For the Eastern Fathers, as the consequence of Adam's sin, human beings inherited corruption, possibility, and mortality, from which they could be restored by a process of deification made possible through the redemptive work of Christ. The idea of an inheritance of sin or guilt - common in Western tradition - was foreign to this perspective, since in their view sin could only be a free, personal act. Sin is more like a condition, than a list of bad deeds.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

Mankind were originally made in the image of God in righteousness and holiness of truth, but they chose to sin and deviated from the original image that God had made them.

But this alone I have found: God made humankind honest, but they have pursued many designs. (Ecclesiastes 7:29 NABRE)

 

[SkyWriting]

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

All of the above. What perfect meal can be topped by a spoonful of rotten mold?

 

[Stancet]

I'm not clear as to what your "yes" confirms.

Sorry, I forgot this was a poll. No, I do not happen to believe people are good.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Sorry, I forgot this was a poll. No, I do not happen to believe people are good.

Thanks. Neither do I. I know too many of them.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

All of the above. What perfect meal can be topped by a spoonful of rotten mold?

I have no idea what you mean by that.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have no idea what you mean by that.

What meal is "Mostly Good" when sprinkled with a couple of maggots?

Ok, i had this pound of trail mix with chocolate chip, white chips, fruit...and kept in in the freezer at work to snack on. Somebody eats it leaving the bag behind.

I''l fix them...I refill the bag with Kibbles and bits for my dog.
They eat that. So I add salt and pepper and more dog food.
They eat that. Finally they stopped when I added cherry pits to the mix.

So was it mostly good or bad? Mostly good I guess. I thought the salt and pepper would spoil the whole experience, but no.

 

[Shempster]

Just my opinion but I think it's both.
All humans respond to love and use it on occasion. I think they are born with a sense of God's divine love, like having the need to be loved and held.
At the same time, it seems like we are genetically predisposed to sin, similar to cats being predisposed to killing mice.

 

[SkyWriting]

None of the above. People are neither good nor evil, but have a inclination to sin and a capacity to do evil. In fact, part of the reason why I adopted the Eastern Orthodox view of human nature and original sin is because it fits with what science has learned about human psychology, I cannot reconcile the Western notion, much less the Calvinist's with what I also know to be true about human nature from psychology. The most unsettling books I've ever read is called The Lucifer Effect, written by Philip Zimbardo, the psychologist behind the infamous "Stanford Prison Experiment" the thesis of the book is not that evil is a matter of pathology or deep desire in humanity, but a matter of situation. Yes, there are people who are prone to do evil, but there is a desire to conform, control, and obey in all, if not a vast majority of us. What Milgram's (the infamous study where people were told to give even potentially lethal shock to another person in order to test their ability to learn, in reality, they were testing obedience to authority), Zimbardo's, and others' studies like it, which the book goes into details about show that in reality, there's something in us that causes us to kill someone if an authority figure tells us and we feel it's necessary. However, on the other hand, after these studies ended, there was major cognitive dissonance. In fact, after Milgram people actually had to take therapy because they thought they killed someone. It's not so much that people are inherently evil, but they have the capacity for it.

This inclination and capacity of humanity's inclination to sin is the result of our fallen nature, it is a disease and defect, not a moral falling or broken law. The Earliest Church Fathers did not talk about Original Sin, but "Ancestral" Sin, which is that no one is guilty for the actual sin Adam and Eve committed but rather everyone inherits the consequences of this act; the foremost of this is physical death in this world, and that mankind still has an inclination for sin (the Reformed concept of "Total Depravity" was not really heard of until the 5th century, first proposed by Augustine but never formally accepted by the Church outside of certain Protestant denominations). These teachings in the West, which I personally think came from an influence of Roman legalism, are what caused the issue over unbaptized infants and children, an issue that never even discussed in the East because it never was a problem. For the Eastern Fathers, as the consequence of Adam's sin, human beings inherited corruption, possibility, and mortality, from which they could be restored by a process of deification made possible through the redemptive work of Christ. The idea of an inheritance of sin or guilt - common in Western tradition - was foreign to this perspective, since in their view sin could only be a free, personal act. Sin is more like a condition, than a list of bad deeds.

Or perhaps our ability to follow a leader is our ability to have faith.
I step on ants all the time but don't do it with evil intent.
I have the capacity to kill, but that doesn't make me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The image of God still exists in man, as when God created man.

Genesis 1:26 (God makes man.)
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:..."

Genesis 1:31 (God spoke of all that he had made.)
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

God did not take HIS likeness from man, but cursed the ground.

Genesis 3:17
"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"

Is there scripture to support that the likeness of God is gone from man? God did not take it.

Forgive me...

 

[Adstar]

Are People Basically Good or Basically Evil?

People are flawed and inevitably do evil..

But people can love what is evil.. Or they can love what is good.. irrespective of them doing both.. What one embraces is more important then what one does..

 

[jimmyjimmy]

People are flawed and inevitably do evil..

But people can love what is evil.. Or they can love what is good.. irrespective of them doing both.. What one embraces is more important then what one does..

So, evil people can love and do good.