Are pagan faiths demonic?

[mathetes123]

Are Muslims absolutely right in their theology about God? No.
Are Muslims absolutely right in their monotheism about God? Yes.

The idea that the parts are wrong if the whole is wrong is the Logical Fallacy of Division and is always false. This is not an opinion.

Muslims deny the trinity, so no they are not correct in their monotheism. What is more important, they do not accept Jesus as God in the flesh. They only claim he was a prophet and say he faked the crucifixion.

The fact that they mix through with lies only adds to the deception. Even Satan is called an angel of light. He is the father of lies.

 

[PaladinValer]

Muslims deny the trinity, so no they are not correct in their monotheism.

Monotheism means (belief in) one god. Christians are monotheistic because, while there are three hypostases, there is only One Will and One Substance. The Trinity is truly perhaps better said the "Triunity."

Muslims are also monotheistic. That is said very clearly in the Qur'an and other religious texts they use.

Therefore, you are promoting a falsehood.

What is more important, they do not accept Jesus as God in the flesh. They only claim he was a prophet and say he faked the crucifixion.

This is a Straw Man since I already preempted this.

The fact that they mix through with lies only adds to the deception. Even Satan is called an angel of light. He is the father of lies.

Fallacy of Division. You are logically wrong and you are not spreading the truth.

Furthermore, why are you debating Anglicans in our home foum. This isn't General Theology or the Baptism forum. You are welcome to discuss and to fellowship, but you have no right to debate in this forum. I believe staff reminded you of that earlier in STR when you attempted to vote on our moratorium?

 

[mathetes123]

Monotheism means (belief in) one god. Christians are monotheistic because, while there are three hypostases, there is only One Will and One Substance. The Trinity is truly perhaps better said the "Triunity."

Muslims are also monotheistic. That is said very clearly in the Qur'an and other religious texts they use.

Therefore, you are promoting a falsehood.

This is a Straw Man since I already preempted this.

Fallacy of Division. You are logically wrong and you are not spreading the truth.

Furthermore, why are you debating Anglicans in our home foum. This isn't General Theology or the Baptism forum. You are welcome to discuss and to fellowship, but you have no right to debate in this forum. I believe staff reminded you of that earlier in STR when you attempted to vote on our moratorium?

We were not discussing Anglican beliefs, but Islam.

 

[PaladinValer]

We were not discussing Anglican beliefs, but Islam.

As per CF rules:

Congregational Forum Restrictions, Christian Only Forums, and Off-Topic posts
Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

It doesn't matter if the topic isn't directly about Anglicanism; any debate by non-Anglicans/Old Catholics is prohibits here in STR, just like debate by non-Baptists is prohibited in the Baptist forum.

Furthermore, Ebia posted an official view of the Anglican Communion with Islam earlier. For your convenience, here it is again: The Anglican Communion Official Website - The Holy Land Information Pages

Most Old Catholics and many in the Continuing Church groups would agree more or less with the document.

By this, I mean by questioning my views, you are indeed questioning an official Anglican view on the subject since I am in agreement with that document. And since my view is the official view there, you are debating an Anglican belief.

Please do not debate this further. You don't see me going into the Baptist forum debating Baptist theology; allow us the same courtesy and respect.

 

[simonpeter]

Muslims deny the trinity

So do Jews. Do they cease to be monotheists?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Judaism and Islam are not wrong because they're monothestic; they're wrong because they reject the Son of Man and alter the truth as to God's plans for our salvation and sacramental life. Islam is wrong on a host of things, but monotheism isn't the issue.

 

[PaladinValer]

Judaism and Islam are not wrong because they're monothestic; they're wrong because they reject the Son of Man and alter the truth as to God's plans for our salvation and sacramental life. Islam is wrong on a host of things, but monotheism isn't the issue.

The point is, as I tried to say before, to reject what truths that do exist in other religions leads only to reject truth, period.

No one is suggesting that Muslim theology in totality about God is right. What is being said is that you cannot remove the baby along with the bathwater. Islam is monotheistic, so it has that very important...vital I'd say...truth to it.

That is all. To demonize their monotheism is to reject our own. It makes no logical sense.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You're preaching to the choir, PV. I just said as much about monotheism? I don't reject Islam on the grounds that it's monotheistic. I reject it because it has profoundly WRONG things to say about the nature of God, is opposed to Christ, the religion is loaded with errors and stands in opposition to what God really is. It's not wrong because it believes in one god.

The point is, as I tried to say before, to reject what truths that do exist in other religions leads only to reject truth, period.

No one is suggesting that Muslim theology in totality about God is right. What is being said is that you cannot remove the baby along with the bathwater. Islam is monotheistic, so it has that very important...vital I'd say...truth to it.

That is all. To demonize their monotheism is to reject our own. It makes no logical sense.

 

[brightmorningstar]

PalladinValer,

Muslims are also monotheistic. That is said very clearly in the Qur'an and other religious texts they use.

But as pointed out Islam is monotheistic in one different god. So yes monotheistic in comparative religion terms, but crucial not the same god.

This is a Straw Man since I already preempted this.

Its not a straw man, its is the crucial reason why Isa isn’t the person of Jesus Christ.

Fallacy of Division. You are logically wrong and you are not spreading the truth.

oh dear no. His comment was correct.

 

[brightmorningstar]

PaladinValer,

No one is suggesting that Muslim theology in totality about God is right.

The question is, is it right in any way? How can it be a different god and then also be partly right?

Islam is monotheistic, so it has that very important...vital I'd say...truth to it.

Except that it recognizes there is only one god and then denies God.

That is all. To demonize their monotheism is to reject our own. It makes no logical sense.

On the contrary, the Bible says if one doesn't have the Son one doesn't have the Father either. Your remark therefore is in great error. If the Bible calls out something as denial and you see it as demonizing, then so be it if Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. That is a choice between the spiritual truth and what one feels about it in the flesh.

 

[ebia]

PaladinValer,
The question is, is it right in any way? How can it be a different god and then also be partly right?
Except that it recognizes there is only one god and then denies God.

On the contrary, the Bible says if one doesn't have the Son one doesn't have the Father either. Your remark therefore is in great error. If the Bible calls out something as denial and you see it as demonizing, then so be it if Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. That is a choice between the spiritual truth and what one feels about it in the flesh.

You are failing to distinguish between a description and the concrete thing being (not necessarily accurately) described.

 

[brightmorningstar]

You are failing to distinguish between a description and the concrete thing being (not necessarily accurately) described.

The concrete thing is Jesus Christ and the description of Isa in Islam sounds like Jesus Christ but isn't. Its a deception.

 

[brightmorningstar]

BTW, if the Bible says denial of the Son is denying the Father God as well and you see it as demonizing another religion, what is your point? You are surely not implying God is in error are you?

 

[3rdHeaven]

How many people here have read the Masks Of God by Joseph Campbell?

Just wondering.

 

[ebia]

The concrete thing is Jesus Christ and the description of Isa in Islam sounds like Jesus Christ but isn't. Its a deception.

Thanks for confirming my point.

 

[brightmorningstar]

so thus Isa isnt Jesus Christ, and one cant thus claim Islam recognises Jesus as a prophet, it is Isa, someone who sounds like Jesus who they recognise as a prophet.

 

[brightmorningstar]

How many people here have read the Masks Of God by Joseph Campbell?

Just wondering.

No, can you give us a summary? (providing of course it affirms the Biblical truth)

 

[PaladinValer]

You're preaching to the choir, PV.

I wasn't suggesting you disagreed; I was restating my view.

I just said as much about monotheism? I don't reject Islam on the grounds that it's monotheistic. I reject it because it has profoundly WRONG things to say about the nature of God, is opposed to Christ, the religion is loaded with errors and stands in opposition to what God really is. It's not wrong because it believes in one god.

And I would agree with you, as I have said similar before.

PalladinValer,
But as pointed out Islam is monotheistic in one different god. So yes monotheistic in comparative religion terms, but crucial not the same god.

Muslims worship the same God as we do. Having a different theology about Him doesn't mean they worship a different God. To suggest otherwise is a logical fallacy and therefore devoid of truth.

Its not a straw man, its is the crucial reason why Isa isn’t the person of Jesus Christ.

Look up what a Straw Man is. A Straw Man ignores an argument and instead debates something created up by the perpetrator. Therefore, I am absolutely correct that he gave a Straw Man.

oh dear no. His comment was correct.

Unfotunately, Fallacies of Division are always false and therefore are null and void. Repeating them in following posts do not change their truth value.

 

[brightmorningstar]

PaldinValer,

Muslims worship the same God as we do.

Well obviously they do not worship God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That was the point The Biblical testimony of God says the denial of Jesus Christ the risen Son of God is denying God the Father as well.
Your statement doesn’t even acknowledge what Islam says let alone what Christianity says.

Having a different theology about Him doesn't mean they worship a different God.

but they don’t have any theology about Him, God Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they have a theology about Allah who is not Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

To suggest otherwise is a logical fallacy and therefore devoid of truth.

Which is gobblegook. God cannot be Father, risen and ascended Son and Holy Spirit as well as not Father, risen and ascended Son and Holy Spirit.

Look up what a Straw Man is.

Look up who Jesus Christ is in the Bible and look up who Allah is in the Quran. They are not the same entity.

Unfotunately, Fallacies of Division are always false and therefore are null and void. Repeating them in following posts do not change their truth value.

Gobbledegook is meaningless and of no constructive use to the debate.

I suggest you address the question to you, how can God be both the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Not what people think God might be but who He has revealed Himself as.

 

[PaladinValer]

I have offered you logical truth. You have rejected it. You also reject the official Anglican Communion position on the matter as well.

I'll stick to truth.