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Are non Christians going to hell?

Discussion in 'Covenant Theology' started by bangmegafan, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. bangmegafan

    bangmegafan Active Member

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    Jesus is not coming because He wanted to see everyone in heaven..He doesn't want at least one person to go to hell.. That is why Jesus second coming is getting delayed

    My question now, as population is getting grown as days passed by and most of the population are non Christians or Christians who are not up to the standard in God eyes, will this cycle ever end?

    As Jesus delayed more, there will more throughput to hell as world is travelling towards utmost sins as days passed by?

    Being said that, if all non believers are going to hell as they die, while witnessing their souls in hell, how come Jesus delay His second coming?

    I'm asking this as if Jesus delays more there will be more people going to hell but not to heaven..

    Hope someone can clarify me holistically..

    Thank you!
     
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  2. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Yes you are correct , we are promised that people will apostate and will become worse and worse over time untill God save every gentile he could (Romans 11:25) and these who do not want to be ruled over by God will be worshipping the antichrist .

    Jesus 2nd comming is to protect Israel from being wiped-out from face of earth not to save everybody but kill them with his sword from his mouth .

    Apostate part 2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



    Revelation 2

    Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


    Also people who go to hell are without excuse .

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    This can only be answered by looking at prophecy.

    God can see the beginning from the end, but also knows the end from the beginning.

    Romans 11 talks about God's chosen people, national Israel, His elect, being punished because the majority of Jews rejected their Messiah, therefore the gospel was presented to the Gentiles to make the Jews jealous enough to return. As punishment, God partially blinded their understanding, hardening their heart. But He hasn't totally abandoned them forever as some teach. There seems to be a number of Gentiles that will be saved called "the fullness of the Gentiles coming," and when we get to that number, no more Gentiles will be saved, and the blindness will be lifted off national Israel for a period of seven years (prophetically one week) (Daniel 9:27), during which time all Israel will be saved.

    Some will ask, then what about the Gentile martyrs during the Great Tribulation. Well, we wouldn't have to ask a silly question if we didn't believe we would escape the GT - we won't. It says in Revelation 7 that these are those who "come out of the Great Tribulation." The error lies in believing they weren't Christians already going in.
     
  4. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Who is the restrainer which will be taken out of the way?

    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
     
  5. name_is_irrelevant

    name_is_irrelevant Member

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    Hmm...

    Romans 9:18-22

    Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

    One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

    What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

    Do read the whole chapter, as well as the letter to the Romans, if you haven't already.

    No Christians are up to standard - God's standard is "you must therefore be perfect" - so I'm not sure I understand this question.

    Do you mean, with an increase in population, that must mean more people going to hell, and potentially more people to be saved, therefore Jesus' return should be delayed indefinitely?

    I'd say I don't really see how it's a matter of potential at all. How can potential work with predestination, as taught in Romans and Ephesians, eg:

    Ephesians 1:5

    He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will

    With destiny being factored in, as well as God clearly being in control of that and in charge of people's hearts, it seems to me that ultimately he is the one who pulls all the strings. So Jesus' return isn't ultimately dependent on waiting for people to repent. God can do what he wants.

    My conclusion is that we are basically all pawns in God's scheme, or "vessels" as St Paul puts it. Our salvation isn't the most important thing to God; his own glory as the potter is.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Its a very thoughtful question! God only, knows the answer.
     
  7. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Some say it's the Holy Spirit, others the church that will be the restrainer removed. I think it's the church with the Holy Spirit influence from believers and the Church The Body of Christ now gone. I don't believe the Holy Spirit will actually leave because He needs to be around for new converts brought to Christ by the 144,000 and for those who now suddenly realize they blew it.
     
  8. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    You are looking at the whole thing with a finite mind and understanding.

    You do not know nor do you understand the purposes God has put in His own hand, you cannot grasp the enormity of what has transpired sense the day of Creation until today, you do not understand God's Will for humanity, and His overall purpose.

    But it does appear as though you do question His motives for His actions.
    I don't think your going to get the answer or the justification your looking for.
     
  9. Drought of the Heart

    Drought of the Heart Active Member Supporter

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    First Jesus will come when God tells Him to , no one knows but God.
    Mark 13:32
    But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    Then yes the world will become more evil 2 Timothy 3. Jesus tells us it will be this days of Noah , Luke 17. Anything outside of Scriptures we do not have answers. There will be a generation alive and every generation was to be ready...
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I believe the Jews during their last seven year period will be added to the Church. Jews and Gentiles become One New Man.

    Ephesians 2:
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
     
  11. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    We all fall into the lake of fire when we sin, and crawl back out when we repent of that sin.
     
  12. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    That sounds like the ole' sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent syndrome. That's not the gospel; that's the blood of bulls and goats.

    5 Jesus was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin....9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    John is talking about being a new creature who does not commit willful sin.

    He also talks about those who willfully sin as having their father, the devil.
     
  13. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    It's a valid point. Peter writes, "You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." 2Peter 3:11b-12a I take it that we speed his coming by propagating the gospel diligently.

    As for the present time, though the population is growing, yet there is a certain advantage regarding evangelism in our time. Namely the world-wide availability of the gospel over the internet. Preaching the gospel involves communicating words. "Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." Acts 11:13,14 Today it's very easy to do that world wide. I myself have been doing so for decades. Over the decades I have potentially reached millions. I, merely an individual sitting at home, have a daily devotional email list of 6000 people.

    But granted throughout history, the majority of population have always been non-believers and the consequence hell. But remember that people who go to hell are not there as innocent victims of unjustified suffering. They are there as a matter of justice.

    All people have one of two fates. Either they will end up glorifying God's graciousness, or His judicial nature. Those who end up in hell do have a purpose. Their purpose is to glorify God's judicial nature.
     
  14. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Where in all of that 1John3:1-10 is the word willful used, or is it an assumption being alluded to?

    We should not read things into scripture just because it fits our Theology.
    I'm not arguing, I need clarity, show where it says Willful sin of the Believer.
     
  15. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Upon what do you base these statements?
     
  16. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    In John 3:1-10 (vs. 4) John said what kind of sin it is. LAWLESSNESS. Only a person walking in darkness commits lawlessness. Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    I always insert "willful," because it is of the will and in full knowledge. It could also be called lawless, presumptuous, or tempting God. It is with our knowledge of sin. This should give us pause: James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    Now check out Leviticus 5:15. Unintentional sin is called a TRESPASS (ring any bells) (We will commit trespasses, also called debts in some translations, and is included in the Lord's Prayer. But both are unintentional sin. “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering..."

    1 John 1:7 talks about a person walking in the light; however, the blood of Jesus is still cleansing him of sin. So if someone is walking in the Spirit, will he commit a lawless/willful/presumptuous sin; or a trespass sin not of his will.

    A Christian doesn't commit the lawless/willful/presumptuous sins. But if they do, in the OT they killed them, as there was no sacrifice for them who were of God's chosen people. They knew better.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

    Do word searches: unintentional, trespass, presumptuous, willful, tempt ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord Thy God" said by Jesus to Satan in the wildreness)


    Presumptuous:

    Exodus 21:14

    Numbers 15:30

    Deuteronomy 1:43

    Deuteronomy 17:12

    Deuteronomy 17:13

    Deuteronomy 18:22

    Psalm 19:13

    2 Peter 2:10

    Lawless:

    Matthew 7:23

    Matthew 13:41

    Matthew 23:28

    Matthew 24:12

    Acts 2:23

    Romans 6:19

    2 Corinthians 6:14

    2 Thessalonians 2:7

    1 Timothy 1:9

    Titus 2:14

    Hebrews 1:9

    1 John 3:4


    Trespass:

    Leviticus 5:15
    “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

    Leviticus 22:14

    Deuteronomy 4:42

    Deuteronomy 19:4

    Joshua 20:3

    Joshua 20:5

    Ezekiel 45:20


    Unintentional:

    Leviticus 4:2

    Leviticus 4:13

    Leviticus 4:22

    Leviticus 4:27

    Leviticus 5:15

    Leviticus 22:14

    Numbers 15:22-29

    Deuteronomy 4:42

    Deuteronomy 19:4

    Joshua 20:3

    Joshua 20:5

    Ezekiel 45:20
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  17. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Just chiming in. It is based on Jesus' letters to the seven churches (ages). The church age of Thyatira is the longest running denomination - Roman Catholic and Orthodox. And the first of the church ages that will run to the second coming.


    Revelation 2:21
    And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

    In particular, Jesus is against the fusing (sexual immorality) of pure Christianity with paganism - the Babylonian mystery religion of "mother and child." They have never repented of this blasphemy, but nevertheless, God still gave them time to repent, and still is, but we know from this prophetic letter, they never will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  18. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    [17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
    [18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
    [19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
    [20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV
     
  19. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, God is holy and cannot be unjust.
     
  20. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    He can be merciful when the situation warrants.
     
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