Are myths the basis of Protestantism?

[Iollain]

Same old Iollain with the same wild assumptions. But God would permit His chosen people to bow to a golden serpant?

I would like you to state where in the Bible people bowed and the serpent and kissed it and prayed at it. And it's not a wild assumption, it's true. And Peter would have no part of it, that is slanderous to say he would.

 

[Iollain]

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

This is what the Bible says, God said to look at it plain and simple.

 

[Iollain]

Does not say that the great serpent in Heaven will look down on earth and see you looking at his statue does it.

 

[Iollain]

2Ki 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

Here they did something God did not say to do, burn incense to it and name it Nehushtan. That was wrong.

 

[Dark Matter]

Just a thought....

3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4



"Thus says the Lord: 'Stand in the ways and see,
And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it;

Then you will find rest for your souls.

But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’"



Jeremiah 6:16

Saint_George
​

Keep up the great intellectual apologetics for the RCC; with solid evidential arguments such as these, why the RCC will soon rise to its former glory! ROTFL

Ahhh, okay, (wipes eyes, composure regained)... Sorry for the laps of professionalism, but the tenor of this post is recreant to rational dialogue.
Please, Saint_George, at least try to attribute a particular core confession of faith of protestant with a historical mythological structure before you post such benighted comments.

Dark Matter

 

[Kepha]

I would like you to state where in the Bible people bowed and the serpent and kissed it and prayed at it. And it's not a wild assumption, it's true. And Peter would have no part of it, that is slanderous to say he would.

Can you show me a verse where Peter said that venerating an image was wrong?

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

This is what the Bible says, God said to look at it plain and simple.

Good. So you admit that it is ok to venerate an icon. Now we just have to find you some verses where bowing doesn't always imply worship.

Genesis 23:7 (NIV)
Then Abraham rose and bowed down [shachah] before the people of the land, the Hittites.

Genesis 33:3 (NIV)
He himself [Jacob] went on ahead and bowed down [shachah] to the ground seven times as he approached his brother [Esau].

Genesis 42:6 (NIV)
Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the one who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down [shachah] to him with their faces to the ground.

Matthew 18:26(NIV)
“The servant fell on his knees [proskuneo] before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

​

It can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. I dare you say i worship Mary when i bow down and venerate Her image. I don't even know why i answer you Iollain. We've been over this before and you are already set in your personal beliefs and seems nothing can change your mind.

Oh well.

 

[Kepha]

2Ki 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

Here they did something God did not say to do, burn incense to it and name it Nehushtan. That was wrong.

They started to worship it. No wonder God was fuming.

 

[Iollain]

What was fiery supposed to mean in fiery serpant? I suppose it had the look of flames around it.

 

[Forest]

Sorry, i never meant it like that. I admit protestants teach the "Truth" on certain things. What i was saying is why should i believe a Bible alone believer's truth if they admit, they can teach error?

You should compare what is said to what is written.

However, why should I believe a Catholic Priest when they can teach false doctrines like trading indulgences for money? The only Catholic Priest I have ever spoke to told me that God is not omnipotent because if he could have stopped the Holocaust then he would have.

It all comes down to, where I would conclude that is an error by reading the bible, I assume you would decide it is error by comparing it to the teachings of the Church.

 

[Iollain]

Can you show me a verse where Peter said that venerating an image was wrong?

Peter would never have thought of it, it's a pagan thing and he was Jewish.

Good. So you admit that it is ok to venerate an icon. Now we just have to find you some verses where bowing doesn't always imply worship.

Could you explain yourself here?

Genesis 23:7 (NIV)
Then Abraham rose and bowed down [shachah] before the people of the land, the Hittites.

Genesis 33:3 (NIV)
He himself [Jacob] went on ahead and bowed down [shachah] to the ground seven times as he approached his brother [Esau].

Genesis 42:6 (NIV)
Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the one who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down [shachah] to him with their faces to the ground.

Matthew 18:26(NIV)
“The servant fell on his knees [proskuneo] before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

​

It can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. I dare you say i worship Mary when i bow down and venerate Her image. I don't even know why i answer you Iollain. We've been over this before and you are already set in your personal beliefs and seems nothing can change your mind.

Oh well.

Your right, nothing will change my mind. Peter would have a good talking to ya'll for bowing at statues and praying to those passed on i don't know how you can say he would participate in it, your baring false witness to say he would approve of it.

 

[Kepha]

Peter would never have thought of it, it's a pagan thing and he was Jewish.

That is not the verse i asked for. I want to make sure the Word of God says it not you. Again, show me where it was evil to venerate images and icons.

Could you explain yourself here?

The image was a link to God. That is called 'Venerating'.

your baring false witness to say he would approve of it.

lol, right back at you.

 

[Iollain]

That is not the verse i asked for. I want to make sure the Word of God says it not you. Again, show me where it was evil to venerate images and icons.

There isn't a verse that says it cause they didn't do it.

The image was a link to God. That is called 'Venerating'.

No, it was called looking at a serpent statue, was being obedient to what He said and He kept His word and healed when they looked at the thing.

lol, right back at you.

 

[Saint_George]

George we are not invisible, if we try to hide our faithfulness to Christ then He will deny us in the end.

I know what your talking about by corrupt, no explanation needed. Your either saved or your not.



Just cause you RCC have a big set of rules does not mean your 'the Church' that Jesus started, i'll say it again, Peter would not bow to a statue and pray to Mary.

You don't understand what the invisible church is.... but that is ok. The invisble church, is, invisible. It's members however are not. The invisble church is composed of all believers in christ (christians). However the members are visible and should preach his word. The visible churches, are those of different denominations.

Your assumption on the corrupted part is wrong. God called for unity and for the people to think alike. However there have been so many reforms through churches that on the scale of christians, 0 is a Jewish christian (not quite that extreme) and 10 is Presboluthicalvanariast. So in this Invisible church (all denominations that are christian) there is no unity. Leaving the invisible church corrupt.

We do have rules, they are not that complicated, unless your used to having only one, "Believe and be saved". And I'll tell you that Jesus did not start Protestant churches. Although he is the leader of the Protestant church he did not "start it" for say. Unless the reformation happened before 100 A.D. and the government is hiding stuff from us. The Catholic and EO are the churches founded by Jesus. Founded and Grounded. And about Peter... why not? Although Mary is an extremely important person in the eyes of Catholics, she is not as played up as people make it. I think that modern society changes our outlook on the way things are done. Bowing is showing a sign of respect. Watch the old movies. That is why we kneel before the altar, because we are respective of Jesus Christ our Lord.

And also... I still haven't had anybody answer my questions

Saint_George

 

[Kepha]

There isn't a verse that says it cause they didn't do it.

Hey, your the Bible alone believer. Stop making assumptions where it isn't implied.

No, it was called looking at a serpent statue, was being obedient to what He said and He kept His word and healed when they looked at the thing.

Really? Yeah, i'm sure they just looked at the serpant without a thought. Not in the real world. Why did they need an icon if it wasnt to represent the saving powers of God? Why didn't God just say to pray for it and it will be done? You seem to think you can read the minds of thousand year old Jews, so i'm sure you can do it again.

 

[Saint_George]

Ex 20:4-5 - do not make and worship any graven images
Ex 25:18-19 - make two cherubim of beaten gold
Num 21:8-9 - Moses made bronze serpent & put on pole
1Kgs 6:23-29 - temple had engraved cherubim, trees, flowers
1Kgs 7:25-45 - temple had bronze oxen, lions, pomegranates

There is no use in arguing about this. Catholics don't worship graven images. You protestants can argue all you want and try to make it look like we do. However, no matter what you say, WE DO NOT WORSHIP THEM! There is no argument needed about it. We don't do it!!

Saint_George

 

[Iollain]

Ex 20:4-5 - do not make and worship any graven images
Ex 25:18-19 - make two cherubim of beaten gold
Num 21:8-9 - Moses made bronze serpent & put on pole
1Kgs 6:23-29 - temple had engraved cherubim, trees, flowers
1Kgs 7:25-45 - temple had bronze oxen, lions, pomegranates

There is no use in arguing about this. Catholics don't worship graven images. You protestants can argue all you want and try to make it look like we do. However, no matter what you say, WE DO NOT WORSHIP THEM! There is no argument needed about it. We don't do it!!

Saint_George

Making two cherubim of beaten for God's seat on earth is ok, He said to do it.

Moses made the bronze serpent cause God told him to, people looked at it and were healed.

Noone bowed to and kissed etc the images and angel statues in the Temple anymore than i bow to and kiss and pray at the roosters that decorate my kitchen.

Whatever it is your doing with them, there is no need to say that Peter would agreee with it cause he would not.

 

[Saint_George]

Yes Peter.

 

[Saint_George]

Why does it matter to you? No-one is trying to make you worship any kind of statue. I don't even worship statues. I also don't see how you can tell us what Peter would have said... unless your speaking in 3rd person... lol

Peter says... Don't worship statues
Peter, "YOU'RE OUT!!! I saw it!! You worshiped one"
(A Buhdist has left the building)

lol

Saint_George

 

[Kepha]

You see. Even if we proved from the Bible that bowing down doesn't always imply worship, and that making statues or graven images can be done properly without also implying worship, Iollain still insists we are wrong while simutaneously speaking for St. Peter. I wonder why she has pics and symbols in her avatar since according to her system of beliefs, we should just look at them without giving what her images represent a thought. I hope you don't dare wear a cross Iollain. But i'm bettin if you do, you think of Christ when you look at it.

 

[Iollain]

Hey, your the Bible alone believer. Stop making assumptions where it isn't implied.

It is evil to venerate statues and icons and Peter would not have done it.

Really? Yeah, i'm sure they just looked at the serpant without a thought. Not in the real world. Why did they need an icon if it wasnt to represent the saving powers of God? Why didn't God just say to pray for it and it will be done? You seem to think you can read the minds of thousand year old Jews, so i'm sure you can do it again.

Yup, they were thinking that God said to look at the serpent and they would be healed. Your right after awhile they started to treat it differently and it was wrong. They didn't need an icon for anything, however God ordered a serpent made so that when they looked at it they would be healed.