Are Jews going to hell?

[Humble_Disciple]

I'm a big fan of Ben Shapiro, and I have a hard time believing that observant Jews are going to hell simply for not accepting Jesus as the Jewish messiah.

Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins, but God never made a covenant with Muslims.

God did, however, make a covenant with the Jews, and Romans 11:29 says that the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Without Christ, yes.

 

[Sabertooth]

I have a hard time believing that observant Jews are going to hell simply for not accepting Jesus as the Jewish messiah.

Do you have some other criteria for their Salvation?

Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins, but God never made a covenant with Muslims.

Do you have some other way for Muslims to get Saved...??

Before you answer those questions, reread Galatians 1:8-9.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Do you have some other way for Muslims to get Saved...??

God never made a covenant with Muslims, so I have no problem saying that Muslims must accept Jesus to be saved. I have a harder time saying that, however, about the Jewish people.

 

[Sabertooth]

God never made a covenant with Muslims, so I have no problem saying that Muslims must accept Jesus to be saved. I have a harder time saying that, however, about the Jewish people.

There were no Muslims at the advent of Christianity. Islam was founded by Muhammad around 610 A.D.

Jesus told His disciples,
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved;

but he who does not believe will be condemned..." Mark 16:15-16 NKJV​

and Paul wrote,
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,

for the Jew first and
also for the Greek.​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;
as it is written,

'The just shall live by faith.' ” Romans 1:16-17 NKJV​

The Gospel of Jesus is how the Jews get Saved,
and the rest of us, too.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

There were no Muslims at the advent of Christianity. Islam was founded by Muhammad around 610 A.D.

Jesus told His disciples,
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved;

but he who does not believe will be condemned..." Mark 16:15-16 NKJV​

and Paul wrote,
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,

for the Jew first and
also for the Greek.​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;
as it is written,

'The just shall live by faith.' ” Romans 1:16-17 NKJV​

I think you are missing my point. I believe that Islam is a false religion. I can't bring myself to say the same thing about Judaism.

 

[Sabertooth]

I can't bring myself to say the same thing about Judaism.

Judaism, without Jesus, is an immature "religion."
It is the right words without the right Spirit.
Messianic Judaism is the correct, living form of Judaism.
The former is no different than Gentile CHINOs, a.k.a. "Tares."

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,

but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.​

Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not

• prophesied in Your name,
• cast out demons in Your name, and
• done many wonders in Your name?’

And then I will declare to them,

‘I never knew you;
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV​

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Humble_Disciple, do you believe that Jews are saved on the basis of their birth alone (as descendants of Abraham and Sarah), or is it by some other means (and if the latter, what is the basis for God forgiving them and saving them)?

Thanks!

--David

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
.​

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Hello @Humble_Disciple, do you believe that Jews are saved on the basis of their birth alone (as descendants of Abraham and Sarah), or is it by some other means (and if the latter, what is the basis for God forgiving them and saving them)?

The New Testament says that Abraham was declared righteous by God due to his faith, not by works. I don't know why that can't be true of Jews today.

 

[Sabertooth]

Judaism, without Jesus, is an immature "religion."
It is the right words without the right Spirit.
Messianic Judaism is the correct, living form of Judaism.
The former is no different than Gentile CHINOs, a.k.a. "Tares."

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,

but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.​

Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not

• prophesied in Your name,
• cast out demons in Your name, and
• done many wonders in Your name?’

And then I will declare to them,

‘I never knew you;
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ " Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV​

"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
For men will be

• lovers of themselves,...
• ...
• lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
• having a form of godliness but denying its power.

And from such people turn away!" 2 Timothy 3:1-5 NKJV

 

[Sabertooth]

The New Testament says that Abraham was declared righteous by God due to his faith, not by works. I don't know why that can't be true of Jews today.

That Righteousness was "paid for" at the Cross. He believed on Jesus without knowing how that was going to play out.
The previous Passover sacrifices were a stand-in/a place-holder until the real Sacrifice arrived. Paul makes it clear that they no longer have redemptive value after Jesus' sacrifice.

God Will Provide A Lamb, Michael Card (1989)

 

[GospelS]

The New Testament says that Abraham was declared righteous by God due to his faith, not by works. I don't know why that can't be true of Jews today.

Because the promised son Messiah did come and Jews don’t believe it.

 

[St_Worm2]

The New Testament says that Abraham was declared righteous by God due to his faith, not by works. I don't know why that can't be true of Jews today.

Hello again Humble_Disciple, the OT says the same of him .. Genesis 15:6. So, assuming that what you believe is true, what was the point of the Incarnation and of the Cross? Were either of them necessary, and if so, why were they necessary?

Thanks again

--David

Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
.​

 

[Sabertooth]

...and Jews don’t believe it.

...and the unbelieving Jews rejected Him...

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus told certain Jews >

"if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins," in John 8:24.

Also, He told certain Jews,

"You are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do" in John 8:44.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

Also, in Jesus > "there is neither Jew nor Greek" (in Galatians 3:28).

And Colossians 3:11 says, "there is neither Greek nor Jew".

And about while Paul was a Pharisee Jew, he says,

"we all once" "were by nature children of wrath, just as the others," in Ephesians 2:3.

Here Paul is talking to Ephesian Gentiles among others. And he is saying he was the same as they were in sin. And he once considered himself to be a Pharisee Jew > the Pharisees despised Gentiles more than anyone, and considered them to be . . . inferior, I guess I could say. And yet . . . now Paul is saying he used to be the same as a Gentile, before he trusted in Jesus.

And the writer of Hebrews says if a person is not being corrected by God, he or she is not a child of God, I understand through Hebrews 12:8 >

"For if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

So, if people claim to be Jews, yet they do not submit to how our Father corrects us in Jesus, they are illegitimates, not children of God. And outward gestures of the Law of Moses won't change that. They need how Jesus lives in their hearts, like Paul says >

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

 

[eleos1954]

I'm a big fan of Ben Shapiro, and I have a hard time believing that observant Jews are going to hell simply for not accepting Jesus as the Jewish messiah.

Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins, but God never made a covenant with Muslims.

God did, however, make a covenant with the Jews, and Romans 11:29 says that the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

God looks at the heart .... all hearts.

All covenants are fulfilled in Christ ... no man can keep Gods covenants ... only God/Jesus can/did.

Judgement is totally up to Jesus and really we don't know who will or will not be saved because we don't know the "secret things" ... only God does.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm a big fan of Ben Shapiro, and I have a hard time believing that observant Jews are going to hell simply for not accepting Jesus as the Jewish messiah.

Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins, but God never made a covenant with Muslims.

God did, however, make a covenant with the Jews, and Romans 11:29 says that the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

John the baptizer's parents were both Jewish and John did not find out the precise nature of Christ's mission until just before He died. Were his parents and grand parents saved? Certainly they could have been.

1. Jews are not judged on the information that you and I have - only on what they have.
"To him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17


2. And also 1 Thess 2 - is true.
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all people, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them fully.

So also Rom 11:
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Sabertooth]

John the baptizer's parents were both Jewish and John did not find out the precise nature of Christ's mission until just before He died. Were his parents and grand parents saved? Certainly they could have been.

John and his parents were Old Testament saints.
Paul said that the animal sacrifice system (for one's sins, anyway) has been done away with in the NT. It is no longer valid/redemptive.

 

[BobRyan]

John and his parents were Old Testament saints.
Paul said that the animal sacrifice system (for one's sins, anyway) has been done away with in the NT. It is no longer valid/redemptive.

Paul says that animal sacrifices never forgave sins at all.

Heb 10:4
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Nobody in heaven will point to a goat as their savior.

Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory - before the cross even happens - by the merits of the blood of Christ - not by the high value of the blood of goats.

 

[Sabertooth]

Paul says that animal sacrifices never forgave sins at all.

Agree. They were a stand-in; a place-holder.*
Now, they are no longer even that.

*If done properly, the High Priest did not die.