Are 'formers' or 'free thinkers' mistreated?

reddogs

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I was over at CARM.ORG and after taking the pummeling of hate and bitterness from some, I was approached by a believer, who asked me to clarify what I had written on what Jesus said..."because many formers do not keep a sabbath, they "don't bother to follow what Jesus said."

I went over it and then asked, "why is that so many feel they are hated if they are 'formers' or have stopped going to church or struggle with a belief. I have struggled with many things that God has shown me, yet have not come across the pain that I see in some..."

Are 'formers' or 'free thinkers' as I call them, being mistreated by brethren from their church? If so, why, do they bring it on themselves or are they being "blackballed" for rejecting a belief or beliefs?

I dont want any personal attacks on this thread, I want to see what is the issue that is behind all of this...
 

reddogs

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Trust Disclaimer: The only free thinker I like to thwack is NightEternal.

Mostly because he likes it though.

Funny my wife thinks the same about me...;)


But I keep hearing this repeating theme that the "formers" or "free thinkers" said something to another member in church or in potluck, etc.. then their attitude to them changed and they then proceeded to "shun", "stop talking to" or immeadiately "throw them under the bus". Whatever happened to bringing before another brother or two, or was this done and is being left out of the story...........:scratch:
 
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TrustAndObey

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I wouldn't shun anyone for having issues with doctrine. Seriously, how could you look someone in the eye and see sincere questioning, and say "oh, you know, I can't fellowship with you anymore."

If there is someone on here (CF) that behaves rudely, though, I don't feel much need to hang out with them.

I'll just go ahead and say it...I notice a lot of condescending attitudes from Progressives (not all of them), and when it gets to the "I'm so much smarter than you are" stage...adios!

I'm a free thinker, I consider myself to be intelligent (really all I have to base that on is my grades at school)....but I don't feel the need to get into a debate about whose interpretation is "smarter".
 
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NightEternal

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:p I may be a free thinker, but not in the way that Red is using it (formers.)

Here are my thoughts on the matter Red:

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35222293&postcount=1

I do feel they are treated very badly by some segments of the church. Many Adventists consider them traitors and Judases. I have heard this with my own ears.

They have left the 'Ark Of Safety' and it frightens some SDA's to engage them.

Also, another factor to consider is: Are they formers who have left quietly, or are they actively and aggressively attacking the church like Colleen Tinker on the Former Adventist Forum? Formers like that and websites like that are pretty much inviting rebuttal and defensive attack from Adventists, and they know it.

I much more prefer the approach of Stan Ermshar and For The Gospel :thumbsup: :

http://www.forthegospel.org/

Very Christ-centered and free from attack. Stan is a reasonable, nice guy. He only wants to engage in friendly dialogue. I believe he broke away from the Former Adventist Forum because he was not comfortable with thier aggressiveness.
 
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reddogs

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:p I may be a free thinker, but not in the way that Red is using it (formers.)

Here are my thoughts on the matter Red:

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35222293&postcount=1

I do feel they are treated very badly by some segments of the church. Many Adventists consider them traitors and Judases. I have heard this with my own ears.

They have left the 'Ark Of Safety' and it frightens some SDA's to engage them.

Also, another factor to consider is: Are they formers who have left quietly, or are they actively and aggressively attacking the church like Colleen Tinker on the Former Adventist Forum? Formers like that and websites like that are pretty much inviting rebuttal and defensive attack from Adventists, and they know it.

I much more prefer the approach of Stan Ermshar and For The Gospel :thumbsup: :

http://www.forthegospel.org/

Very Christ-centered and free from attack. Stan is a reasonable, nice guy. He only wants to engage in friendly dialogue. I believe he broke away from the Former Adventist Forum because he was not comfortable with thier aggressiveness.

I define "formers" as those who have left the church and given up altogether, "freethinkers" are those using their God given mind to work through the beliefs and questions that arise. Dr. Bacchiocchi comes to mind.....
 
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djconklin

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Mostly because he likes it though.

ROFL! I would have added a couple of extra letters ...

Then there was Princess, my pure-breed collie, who saw my mom and dad play-fighting. Guess who got gnawed on? And with enough force to let him know that there was more where that was coming from ... Flash forward twenty years and we had two German shepherds--not allowed with them either. Guess who got yelled at?
 
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djconklin

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Seriously, how could you look someone in the eye and see sincere questioning, and say "oh, you know, I can't fellowship with you anymore."

I don't mind sincere questioning at all. But, to call me a liar, an idiot, and try to tell me which way is up when they haven't done a lick of work on the subject--isn't a mark of sincere questioning at all. In fact, so far I have only had about four or five people ask sincere questions about my plagiarism study and none on my studies on the meaning of Col. 2:16-17, the date of the book of Daniel, or the one on the role of women. I suspect that out picture of the sincere questioner needs a reality check. They are very few and far between.
 
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Jimlarmore

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I was over at CARM.ORG and after taking the pummeling of hate and bitterness from some, I was approached by a believer, who asked me to clarify what I had written on what Jesus said..."because many formers do not keep a sabbath, they "don't bother to follow what Jesus said."

I went over it and then asked, "why is that so many feel they are hated if they are 'formers' or have stopped going to church or struggle with a belief. I have struggled with many things that God has shown me, yet have not come across the pain that I see in some..."

Are 'formers' or 'free thinkers' as I call them, being mistreated by brethren from their church? If so, why, do they bring it on themselves or are they being "blackballed" for rejecting a belief or beliefs?

I dont want any personal attacks on this thread, I want to see what is the issue that is behind all of this...

Hi Red,
Thanks for this thread. I'm not exactly sure why there is so much vitriol from formers. I experienced the same thing when I was over on Carm. I think we need to remember the source for hate and discontent. Someone who really has the love of Christ in their hearts will not treat his brother or sister that way. I have always said that if I could find another church that followed the Bible closer than the SDA church I would go there. I have come out of several other churches in the past like the Baptists and pentacostals and I don't have any ill feelings for those who are still there in those churches.

It could be that deep down inside they know they have really chosen the wrong side but since they continue to justify their decisions by rationalizations pride won't let them come back home. When we tell ourselves a lie long enough and refuse the calling of the Holy Spirit eventually we will really believe it and the Holy Spirit will not try anymore.

Some say it was the Holy Spirit that led them out of the SDA church. I honestly think it may have been a spirit but not the Holy Spirit. I've dialogued with too many formers who have to twist the scriptures to fit what they are doing to believe it was the Holy Spirit who led them away. Satan is mighty crafty.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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reddogs

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Hi Red,
Thanks for this thread. I'm not exactly sure why there is so much vitriol from formers. I experienced the same thing when I was over on Carm. I think we need to remember the source for hate and discontent. Someone who really has the love of Christ in their hearts will not treat his brother or sister that way. I have always said that if I could find another church that followed the Bible closer than the SDA church I would go there. I have come out of several other churches in the past like the Baptists and pentacostals and I don't have any ill feelings for those who are still there in those churches.

It could be that deep down inside they know they have really chosen the wrong side but since they continue to justify their decisions by rationalizations pride won't let them come back home. When we tell ourselves a lie long enough and refuse the calling of the Holy Spirit eventually we will really believe it and the Holy Spirit will not try anymore.

Some say it was the Holy Spirit that led them out of the SDA church. I honestly think it may have been a spirit but not the Holy Spirit. I've dialogued with too many formers who have to twist the scriptures to fit what they are doing to believe it was the Holy Spirit who led them away. Satan is mighty crafty.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I have a very strong suspicion that they are being drawn by another spirit as my instincts tell me it seems almost as if it is being 'cordinated' or being manipulated somehow......

Happy Sabbath
Red
 
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reddogs

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My case doesn't really apply because I left behind all beliefs, not just the Adventist ones. I wish my church would stop sending me letters though. :sigh:

I feel like there's a point where it crosses the line of concern/love and becomes harassment.

So what do you believe?
 
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djconklin

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I wish my church would stop sending me letters though. :sigh:

I feel like there's a point where it crosses the line of concern/love and becomes harassment.

At least they send you something--it shows they still care about you. Try being ignored--that won't be nice I can tell you.

Send them a dated letter asking to be removed from their mailing list--get it notarized and xerox a copy for yourself before mailing. Then if they send you another one (allow time for their system to catch up with itself) you send yet another letter notifying them that you had already asked politely to be removed from their system (attach a copy of the letter) and that if they send you another one you are going to sue the bejesus out of 'em!

In the meantime, you've got lots of time to study the Bible!
 
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Sunrunner

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We aren't made to be alone. We're social animals.

I'm referring to the fact that I get a weekly reminder that I'm allegedly siding with Satan. :doh:

P.S. - What's with all the forum changes? I haven't been that active at CF and I'm wondering why I can post here and why unorthodox Christians have a section up here now. Did they abolish the Christians Only rule?
 
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