Are converts to Judaism allowed to make Aliyah to Israel?

[ShirChadash]

I've been wondering about this for a while.

 

[Henaynei]

Orthodox converts have the least difficulty making aliyah - Messianic converts have the most difficulty (to the point of only being able to make aliyah IF they manange to do so without anyone finding out they are messianic) Even people BORN Jewish and living an orthodox lifestyle, if found to be Messianic are not allowed to make aliyah.

If you doubt this, do a web search for Gary and Shirley Beresford - and read their book "The Unpromised Land." R. Gary and Shirley Beresford are now residing in Florida after striving in the land for over 13 years and many court battles in the land to be granted citizenship.

 

[Hix]

If done under as a full Orthodox Jewish conversion then yes. Conservative, Reform, Messianic and any other form of conversion is not accepted as giving you the right to make Aliyah.

Would love to do so some day myself, the hearts and souls of all true Jews rest in Eretz Yisrael

 

[ShirChadash]

Okay, I was just wondering if one must have Jewish blood specifically to make Aliyah or if a convert into Judaism is able to make aliyah as well. *sigh* I know that Messianics are a major no-no. Isn't it amazing? If Yeshua were not true, then Judaism wouldn't be so threatened by believers in Him who also stand FOR Israel and embrace His people, and love His people. Lubavitchers can make aliyah, I suppose, eh?

 

[Multi-Elis]

The law says that:

• Jews, children of jews and Grandchildren of Jews are aloud to make aliya.
• You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish
• All the above is valid as long as you didn't convert to another religion.

The annoying thing, is that even if you are messianic, and don't see yourself as having changed religions, some big heads have decided you aren't. And the paradox, is that if you are a jew who doesn't believe in God, you are still a jew. But then of course, if you happen to be more jewish in a sense than the athiest jews, but you belive in Yeshua... your in trouble.

Actually, I think the way to get around it is to say that you are a decendant of a Jew, but don't claim to be a Jew. That way you get around being accused of falsehood and dishonesty when filling in your papers. And that way you can also be comfortable and not be afraid someone is going to "find you out".

But of course, this topic is on converts to jeudeism, I suppose.

There are other ways to make aliya without having to worry if you are jewish or not.

1. If you renounce any current citizenship you have
2. live in Israel at least 3 or 5 years (I forget how long)
3. learn hebrew and speak it fluently
4. give reason to believe you are planning to stay in the long term (job)
5. express agreement with the state of Israel's values

If you do all the above, you can apply for citizenship with out being considered a Jew or a decendant of one. This does not mean you will automatically get citizenship, they still have to approve of you...
But that's how all of you messianic converts can try...

 

[Hix]

Converts to Chabad Lubavitcher if they are ones that believe the late Rebbi to be HaMoshiach can make Aliyah as they have undergone full orthodox conversions and dont worship someone other than HaShem (ie Yeshua) which is seen by Rabbinical Judaism as permissible for gentiles but not for Jews.

 

[Multi-Elis]

Paradox, isn't it?

 

[Henaynei]

The law says that:

• Jews, children of jews and Grandchildren of Jews are aloud to make aliya.
• You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish
• All the above is valid as long as you didn't convert to another religion.

After many years of struggle and many court challenges the Beresfords did get the Israeli courts to admit, on the legal court record, that from a Jewish legal viewpoint, Messianic Judaism is NOT Christianity. However, they still consider it "another religion" other than Judaism. The REAL paradox is that the Dept. of Immigration (Ultra-Orthodox all) allows Buddist Jews, Ba'hai Jews, athiest and New Age Jews to make aliyah. They even allow Reform, Reconstrictionist and Socialistic/Communistic Jews to make aliyah with little to no problem.

The Beresfords are both born Jewish, lived as jews in So Africa all their lives until they moved to Israel. There they lived in the Land for 13 years and speak (and teach) Hebrew, they have a firm stand for Israel, and they were more than willing to renounce their So African/British citizenship and their sons (who were allowed to make aliyah) serve in the IDF . They had been supporting themselves for those 13 years without any public assistance before they finally had to leave Israel because of the courts final decision.

There are other ways to make aliya without having to worry if you are jewish or not.

1. If you renounce any current citizenship you have
2. live in Israel at least 3 or 5 years (I forget how long)
3. learn hebrew and speak it fluently
4. give reason to believe you are planning to stay in the long term (job)
5. express agreement with the state of Israel's values

If you do all the above, you can apply for citizenship with out being considered a Jew or a decendant of one. This does not mean you will automatically get citizenship, they still have to approve of you...
But that's how all of you messianic converts can try...

 

[Atkin]

If Yeshua were not true, then Judaism wouldn't be so threatened by believers in Him who also stand FOR Israel and embrace His people, and love His people.

I guess it depends on what the teachings are.
Judaism teaches against idolatry and maintains that consistency.

 

[Hix]

The possible reason for the paradox is the fear of if they let MJs in under aliyah, losing Rabbinic Jews to MJ. The other ones like Jews who are buddhist or hare krishna etc dont pose a threat becuase they in general dont proselytise. Whilst not all MJ's mission to the Jews in a J4J style (i wouldnt consider it), it is my guess that that is the reason for the very unfair reasons as to why we seem to be the only ones unable to make Aliyah.

 

[Atkin]

The possible reason for the paradox is the fear of if they let MJs in under aliyah, losing Rabbinic Jews to MJ. The other ones like Jews who are buddhist or hare krishna etc dont pose a threat becuase they in general dont proselytise. Whilst not all MJ's mission to the Jews in a J4J style (i wouldnt consider it), it is my guess that that is the reason for the very unfair reasons as to why we seem to be the only ones unable to make Aliyah.

That implies an assumption that Rabbinic Jews are more loyal to Israel than MJs.

Wonder why they would fear losing Rabbinic Jews to MJ. Why should that "concern" exist over retaining Rabbinic Jews since both groups would be equally loyal to Israel.

 

[Hix]

Thats not the idea, its not over loyalty to Israel but rather not wanting to lose Rabbinical Jews to what they see as a false religion. I dont understand or accept it myself, and some day who knows, maybe theyl let MJs in to counter the larger proportion of Arab birth rates etc.

In fact Mj's are more loyal to Israel than certain strange groups of Hassidim who actually are anti-zionist, believing the Eretz Yisrael should not exist untill the Messiah comes. yet they are allowed to make Aliyah *shrugs*

 

[Multi-Elis]

The Beresfords are both born Jewish, lived as jews in So Africa all their lives until they moved to Israel. There they lived in the Land for 13 years and speak (and teach) Hebrew, they have a firm stand for Israel, and they were more than willing to renounce their So African/British citizenship and their sons (who were allowed to make aliyah) serve in the IDF . They had been supporting themselves for those 13 years without any public assistance before they finally had to leave Israel because of the courts final decision.

Possibly.
I was quoting to you the chapter of Israely civil education or what ever you call it, the chapter I remember best, because I used to want to become an Israeli citizen...but I'm not willing to give up being French or American unless God tells me to. So any way, that was the chapter I knew best. I would recite it to many people.

 

[Atkin]

Thats not the idea, its not over loyalty to Israel but rather not wanting to lose Rabbinical Jews to what they see as a false religion. I dont understand or accept it myself, and some day who knows, maybe theyl let MJs in to counter the larger proportion of Arab birth rates etc.

In fact Mj's are more loyal to Israel than certain strange groups of Hassidim who actually are anti-zionist, believing the Eretz Yisrael should not exist untill the Messiah comes. yet they are allowed to make Aliyah *shrugs*

There seems to be 2 conflicting things with that view. There should not be
any preference for any group regarding religion since the state is not a religious state like Saudi etc.. it is religiously neutral. The religion plays more of a background role in a state that is not ruled by a religious leader like ayatollahs etc.

There must be some factor motivating them to actually weigh religion into that decision.

 

[Multi-Elis]

It's full of contradictions. That is what would get me really upset when I was studying Israely civics. But most Israelies don't care, it doesn't concern them, they live in the country, that is all, however some groups of Israelies are hoping to change things - like the right to not have "jewish" of "Christian" written on their passport, but rather Israeli...

 

[Henaynei]

Possibly.
I was quoting to you the chapter of Israely civil education or what ever you call it, the chapter I remember best, because I used to want to become an Israeli citizen...but I'm not willing to give up being French or American unless God tells me to. So any way, that was the chapter I knew best. I would recite it to many people.

There are a few countries for which Israeli civil law allows one to retain citizenship and therefore have dual citizenship. Briton is one and USA is one, I don't think France is one though.

 

[yod]

If you look at the thread I started called "Israel - an arab state?" I think you will see why Israel will soon be taking anyone who has a friendly posture towards them.

 

[Multi-Elis]

You can certainly keep all your citizenships if you make Aliya claming to be a Jew or a decendent of a Jew.

What I said is one of the ways to do Aliya, getting around the Jewish question.
Others on the list include granted favour by the government, if for some reason they really like you. If you are born and raised in Israel, not jewish, between ages 18 and 21, and are not entitled to any citizenship, you can apply for Israeli citizenship, because of international that allows all people to have the right to a citizenship, if they didn't have the chance to have one. These are just two other examples.