Are Christmas Trees Pagan according to Jeremiah 10?

[Kees Boer]

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 

[Tolworth John]

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

If you are in the habit of singing that dreadful song ' oh christmas tree!' then yes christmas trees are forbidden, or if you worship an objecj cut out of your christmas tree then it is forbidden.

 

[Saint JOHN]

YES

 

[SamInNi]

Hello Kees. I'd say not. The purpose of the warning here is to condemn the practice of fashioning wood to be lifted up and idolised as a god. It's the way of the nations to replace the one true God with somethng else.

 

[HTacianas]

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Jeremiah 10 discusses cutting down a tree and carving it into an idol. The use of the word "axe" isn't appropriate for the translation. The meaning is actually "chisel". It is only the unfortunate coincidence that "deck" is used to describe layering the idol with gold and jewels as it is used to describe the decorating of a Christmas tree. By the way, Christmas trees have nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

in this case, it's not the same thing. The gods being worshiped in Jeremiah's context required human sacrifice.

The christmas celebration on December 25 is a euro-replacement date for the yule celebration.

 

[Blade]

Context. And no offense I know people mean well. It would be nice if we didn't skip over parts of Jer. Well whats the reason for cutting down that tree? Lets stop there. Is that what they did? They cut down that tree and then decorated it? Nope not even close. So why are you cutting down that tree? Yeah not to make into a idol (god) and then worship it. See what they leave out. The guilt which Christ died for. He will never condemn you nor make you feel guilty. God has never told anyone I know to never celebrate His birth. I know He loves to give gifts like we do. Yeah were do you think that desire come from. So thank you op I disagree. Context

 

[The Liturgist]

Context. And no offense I know people mean well. It would be nice if we didn't skip over parts of Jer. Well whats the reason for cutting down that tree? Lets stop there. Is that what they did? They cut down that tree and then decorated it? Nope not even close. So why are you cutting down that tree? Yeah not to make into a idol (god) and then worship it. See what they leave out. The guilt which Christ died for. He will never condemn you nor make you feel guilty. God has never told anyone I know to never celebrate His birth. I know He loves to give gifts like we do. Yeah were do you think that desire come from. So thank you op I disagree. Context

Exactly.

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Mistranslation taken out of context will produce misleading answers: Let’s take a look at what Jeremiah 10 actually says:

¹O house of Israel, hear the word of the Lord, for He has spoken to you. ²Thus says the Lord: “Do not learn the ways of the Gentiles, and do not be afraid because of signs from the sky, for they themselves reverence these. ³For the customs of the peoples are vain. This vanity is a tree cut from the forest, the work of a craftsman, or it is a molten image. ⁴They are embellished with silver and gold with a hammer, and they strengthen them with nails so they will not move. ⁵They will be taken up and carried, for they cannot walk by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, because they cannot do evil, nor is there any good thing in them. ⁶The silver is worked in relief, and they cannot travel anywhere. The silver overlays come from Tarshish, the gold from Uphaz. All handiwork is the work of goldsmiths and craftsmen, and they will dress them in hyacinth and purple.”

This clearly refers to idols and not Christmas trees for a great many reasons including most obviously that trees cannot walk by themselves under any conceit.

My friend @MarkRohfrietsch is somewhat expert in this area I believe and might perhaps be able to provide more information to greater specificity.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Exactly.



Mistranslation taken out of context will produce misleading answers: Let’s take a look at what Jeremiah 10 actually says:

¹O house of Israel, hear the word of the Lord, for He has spoken to you. ²Thus says the Lord: “Do not learn the ways of the Gentiles, and do not be afraid because of signs from the sky, for they themselves reverence these. ³For the customs of the peoples are vain. This vanity is a tree cut from the forest, the work of a craftsman, or it is a molten image. ⁴They are embellished with silver and gold with a hammer, and they strengthen them with nails so they will not move. ⁵They will be taken up and carried, for they cannot walk by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, because they cannot do evil, nor is there any good thing in them. ⁶The silver is worked in relief, and they cannot travel anywhere. The silver overlays come from Tarshish, the gold from Uphaz. All handiwork is the work of goldsmiths and craftsmen, and they will dress them in hyacinth and purple.”

This clearly refers to idols and not Christmas trees for a great many reasons including most obviously that trees cannot walk by themselves under any conceit.

My friend @MarkRohfrietsch is somewhat expert in this area I believe and might perhaps be able to provide more information to greater specificity.

As always, you are spot on. Trees, silver and gold, our physical abilities (craftsmanship) are all gifts from God that can be used for good or evil. When our abilities and other God given gifts are used to celebrate and glorify our Lord it is most appropriate to do so. When God given gifts and talents are perverted and used for ungodly purposes those same objects and skills become idolatry and even blasphemy.

Worldly riches are a gift from God, you can used money for good or for evil. Same thing.

In our Church we put up a big tree and we decorate it with ornaments that are apples that represent the fall of mankind, and large white "Hosts" that represent the body and blood of Christ, and the redemption that He bought for us. The implication that such a tree is evil and an Idol when it teaches both the law and the Gospel.

 

[Kees Boer]

As always, you are spot on. Trees, silver and gold, our physical abilities (craftsmanship) are all gifts from God that can be used for good or evil. When our abilities and other God given gifts are used to celebrate and glorify our Lord it is most appropriate to do so. When God given gifts and talents are perverted and used for ungodly purposes those same objects and skills become idolatry and even blasphemy.

Worldly riches are a gift from God, you can used money for good or for evil. Same thing.

In our Church we put up a big tree and we decorate it with ornaments that are apples that represent the fall of mankind, and large white "Hosts" that represent the body and blood of Christ, and the redemption that He bought for us. The implication that such a tree is evil and an Idol when it teaches both the law and the Gospel.
View attachment 325653

That's a very nice tree.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

That's a very nice tree.

Thank you!

 

[Arctangent]

Are Christmas trees pagan according to Jeremiah 10. If they are, we shouldn't use them. But is this what Jeremiah 10 talks about? This is what It says:

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

My answer to the question is "no".

The passage begins by discussing the heathen being "dismayed by the signs of the heavens." The paradigm of Scripture is that the sun, moon, and stars are directly associated with angelic beings who are assigned by God to govern the movements of those heavenly objects. That association is very strong, and often in Scripture the two are spoken of interchangeably. That is, the stars and the angels who govern the movement of those stars are seen as being synonymous with each other. And of course, many of those angels who once governed the movements of the stars rebelled and fell, and are now demons, which the pagans know as gods, and which still associate those fallen angels with the hosts of the heavens.

By leading with this, we know that the rest of the passage is about idolatry and the worship of demons. And the way those demons were worshiped was by crafting for them a body and then offering sacrifices to the god which was no inhabiting that body. That is the essence of what idolatry and idol worship are.

So when we see the rest of the verses about chopping down a tree and having a craftsman work the wood and "decorate" it, the only context in which to understand that for the original audience was the context of crafting an idol in the image of the god they were going to worship.

Immediately after that, those idols are directly compared to God, another blatant clue that we are discussing idolatry as the original audience understood idolatry. And in that section, the gods that had been carved from trees that had been chopped down are described in even more detail. In particular, the idols' clothing is described. This was also an integral part of the process of forming and worshipping idols, which was dressing the idol to make it appear kingly and divine.

If one reads Jeremiah 10 in multiple translations (I would also recommend some translations of the Septuagint), one clearly sees that it is about crafting and worshiping idols.

 

[StephenDisraeli]

If we compare this passage with Isaiah, especially ch44 and ch46, it becomes easier to see that the prophets are talking about the practice of making idols out of wood, dressing them up in rich clothes, and carrying them around (e.g. to "bless" the fields).

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Prophet Jeremiah is condemning the practice of making asherahs. Asherahs, named for the goddess Asherah, wre ritual poles erected as a cultic dedication and devotion to the goddess Asherah. The cult of Asherah was a major issue for pre-Exile Israel and the Prophets condemned it regularly.

Unless you are carving a wooden pole, inlaying it with gold and other decorations, and erecting it out of devotion to a pagan deity then the reference to wooden poles and decorating them doesn't apply.

There's simply no comparison to be made between asherahs and Christmas trees, it's not even like comparing apples and oranges; it's more like comparing apples and orangutans.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

The Prophet Jeremiah is condemning the practice of making asherahs. Asherahs, named for the goddess Asherah, wre ritual poles erected as a cultic dedication and devotion to the goddess Asherah. The cult of Asherah was a major issue for pre-Exile Israel and the Prophets condemned it regularly.

Unless you are carving a wooden pole, inlaying it with gold and other decorations, and erecting it out of devotion to a pagan deity then the reference to wooden poles and decorating them doesn't apply.

There's simply no comparison to be made between asherahs and Christmas trees, it's not even like comparing apples and oranges; it's more like comparing apples and orangutans.

-CryptoLutheran

Indeed it is amusing to consider what St. Jeremiah is condemning is closer to the Festivus Pole from Seinfeld than a Christmas Tree.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Indeed it is amusing to consider what St. Jeremiah is condemning is closer to the Festivus Pole from Seinfeld than a Christmas Tree.

I can't stand Seinfeld's show.

 

[Kees Boer]

Indeed it is amusing to consider what St. Jeremiah is condemning is closer to the Festivus Pole from Seinfeld than a Christmas Tree.

Was the Festivus Pole from Seinfeld meant to be religious?

 

[The Liturgist]

Was the Festivus Pole from Seinfeld meant to be religious?

Exactly my point, considering the Christmas Tree is not an object of worship, but rather a decoration celebrating the incarnation of God, whereas the Festivus Pole has been elevated to a religious object by adherents of various humanist cults in order to get it placed in government buildings alongside more legitimate displays by Christians celebrating the Nativity, Jews celebrating Chanukah, Hindus celebrating Diwali, African Americans celebrating Kwanzaa, and so on.

The Christmas Tree on the other hand is something enjoyed by Christians and the larger society as a whole, and is important as a cultural reminder of Christianity, like Salvation Army brass bands and Christmas Carols.

Well

I can't stand Seinfeld's show.

I can see how it would get on your nerves.

 

[Aaron112]

If you are in the habit of singing that dreadful song ' oh christmas tree!' then yes christmas trees are forbidden, or if you worship an objecj cut out of your christmas tree then it is forbidden.

Along with other things in life, of the life of someone who does a tree,
if they do such things,
and don't spend as much time feeding the poor, aiding the sick, housing the homeless,
does it matter at all if a tree is pagan or not ? It may just be taking the place of doing what is right, of doing what Jesus Says Do.

 

[The Liturgist]

Along with other things in life, of the life of someone who does a tree,
if they do such things,
and don't spend as much time feeding the poor, aiding the sick, housing the homeless,
does it matter at all if a tree is pagan or not ? It may just be taking the place of doing what is right, of doing what Jesus Says Do.

Christmas tree supply and sales and the supply and sale of ornaments create badly needed jobs for people in low-income situations. Also the sale of commemorative ornaments helps to finance charities and charitable operations.