Are Christians to Obey the Law of God/Jesus?

[RexColin]

Deu 11:26-27 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: (27) the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today;
Gen 4:7-9 NASB "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." (8) Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. (9) Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

• Keeper = Hebrew shâmar (shaw-mar') Strong's H8104 to hedge about (as with thorns), that is, guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc.: - beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).
  

Exo 20:19-20 NASB Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die." (20) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."

• Sinner/sinful = Hebrew chaṭṭâ' (khat-taw') Strong’s H2400; a criminal, or one accounted guilty: - offender, sinful, sinner.

In order to be a criminal you have to have committed a crime, in order to commit a crime you must break a Law.

1Jn 3:4-12 NASB Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. (5) You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. (6) No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (7) Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (8) the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (11) For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; (12) not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brothers were righteous.

1.Is anyone who does not practice the Law born of God?​

Mat 24:11-14 NASB "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (14) "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

2.What does Jesus say The Gospel is?​

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

3.If you truly love Jesus, what will you do?​

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

4.What does Jesus say that love is?​

Deu 30:10-11 NASB if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. (11) "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

5.What does Paul say Love is?

a.Fulfillment = the meeting of a requirement or condition​

1Co 13:3-7 NASB And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. (4) Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, (5) does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, (6) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; (7) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments.

6.What does John say Love is?​

1Jn 5:2-4 NASB By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
1Pe 4:8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Mat 5:17-18 NASB "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

7.Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet?​

Mat 7:21-24 NASB "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. (22) "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' (23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (24) "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

8.Has the Commandments of God, the Law of God, been done away with by Jesus?​

1Ti 1:5-8 NASB But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. (6) For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, (7) wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (8) But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully

9.How do we know when the Law of God is good?​

Jas 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

10.Who will be blessed in what he does?​

Psa 119:44-47 NASB So I will keep Your law continually, Forever and ever. (45) And I will walk at liberty, For I seek Your precepts. (46) I will also speak of Your testimonies before kings And shall not be ashamed. (47) I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.
Mat 24:12-13 NASB "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Ecc 12:13-14 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. (14) For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

11.To whom does “fear God and keep his commandments” apply to?​

Exo 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

12.Does that love for God include you?​

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the COMMANDMENTS of God and their FAITH in Jesus.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS.
Rev 22:12-13 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to WHAT HE HAS DONE. (13) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

 

[SkyWriting]

Deu 11:26-27 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: (27) the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today;
Gen 4:7-9 NASB "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." (8) Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. (9) Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"
Exo 20:19-20 NASB Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die." (20) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."

• Sinner/sinful = Hebrew chaṭṭâ' (khat-taw') Strong’s H2400; a criminal, or one accounted guilty: - offender, sinful, sinner.

In order to be a criminal you have to have committed a crime, in order to commit a crime, you must break a Law.

1Jn 3:4-12 NASB Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. (5) You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. (6) No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (7) Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (8) the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (11) For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; (12) not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brothers were righteous.

1.Is anyone who does not practice the Law born of God?​

Mat 24:11-14 NASB "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (14) "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

2.What does Jesus say The Gospel is?​

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

3.If you truly love Jesus, what will you do?​

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

4.What does Jesus say that love is?​

Deu 30:10-11 NASB if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. (11) "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

5.What does Paul say Love is?

a.Fulfillment = the meeting of a requirement or condition​

1Co 13:3-7 NASB And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. (4) Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, (5) does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, (6) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; (7) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments.

6.What does John say Love is?​

1Jn 5:2-4 NASB By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
1Pe 4:8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Mat 5:17-18 NASB "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

7.Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet?​

Mat 7:21-24 NASB "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. (22) "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' (23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (24) "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

8.Has the Commandments of God, the Law of God, been done away with by Jesus?​

1Ti 1:5-8 NASB But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. (6) For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, (7) wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (8) But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully

9.How do we know when the Law of God is good?​

Jas 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

10.Who will be blessed in what he does?​

Psa 119:44-47 NASB So I will keep Your law continually, Forever and ever. (45) And I will walk at liberty, For I seek Your precepts. (46) I will also speak of Your testimonies before kings And shall not be ashamed. (47) I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.
Mat 24:12-13 NASB "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Ecc 12:13-14 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. (14) For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

11.To whom does “fear God and keep his commandments” apply to?​

Exo 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

12.Does that love for God include you?​

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the COMMANDMENTS of God and their FAITH in Jesus.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS.
Rev 22:12-13 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to WHAT HE HAS DONE. (13) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

There is a new law in town, pardner:

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

 

[RexColin]

There is a new law in town, pardner:

So you reference a scripture (Romans 13) telling of the authority of God yet claim he has none because someone made a "new Law in town"?! umm scratching my head on that one, but you can go with that if you like. But the Romans 13 I read starts off specifically saying the opposite of what you just claimed.
Romans 13 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the [powers] that be are ordained of God. 2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ORDINANCE of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment.

 

[SkyWriting]

So you reference a scripture (Romans 13) telling of the authority of God yet claim he has none because someone made a "new Law in town"?! umm scratching my head on that one, but you can go with that if you like. But the Romans 13 I read starts off specifically saying the opposite of what you just claimed.
Romans 13 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the [powers] that be are ordained of God. 2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ORDINANCE of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment.

Local secular law is how the Father works his will on earth.
There are other passages that clarify.
(Research Acts 5 thoroughly before tossing it back)

What Does the Bible Say About the authority of Local, Secular Government?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Deu 11:26-27 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: (27) the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today;
Gen 4:7-9 NASB "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." (8) Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. (9) Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

• Keeper = Hebrew shâmar (shaw-mar') Strong's H8104 to hedge about (as with thorns), that is, guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc.: - beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).

Exo 20:19-20 NASB Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die." (20) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."

• Sinner/sinful = Hebrew chaṭṭâ' (khat-taw') Strong’s H2400; a criminal, or one accounted guilty: - offender, sinful, sinner.

In order to be a criminal you have to have committed a crime, in order to commit a crime you must break a Law.

1Jn 3:4-12 NASB Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. (5) You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. (6) No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (7) Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (8) the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (11) For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; (12) not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brothers were righteous.

1.Is anyone who does not practice the Law born of God?​

Mat 24:11-14 NASB "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (14) "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

2.What does Jesus say The Gospel is?​

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

3.If you truly love Jesus, what will you do?​

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

4.What does Jesus say that love is?​

Deu 30:10-11 NASB if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. (11) "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

5.What does Paul say Love is?

a.Fulfillment = the meeting of a requirement or condition​

1Co 13:3-7 NASB And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. (4) Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, (5) does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, (6) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; (7) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments.

6.What does John say Love is?​

1Jn 5:2-4 NASB By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
1Pe 4:8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Mat 5:17-18 NASB "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

7.Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet?​

Mat 7:21-24 NASB "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. (22) "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' (23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (24) "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

8.Has the Commandments of God, the Law of God, been done away with by Jesus?​

1Ti 1:5-8 NASB But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. (6) For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, (7) wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (8) But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully

9.How do we know when the Law of God is good?​

Jas 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

10.Who will be blessed in what he does?​

Psa 119:44-47 NASB So I will keep Your law continually, Forever and ever. (45) And I will walk at liberty, For I seek Your precepts. (46) I will also speak of Your testimonies before kings And shall not be ashamed. (47) I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.
Mat 24:12-13 NASB "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Ecc 12:13-14 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. (14) For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

11.To whom does “fear God and keep his commandments” apply to?​

Exo 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

12.Does that love for God include you?​

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the COMMANDMENTS of God and their FAITH in Jesus.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS.
Rev 22:12-13 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to WHAT HE HAS DONE. (13) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

It is impossible for anyone to follow the commands of God or of Christ in themselves. If they could then it would be self-righteousness and Jesus would not have had to die on the cross to be their Saviour.

Paul says that anyone who tries to follow the Law in their own strength has no interest in Christ and Christ is of no benefit to them. In fact, they are treading Christ and His finished work on the cross underfoot and rejecting the gift of God's mercy and grace toward them.

But, when a person is genuinely converted through God's mercy and grace, through faith in Christ, then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within and writes God's moral law on his or her new heart. Then it is the Holy Spirit who enables the person to develop sanctification and holiness. The enablement to follow God's moral law is also a gift of God and does not come about by self effort.

 

[RexColin]

Local secular law is how the Father works his will on earth.
There are other passages that clarify.

What Does the Bible Say About Local, Secular Government?

Interesting notion that I will certainly look in to when I get around to visiting North Korea. But till then, I will out of respect review your suggestion in context of the ENTIRE Word of God to see if that is true or not. I had not heard this anti-law theology yet, and really thought I had heard them all by now.. All along Hitler was obeying God's Law and had no Idea his secular laws were ushering in the Kingdom of God?! nah,,,,, still scratching my head, lol

 

[RexColin]

It is impossible for anyone to follow the commands of God or of Christ in themselves. If they could then it would be self-righteousness and Jesus would not have had to die on the cross to be their Saviour.

Paul says that anyone who tries to follow the Law in their own strength has no interest in Christ and Christ is of no benefit to them. In fact, they are treading Christ and His finished work on the cross underfoot and rejecting the gift of God's mercy and grace toward them.

But, when a person is genuinely converted through God's mercy and grace, through faith in Christ, then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within and writes God's moral law on his or her new heart. Then it is the Holy Spirit who enables the person to develop sanctification and holiness. The enablement to follow God's moral law is also a gift of God and does not come about by self effort.

Can you please show me where the category "Moral Law" is used in scripture? I can't find that Law anywhere mentioned, i've tried several searches, and nothing comes up on it. James says if you have broken one law, you have broken them all is what I find. So according to James, we have but one Law, not seperate Moral, Ceremonial, Dietary Laws as some claim the bible says yet does not. James 2:10 New International Version For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Can you please show me where the category "Moral Law" is used in scripture? I can't find that Law anywhere mentioned, i've tried several searches, and nothing comes up on it. James says if you have broken one law, you have broken them all is what I find. So according to James, we have but one Law, not seperate Moral, Ceremonial, Dietary Laws as some claim the bible says yet does not. James 2:10 New International Version For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

The Ten Commandments form the basis of God's moral law. There has always been the moral law, and when Moses instituted the Law for the Jews, the ceremonial Law was added, and this was the Law book that provided the rule of law for Israel.

But there is always a moral law and everyone's conscience will tell them the difference between good and evil, although some through constant evil have had their conscience corrupted so that many evil deeds are good to them.

What happens when a person becomes converted to Christ, their conscience is renewed by the Holy Spirit and their view of what is good and what is evil is put back on the right track.

 

[RexColin]

The Ten Commandments form the basis of God's moral law. There has always been the moral law, and when Moses instituted the Law for the Jews, the ceremonial Law was added, and this was the Law book that provided the rule of law for Israel.

But there is always a moral law and everyone's conscience will tell them the difference between good and evil, although some through constant evil have had their conscience corrupted so that many evil deeds are good to them.

What happens when a person becomes converted to Christ, their conscience is renewed by the Holy Spirit and their view of what is good and what is evil is put back on the right track.

During Moses' day, there was no such thing as a "Jew", they did not reference themself as Jews till after exile to Babylon and the Dispersion of the ten tribes of Israel to the Nations... Also, at no point in time has God or will God do away with his Law such as removing ceremonial or dietary aspects of The Law in exchange for a non-bible referenced "Moral" only Laws according to Jesus. That would be doing as the Pharisaic community did in that they added to the Law.

Mat 5:17-19 NASB "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (19) "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I think the creator of the Universe is rather clear that none of the Law is done away with as long as Heaven and Earth are in existence.

But I'm always hearing of this "Moral Law" only clause, and would like to know where that is at in the bible.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

During Moses' day, there was no such thing as a "Jew", they did not reference themself as Jews till after exile to Babylon and the Dispersion of the ten tribes of Israel to the Nations... Also, at no point in time has God or will God do away with his Law such as removing ceremonial or dietary Laws in lieu of Moral only Laws according to Jesus.
Mat 5:17-19 NASB "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (19) "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I think the creator of the Universe is rather clear that none of the Law is done away with as long as Heaven and Earth are in existence.

But I'm always hearing of this "MOral Law" only clause, and would like to know where that is at in the bible.

Well, God's moral law are the laws that He follows Himself. He is not lawless, if He was, He would have no right to impose any standards upon us. This has nothing to do with the Jews and their Law, because by the time Jesus came along, their Law was so corrupted with "add-ons" that the central moral law was obscured.

God's moral law is summed up in one word: "love". This is expressed through the fruit of the Spirit which is the expression of the law that God lives by Himself.

The instruction from God for us is: "Be ye holy as I am holy". He knows that we cannot comply with this in our own strength, so that is why we have the Holy Spirit living inside of us to give us the desire and the ability to increase in holiness day by day, until we are changed into perfect holiness before the Lord when we go to glory.

 

[RexColin]

Well, God's moral law are the laws that He follows Himself. He is not lawless, if He was, He would have no right to impose any standards upon us. This has nothing to do with the Jews and their Law, because by the time Jesus came along, their Law was so corrupted with "add-ons" that the central moral law was obscured.

God's moral law is summed up in one word: "love". This is expressed through the fruit of the Spirit which is the expression of the law that God lives by Himself.

The instruction from God for us is: "Be ye holy as I am holy". He knows that we cannot comply with this in our own strength, so that is why we have the Holy Spirit living inside of us to give us the desire and the ability to increase in holiness day by day, until we are changed into perfect holiness before the Lord when we go to glory.

I wholeheartedly agree they corrupted it as an impossible Law with add-ons. And I agree that The Law is Love as God is Love, but who's definition of Love is to be applied? Humanities or God's definition of Love? And I absolutely agree and live in the Holy Spirit, he is truly Oxygen in all things. Probably symantics with the whole "Moral Law" on my part, but you must admit that God's Law as a whole including dietary, civil, and ceremonial is by nature "moral". Paul says the Law is good if used lawfully, correct? And Jesus says if you LOVE me, you will obey my commands, correct? So according to God/Jesus, the definition of Love is that we obey his commandments, all of them including the decalogue 10 as well, minus the ones that are impossible to observe without a temple? I mean the Holy Spirit that I speak in tongues with is the very one that teaches me how the Law is applied, I don't think it is misleading me in either.

 

[Dave-W]

Rex, if you are questioning how that all works, I would suggest you read “Restoration” by D Thomas Lancaster, available from First Fruits of Zion, FFOZ.org

 

[Hammster]

We should be obedient to the Father as children. Our obedience doesn’t affect our union with Him. That is secure. It does affect our communion with Him, though.

We need to remember that the Father loves us with the exact same love that He has for His Son. That’s why we are assured conformity to Christ.

So we are to be obedient, and when we are not, He lovingly disciplines us.

Amen.

 

[RexColin]

Rex, if you are questioning how that all works, I would suggest you read “Restoration” by D Thomas Lancaster, available from First Fruits of Zion, FFOZ.org

I have. Even bought their DVD studies from few years back. I'm not so much questioning (though always seeking answers) as much as raising the question up to be addressed.. Btw, I see your Derek Prince quote, he mentored my Dad some back in the day during the Shepherding movement, and have been so thrilled to revisit his messages on Youtube recently..

 

[RexColin]

It does affect our communion with Him

Very much agreed, that's and amazing subtle, yet powerful statement.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I wholeheartedly agree they corrupted it as an impossible Law with add-ons. And I agree that The Law is Love as God is Love, but who's definition of Love is to be applied? Humanities or God's definition of Love? And I absolutely agree and live in the Holy Spirit, he is truly Oxygen in all things. Probably symantics with the whole "Moral Law" on my part, but you must admit that God's Law as a whole including dietary, civil, and ceremonial is by nature "moral". Paul says the Law is good if used lawfully, correct? And Jesus says if you LOVE me, you will obey my commands, correct? So according to God/Jesus, the definition of Love is that we obey his commandments, all of them including the decalogue 10 as well, minus the ones that are impossible to observe without a temple? I mean the Holy Spirit that I speak in tongues with is the very one that teaches me how the Law is applied, I don't think it is misleading me in either.

The point I'm making is that if you are observing the commandments to be acceptable to God, ie: be justified, then you are outside of Christ, because if you are living by any sort of law in order to be righteous before God, you are bound to observe the whole law without one single fault - from your youth onward. The Scripture says that those who use the law as their foundation shall live by it, otherwise they will bear the penalty for failing to keep the law.

The purpose of the law is to show us how sinful and hopeless we are in ourselves and that because we have failed to keep the law, we deserve to spend eternity in hell under the continuous wrath of God. This is the law being our tutor to bring us to Christ. Once we received Christ as our Saviour, the Holy Spirit frees us from that law of sin and death and replaces it with Christ's sinless righteousness and the law of spirit and life in Him. This new law is written on our new hearts, and instead of trying to follow a set of external commands, we now follow the prompting of the Spirit in our hearts. In that way, Christ works in us to produce holiness.

 

[RexColin]

The point I'm making is that if you are observing the commandments to be acceptable to God, ie: be justified, then you are outside of Christ, because if you are living by any sort of law in order to be righteous before God, you are bound to observe the whole law without one single fault - from your youth onward. The Scripture says that those who use the law as their foundation shall live by it, otherwise they will bear the penalty for failing to keep the law.

The purpose of the law is to show us how sinful and hopeless we are in ourselves and that because we have failed to keep the law, we deserve to spend eternity in hell under the continuous wrath of God. This is the law being our tutor to bring us to Christ. Once we received Christ as our Saviour, the Holy Spirit frees us from that law of sin and death and replaces it with Christ's sinless righteousness and the law of spirit and life in Him. This new law is written on our new hearts, and instead of trying to follow a set of external commands, we now follow the prompting of the Spirit in our hearts. In that way, Christ works in us to produce holiness.

I don't observe the Law to get saved, I observe the Law to show love to my creator as he created me to live. The Law of sin and death is not the Law btw. That is the Law given to Adam that stated that if you eat of this tree, you shall surely die (hence sin and death). It was the curse Jesus removed from the Cross so that we might have eternal life with him as those whom he calls his people, his bride, Israel, sons.. Breaking the law is the only way the law of sin and death can have any authority, unless God calls you one of his.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We should be obedient to the Father as children. Our obedience doesn’t affect our union with Him. That is secure. It does affect our communion with Him, though.

We need to remember that the Father loves us with the exact same love that He has for His Son. That’s why we are assured conformity to Christ.

So we are to be obedient, and when we are not, He lovingly disciplines us.

Amen.

I think the worst discipline is the loss of our sense of fellowship with Him. When we do stray off from faith in Christ and start to try and do self-righteousness, then God withdraws the sense of His presence with us and we find that we can no longer have the fellowship with Him as before. This causes us to desperately seek God for the reason, confess our lack of trust, and then, when God sees that we mean business with Him again, restores our sense of close fellowship with Him.

I know when I am in close fellowship with Him when I talk to Him and He talks back to me in my heart through the Bible, good preachers, and my devotional reading, also when He confirms my thinking and discussion by bombarding me with relevant verses of Scripture.

Of course, the "easy believers" who have never pressed into God to really know Him on a personal level to have close fellowship with Him, wouldn't know the difference, so they carry on with their religion and wonder why they run out of steam after a while.

 

[sdowney717]

Somehow my post got messed up

You can not keep the Law perfectly, which was the requirement to be accepted under the law, otherwise God considers you a transgressor and guilty of the whole law and so then its curse.
The apostle warned others about forcing gentiles to keep the Law, as did Christ warn the Jews that non of them kept the Law.
So the Law shows that it is impossible for man to keep the Law and is teching us to come to Christ for forgiveness and acceptance, a righteousness apart from the Law.

 

[sdowney717]

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Which is what some people also say today.....

Acts 15:24
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment—
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Romans 2:25
[ Circumcision of No Avail ] For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Galatians 5:3
And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Galatians 6:13
For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.