Are Christians obigated to obey any OT laws?

ClementofA

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Are Christians required to obey any OT laws? Or can we ignore them completely?

"For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)

7But not everyone has this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that they eat such food as if it were sacrificed to an idol.
And since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us closer to God: We are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. 9Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.…
1 Corinthians 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

13 Therefore let us stop judging one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.
Rom. 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15If your brother is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.…

Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure; but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Indeed, both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

Gal.5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Galatians 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 
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I will answer, but I'm not here to argue, and I know folks won't all agree.

The understanding from early Christianity has been that such things as dietary laws, circumcision, etc. are not placed as a rule upon Christians.

However "the Law" ... which can be summed up as loving God and loving others, is part of how we should simply act if we claim to follow Christ - we should not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. As you noted, though, love goes far beyond a simple set of rules.

It is also important to remember though that we are not initially justified by these things. Rather, it is living faith that seeks to follow Christ and results in being transformed into His image and likeness, so we do not do what is evil, by the grace of God.
 
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Tolworth John

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How can someone claim to love God, yet also bedisobeying the ten commandments?

We do not have to follow the dietry laws etc, but if we claim to love Jesus we will be obedient to him and as he said love one another. It is not possible to love one another and to break the 10C.
 
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Uber Genius

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"The Law," has different purposes and meanings that need definition to avoid equivocation or sweeping geralizations. That said we see that the law coupled with humans who have not been I dwelled by the HS, and living by that he power of the HS, is described as powerless!

2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the Law was powerless to doin that it was weakened by the flesh, God didby sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…
Romans 8:2-4

Jesus fulfills the requirements of the law.

We likewise live by the spirit and follow Christ, not by keeping the OT laws but by loving God, and our neighbor the way Christ taught.

Both the Law if followed and Indwelt life of the Christian disciple if one achieves maturity, produce God's righteousness. But no one but Jesus could keep the law!

When the judaizers engage Christians and lead them back to the law in Galatia, Paul calls them, "Foolish," and, "Bewitched," and, "Ignorant." These are not superlatives. Galatians 5:19-23 give a constrast between the flesh and the spirit. We are called to live by the latter. This is not the law but it subsumes the law and does produce God's righteousness just as the law would if anyone had been able to keep it.
 
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TheSeabass

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None of the OT law is binding upon a Christian. In Romans 7:1-4 Paul makes an analogy to the sinfulness of a Christian keeping both the OT law of Moses and Christ's NT law at the same time compared to an adulteress woman married to two husbands at the same time.

The Christian is married to Christ and His NT and not to Moses and his law.
 
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ClementofA

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How can someone claim to love God, yet also bedisobeying the ten commandments?

We do not have to follow the dietry laws etc, but if we claim to love Jesus we will be obedient to him and as he said love one another. It is not possible to love one another and to break the 10C.

I doubt all good Christians keep all 10 commandments, including this:

8“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. (Exodus 20)

What about other OT laws like in Leviticus 18-20?
 
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ClementofA

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None of the OT law is binding upon a Christian. In Romans 7:1-4 Paul makes an analogy to the sinfulness of a Christian keeping both the OT law of Moses and Christ's NT law at the same time compared to an adulteress woman married to two husbands at the same time.

The Christian is married to Christ and His NT and not to Moses and his law.

Is any law binding upon a Christian? Or are all things lawful?

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)
 
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ClementofA

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Anything who speaks against the law and teaches others not to follow them will be considered least in the kingdom of heaven....

What law is this?

The law was given to Israel, not the Gentile nations.

Jesus was sent only to Israel:

"He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

What makes you think Gentiles or Christians are under any obligations to OT laws? Or anything Jesus said in the 4 gospels?
 
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RaymondG

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What law is this?

The law was given to Israel, not the Gentile nations.

Jesus was sent only to Israel:

"He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

What makes you think Gentiles or Christians are under any obligations to OT laws? Or anything Jesus said in the 4 gospels?
What makes me think? All i did was quote a bible verse....all the assumptions you are making tells me that what you believe Jesus assumed when he made this statement. you are judging yourself.
 
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Soyeong

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Are Christians required to obey any OT laws? Or can we ignore them completely?

"For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)

Does it not reflect extremely poorly on your opinion of God if you consider living in obedience to Him to be slavery? Rather, God's Law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45, James 1:25), while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that puts us in bondage.

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)

1 Corinthians 6:12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything

Paul was quoting that position in order to argue against it, not to endorse it. This was a major problem that the Corinthians were having that Paul was writing his letter to them to address. In the verses 9-11, he listed a bunch of things that will someone from inheriting the kingdom of God, so clearly he did not think everything was lawful, but as Acts 21:24 states, he continued to live in obedience to God's Law.

7But not everyone has this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that they eat such food as if it were sacrificed to an idol.
And since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us closer to God: We are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. 9Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.…
1 Corinthians 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1 Corinthians 8:1-3 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.

Paul was describing the views of those who had become puffed up by their knowledge who think they know something, but do not yet know as they ought to know. Whoever loves God will obey His commands, not reject them as being slavery.

13 Therefore let us stop judging one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.
Rom. 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15If your brother is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.…

As stated in Romans 14:1, the topic of the chapter is how to handle disputes of opinion, not whether followers of God should follow God.

Gal.5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Galatians 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Everything listed as fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with what God's Law instructs while everything listed as work of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's Law, which makes sense because the Spirit is God, the Law was given by God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). So what sense does it make to interpret Galatians 5:18 as referring God's Law?
 
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How can someone claim to love God, yet also bedisobeying the ten commandments?

We do not have to follow the dietry laws etc, but if we claim to love Jesus we will be obedient to him and as he said love one another. It is not possible to love one another and to break the 10C.

Jesus was sinless, so even if he had said nothing, he still would have taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus said that whoever loves him will obey his teaching that whoever does not love him will not obey his teaching, and that his teaching his own, but that of the Father (John 14:23-24), so his teaching did not depart from what the Father had commanded Moses, which include more than just the Ten Commandments. Jesus summarized all of the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so not just ten of God's commands are about showing out love to Him.
 
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Soyeong

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"The Law," has different purposes and meanings that need definition to avoid equivocation or sweeping geralizations. That said we see that the law coupled with humans who have not been I dwelled by the HS, and living by that he power of the HS, is described as powerless!

When the judaizers engage Christians and lead them back to the law in Galatia, Paul calls them, "Foolish," and, "Bewitched," and, "Ignorant." These are not superlatives. Galatians 5:19-23 give a constrast between the flesh and the spirit. We are called to live by the latter. This is not the law but it subsumes the law and does produce God's righteousness just as the law would if anyone had been able to keep it.

You made an excellent point about the importance of not equivocating about "the Law" and how it had become coupled with humans who have not been indwelled by the Spirit, but then you proceeded to fall into that error by bringing up Galatians. The issue being brought up in Acts 15:1 is the same issue Paul dealt with in Galatians, so please show me where God's Law required all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved or grant that it is therefore a man-made requirement, which means that the issue in Galatians also in regard to what man has added to God's Law.

2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the Law was powerless to doin that it was weakened by the flesh, God didby sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…
Romans 8:2-4

Jesus fulfills the requirements of the law.

Jesus summarized the Law as being about how to love God and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so if you are saying that Jesus fulfilled the requirement of the law so that we don't have to, then you are essentially saying that he loved God and our neighbor so that we don't have to, but rather he did that in part so that we would have an example to follow, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purity for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works (Titus 2:14, Acts 21:20) and God's Law is His instructions for how to do good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17, Romans 7:12). In other words, we have been set free from sinning in transgression of God's Law so that we can be free to obey it that we might meet its righteous requirement (Romans 6:16-19).

We likewise live by the spirit and follow Christ, not by keeping the OT laws but by loving God, and our neighbor the way Christ taught.

The OT Law instructs us to how to Love God and our neighbor and Jesus was sinless so keeping the OT Law is how he taught to love God and our neighbor.

Both the Law if followed and Indwelt life of the Christian disciple if one achieves maturity, produce God's righteousness. But no one but Jesus could keep the law!

Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23), so the righteousness of the Law is one that comes by faith (Romans 10:5-10, Deuteronomy 30:11-14), and this the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous. God also said in those verses that what He commanded was not too difficult for us, so everyone is perfectly capable of keeping the Law. Every single prophet up to including Jesus came with the message to repent from our sins, so the distinction between someone who is keeping the law and someone who is not is based on whether they continue to practice repentance, not whether they obeyed it perfectly. The Law itself came with commands for what to do when we fail to keep it perfectly, so the idea that we need to obey it perfectly in order to keep it is clearly false.
 
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Soyeong

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What law is this?

The law was given to Israel, not the Gentile nations.

While it is true that the Law was given to Israel, it was never intended only for Israel, but rather Israel was intended to be a light to the other nations to teach them how to serve God and to walk in His ways (Deuteronomy 4:5-8, Isaiah 2:2-3, Isaiah 49:6).

Jesus was sent only to Israel:

"He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

What makes you think Gentiles or Christians are under any obligations to OT laws? Or anything Jesus said in the 4 gospels?

Gentiles don't have to be a follower of Christ if they don't want to be, but they should not claim to be a follower of Christ while refusing to follow him. However, God will judge the world according to His righteous standard regardless of whether the world considers themselves to be obligated to obey His commands. If the people of the nations who perished in the Flood were not obligated to obey God's commands, then He had no grounds by which to judge them. God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good, to cause us to prosper, and to teach us how to walk in His ways (Deuteronomy 6:24, Deuteronomy 8:6), so even if you don't consider yourself to be obligated to obey the God of the universe, does that not following His commands at least sound like a good idea?
 
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Soyeong

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None of the OT law is binding upon a Christian. In Romans 7:1-4 Paul makes an analogy to the sinfulness of a Christian keeping both the OT law of Moses and Christ's NT law at the same time compared to an adulteress woman married to two husbands at the same time.

The Christian is married to Christ and His NT and not to Moses and his law.

In Romans 7:1-4, Paul said he was speaking to those who know the law, which means that they have at least a working knowledge of Deuteronomy 24:1-4, where a man who divorces his wife can't take her back after she has been defiled with another man. With the Mosaic Covenant, God got married to Israel, but in Jeremiah 3:1-14, God gave her a certificate of divorce, yet nevertheless continued to call for her to return to Him, so the the great mystery was how God would work things out so that he could become remarried to her. The only way way for the wife to be free from the adultery that resulted from the law of her husband would be if her husband died, which means that God would have to die. Enter Jesus, who died so that we might be free from the law of our husband that we be free to belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God (Romans 7:4). It is speaking only about the law of her husband, so it is not saying that after the woman's husband died that she become free to commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, or to transgress any of God's other Laws, but rather we have been set free so that we can belong to Christ and bear fruit for God, and there is no bearing fruit for God apart from obedience to His Law by grace through faith.
 
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ClementofA

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Galatians 5: 11 Now, brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those who are agitating you, I wish they would proceed to emasculate themselves! 13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.…

2 Corinthians 3: 6 And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?…9 For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10 Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!…13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.

Romans 7: 9 Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 So I discovered that the very commandmentthat was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.…

Colossians 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

"The Decalogue produces frustrated religious hypocrites who damn other people for not being as moral as them. How moral is it to damn somebody."
 
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Tolworth John

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I doubt all good Christians keep all 10 commandments, including this:

8“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. (Exodus 20)

What about other OT laws like in Leviticus 18-20?
As I said, how can we claim to love Jesus if we disobey him.
 
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Soyeong

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Hello,

You listed a number of verses that you think support the position that we do not have to obey OT Laws and I challenged your interpretation of those verses, so I would appreciate it would interact with what I said about how those verses should be interpreted rather than just going on to new verses that you erroneously think support your position. Your main confusion is that you've listed verses in regard to three different categories of law as though they are all speaking about God's Law.

Galatians 5: 11 Now, brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those who are agitating you, I wish they would proceed to emasculate themselves! 13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.…

The issue that Paul was addressing in Galatians was the same issue that was being address in Acts 15:1, namely whether Gentiles are required to become circumcised in order to become saved, so it is important to determine whether this was something that God's Law actually required or whether it was something that man was teaching that God's Law required. If you can't cite where God's Law required anyone to become circumcised for the specific purpose of becoming saved, then God did not require it it, and it is therefore only a man-made work of law that was rejected by the Jerusalem Council. However, if you can cite where God's required all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, then please explain to me why we should follow what the Jerusalem Council said on instead of what God said on this matter.

According to Isaiah 45:25, all Israel will be saved, so a number of Jews incorrectly thought that meant that Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes in order to become saved, which involved circumcision, and which involved joining the group of people who agreed at Sinai to do everything Moses said (Exodus 20:19, Deuteronomy 5:22-33). Moses had the authority to interpret the Law, but by the 1st century those who who this authority passed down to them were referred to as sitting in Moses' seat and it had become a large body of Jewish oral laws, tradition, rulings, and fences that Jesus referred to as placing a heavy burden on the people. He certainly was not criticizing the Pharisees for instructing the people to obey what God had commanded them to do, but rather these the role of these oral laws were a major source of conflict between Jesus and Pharisees (Matthew 15:1-9), which continued between the followers of Jesus and the Pharisees, which came to a head in Acts 15 and Galatians. So by becoming circumcised, Gentiles were becoming Jewish proselytes and agreeing to live as Jews according to all of their oral laws, and doing that in order to become saved, so that is why becoming circumcised was making what Jesus did of no value and what Paul was rejecting in Galatians.

2 Corinthians 3: 6 And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?…9 For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10 Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!…13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.

In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, it is up front that the Law is a ministry of life and blessing for obedience and ministry of death and cursing for disobedience, so the fact that the Law brings death for disobedience is hardly a good argument for disobedience to it.

Romans 7: 9 Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 So I discovered that the very commandmentthat was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.…

Romans 7:12-13 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.

Paul said that the Law is holy, righteous, and good, and that he did not blame what was good for bringing death, but rather the problem was the law of sin that was producing death through what was good. So the solution to the problem is not to do away with what is good, but to do away with what was hindering us from doing what is good. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not say that Christ gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness, so we have been set free from sin in order to be free to serve God (Romans 6:16-19).

In Romans 7, Paul was comparing and contrasting God's Law with the law of sin. He said that God's Law was not sin, but that it revealed what sin is (7:7), that it is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), that it is the good he sought to do (7:13-20), the good he delighted in doing (7:22), and the good that he served with his mind (7:25), but contrasted that with a law of sin that came about to increase transgressions (5:20), that stirred up sins to bear fruit unto death (7:5), that held him captive (7:6), that gave sin it's power (7:8), that cause him not to do the good that he wanted (7:13-20), that held him captive (7:23), and that he served with his flesh (7:25), so it is important not to mistake Paul speaking against the law of sin as speaking against God's holy, righteous, and good Law.

Colossians 2: 8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Do you really think that Paul was describing those who were teaching obedience to the holy, righteous and good commands of God (Romans 7:12) as teaching empty philosophy and vain deceit according to human tradition? Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the Law, so it wouldn't make any sense to say that follow his example is not according to Christ. Paul described those promoting these elementary principles of the world in Colossians 2:20-23 as promoting human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so he was very clearly speaking against the teachings of men, not those teaching obedience to God.

"The Decalogue produces frustrated religious hypocrites who damn other people for not being as moral as them. How moral is it to damn somebody."

God did not give the Law to damn anyone, but rather He said that what He commanded for his people own good, to prosper us, to bless us, and to teach us how to walk in His ways (Deuteronomy 6:24, Deuteronomy 8:6), so you can either believe what God said is true or you can believe whoever made that quote.
 
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Soyeong

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This is the definitive book on the relationship Christians have with the Mosaic Law: Paul and the Law: Keeping the Commandments of God (New Studies in Biblical Theology): Brian S. Rosner: 9780830826322: Amazon.com: Books

"Paul does three things with the law and each one must be fully heard without prejudicing the others: (1) polemical repudiation; (2) radical replacement; and (3) whole-hearted reappropriation as both prophecy and wisdom."

According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's Law, so do you believe that Paul committed this sin and therefore needed to repent?
 
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