Are Catholic Sacraments/Mysteries Valid?

MarkRohfrietsch

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Nuance is one thing.

Evasion is something else.

Evasion is a very strong word; I think it is more a matter of perspective and perception. As I stated above. What you may be perceiving as evasion, is likely faithful acceptance of mystery.

I get it; Christ, after His resurrection was accepted by 10 of His disciples who just accepted the mystery of His return from the dead without question; St. Thomas, on the other hand was not able to accept the mystery of Christ's rising, but needed physical proof. Christ provided it for him, but then admonished him, and the rest of us; from St. John's Gospel, chapter 20: "29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed."

The fact that Christ did not throw him out teaches us that there is a place for apologetic in the Church, but a place remains for faithful acceptance of divine mystery.

As stated above, I personally believe that the Catholic Church, with it's "scholastic" approach to theology; and despite it's striving to preserve the faith as on some issues taken things a bit too far; of which Transubstantiation is one of them.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Maybe one way to put it so that y'all Catholics might understand it, is that the sacraments only find their completeness in the Orthodox Church. So in general, converts from Christian faiths are received by chrismation, in that chrismation completes anything lacking in their original baptism. Before heading to seminary, my wife and I received an Orthodox wedding, so that our marriage was made complete in an Orthodox setting. If a Catholic priest converts, he may be re-vested as an Orthodox priest rather than ordained from scratch (I found that somewhere on the interwebs but can't find it when I need to).

Maybe another way to use a poor comparison case law vs other types of law. From Wikipedia: "These past decisions are called "case law" , or precedent to the extent that those past decisions are used by future judges to decide future cases. Stare decisis—a Latin phrase meaning “let the decision stand”—is the principle by which judges are bound to such past decisions. These judicial interpretations are distinguished from statutory law, which are codes enacted by legislative bodies, and regulatory law, which are established by executive agencies based on statutes. In some jurisdictions, case law can be applied to ongoing adjudication; for example, criminal proceedings or family law."

Catholic tend to use canon law a LOT, so that everything is dictated by some canon. Although we have canon law and we abide by it, we tend to do things case by case following a methodology of case law. There is one story of a monk who has a glass of wine with his Sunday meal and the rest of the brothers are mortified. The abbot then explains to them that the monk was a former senator and has given up far more than the rest of them ever will. So the conversion experience for one person may be very different from someone else.

This is a picture of my family's reception into the Orthodox Church
 

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zippy2006

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Maybe one way to put it so that y'all Catholics might understand it, is that the sacraments only find their completeness in the Orthodox Church.

I often think that if the Orthodox Church managed to codify its beliefs on such matters, they would look identical to the Catholic explanations, but mirror-opposite. For example, the "subsistit in" clause of Lumen Gentium #8. If Catholics hadn't thought of it first, you Orthodox would think it is a great explanation. ;)
 
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