Islam Are Allah and God of the Bible the same Person?

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Muslims, Jews and Christians agree in the worshipping of one God or monotheism. Jews and Muslims do not accept the deity of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. While this is fundamental basis for the Christian faith, however the topic is direct at what is God verse what is Allah in respect of Muslim and Christian faith texts rather than the who is God or Allah.

Muslims and Christians view Jesus Christ as the Son of God as well as the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity in vastly different light and needs to be discussed in order to obtain a true picture in the light of making the best decision for each person individual status in Paradise. Yet I feel including this in this discussion would not justify the vast subject matter already proposed moves to the Who and not the What, that needs to be addressed first in order to understand the Who. Thus with respect the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Holy trinity can be discussed separately.

Islam requires all to submit to Allah according to the prescripts in Muhammad’s revelation called the Quran. Allah is the lord of the Kaaba ( The big black square structure Muslim pilgrims to Mecca walk around seven times and kiss the black meteorite stone) and god of the city of Mecca and Allah alone may be worshipped.

This statement of Islamic tradition is filled with problems for me as a Christian, however in fairness to Islam, Christianity does agree with Muslims that both Gods and Allah are viewed as eternal and self-sustaining, who created all things, seen and unseen. His essence is self evident in creation, He hold us accountable for our deeds or sins, who amazes those who have hardened hearts to the errors of there ways, His attributes include among others, compassion, mercy and justice and who does not depend on man and has no need for anything.

The Quran says in Surah 29:46 the God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Quran, further there are a number of Suarah’s that call Muslims to respect the books (Bible) set down before the Quran. (Surah 5:36-38, 35:31, 3:3, 12:111, 29:46, 10:37, 5:66, 2:113, 3:78-79, 16:43, 5:68, 9:30, 10:94 are some of the key passages.) Yet there is little if no peace between the two faiths.

Logic tells us there can only be one truth and since both Muslims and Christian believe in the hereafter, a life of eternity with God or Allah, it is important we make the correct choice as both faith agree submitting to a false god is as good as a first class ticket to hell. In the same manner giving godly attributes to a false god wins us no favor with God. This is seen in Exodus 32:4-5 when the Israelites fashioned and worshipped a golden calf. The Quran supports idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116) and there are other common grounds but let’s get to the discussion at hand.

As a Christian I believe that the God of the Bible is the One True God, below is my reason for believing this and thank you in advance for your consideration and look forward to your comments.

  • What is God? God is Love. 1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. This passage forms the basis of my premise and my view of God. In understanding the Love of God I believe on has no other option as to accept the Biblical God as the One true God.
  • What is Allah? In Arabic the word is a combination of “al” and “ilah” which means “the god”. Yet as Surah 30:30 says - Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by ALLAH. Such creation of ALLAH will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know. say there can be only one god.
By examining What is Allah from the perspective of Islamic tradition and the Quran I will draw on you to consider a number of questions and leave you to make your own conclusion.

A. Origin.
Islamic source show that Allah was one of many pagan gods in Mecca prior to Muhammad’s revelations of the Quran that were worshiped at the Kaaba (The Kaaba is the square structure in Mecca Muslim pilgrims walk around seven time and kiss the black meteorite stone, which is reminiscent and remains from this period) Not must be made that three goddess were taken as daughter of Allah and worshiped as intercessors, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manant. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.)

Muhammad himself seemed reluctant to use the name Allah exclusively as it seldom used early Sunah’s. however after migration the qibla (direction of prayer) was change from facing Jerusalem to Mecca did Allah become the unmistakable identity of the Islamic god.

Idolatry from a Christian perspective is a no no and is made clear as the second commandment. Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

The God of the Bible is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it. To prove the origin of god is beyond human comprehension and if this could be done would pose the question of why do humans need any god. God is simply the I Am who is there and offers us His love as a true Father love his children. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.


Question:- your choice a god refined from pagan worship with all the associated baggage or the God of Love that has existed before time and offers you the in-comprehendible love of a Father.


B. There are many differences:-

a. Names of God. Both the bible and the Quran use multiple names for god. The most important one in the bible is YHVH in Hebrew translated as Jehovah. This name is mentioned in some 6,521 time in the Bible, a book written of 1300 years of continued prophecies.

The Quran revealed in a mere 23 years has 99 diferent names for Allah, yet not one of them is YHVH or Jehovah.


Question: if our Gods are one and the same why is the most important name for God nowhere to be found in the Quran.


b. Plural verses Singular. The Hebrew word for God is also “elohim” the im at the end shows it is a plural and is used approximately 2,500 times in the Bible.

Allah is singular and again raises the question if the Quran teach revelations sent down before it are true why the inconsistency?

c. The God of the City. The god of the bible is inextricably linked to the city of Jerusalem. Until such time as Jesus Christ facilitates universal access directly to God. (Deuteronomy 12:5-7 and John4:21-24)

With reference to the Quran Surah 27:91 - [Say, O Muhammad], "I have only been commanded to worship the Lord of this city, who made it sacred and to whom [belongs] all things. And I am commanded to be of the Muslims [those who submit to Allah ]


The Question is since Christ crucifixion and the out pouring of the Holy Spirit Christian have direct access to Gods throne room and thus no longer require a temple to worship God. Why would God now change his mind and go back to temple worship? Not to mention this new temple is not even in the land of the Jews Gods promised people so how would recondition and forgiveness of sins occur?

d. Ultimate Revelation. Both Islam and Christianity agree and believe God has revealed himself many times through history. They also agree that it all concludes in a final revelation. According to Islam this is revealed as a book the Quran through Muhammad. According to the bible and its prophecies it is God Himself. The God of the bible is personal and relational (Genesis 3:8-9 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”)


God of the bible is inseparable in His final revelation and seek our love and worship through relationship in eternity. This is not so with the god of Islam, his final revelation is a book of this world and not eternity.

e. Purpose in Creation. The Quran teaches we are created to be no more than slaves to Allah. (Surah 52:56 And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. Surah 19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.)

The God of the Bible created us to become his Chrildren. The revelation of God the Father is not only absent from the Quran it is expressly reject by Islam. An it is in this revelation, A God of Love, the love of a Father to be enjoyed in eternity and not life filled fear and uncertainty with the stark prospect to be an eternal servant that requires the Islamic faith to consider.


C. The All Knowing God.
The omniscience of God of the bible is proved from foreknowledge. Much of the bible prophecies concerns events in the future, the fact these were spoken in advance is proof that God is all knowing. Isaiah spoke of Jesus atoning death seven hundred year before the event. See Isaiah 53. Daniel Jesus coming, His rejection and the destruction of the Temple. See Daniel 9. Jeses prepared His disciples by speaking of His death ahead of time. See Mathew 16:21
The god of the Quran deals with events after they happen. When Muhammad exceeded his quota of wives. Surah 4:3 namely four, only then was Surah 33:50 revealed, after the event. When Muhammad permitted his adopted son to divorce his newlywed wife so the he could marry her, the revelation of Surah 33;37 came after the event. When Muhammad broke his oath concerning Mary the copt an opportune revelation came after the event permitting him to break his oath.

Surly it would be more credible if these extraordinary events had been foreseen and condoned ahead of time.


D. All Powerful.
Both the Quran and the God of the bible make this claim to be omnipotent. However Islam has a different understanding as what this power is and how it is to be used. Islam understands “all powerful” as being unlimited by any quality of god. Islam goes beyond the belief that nothing is impossible for God or to difficult. Surah 76:1-4 to a belief that there is nothing he is tied to perform, nor can any injustice be supposed in him or be under any obligation to any person what so ever. Al-Ggazzali, Gerhard Nehls, p22

Allah is not bound to tell the truth, not keep his promises. He can do what he has promised not to do, and refrain from doing what he has promised to do. He can change his mind any time (as implied by Surah 13:39) He can revoke the Quran or part of it and replace it with something else (Surah 17:89). He can condemn to hell those who have faithfully obeyed him, and admit to paradise those who have persistently disobeyed him Mitshakatul Masabih, vol 3, page 761)

Compared to the God of the Bible who is eternally true to Himself, who dose not exercise power randomly or unpredictably, but keeping with his own character. He does not change (Malachi 3:6) and in Him is no shadow of turning, the same today, yesterday and tomorrow 9Hebrews 13:8). The biblical sense of “all powerful” includes the power to surrender sovereignty (Genesis 1:26-28, Psalm 8:5-8) and to bind Himself in covenant relationship with those who remain faithful. All powerful to god of the bible means He that God will not act against His own nature. (2 timothy 2:12)


E. Allah wills all things.
The Islamic concept of Allah’s power leaves no room for the responsibility and free will of man. Surah 9:51 and Surah 57:22. This has dramatic implications in respect of human suffering it is because Allah has willed it. With regard to salvation we have no control as Allah has willed it. With regards to sin and human accountability Allah has expressly willed it.

How it this compared to the God of the Bible. Man has been given authority over the earth and is held fully responsible for all the misery that has result from our poor choices in been disobedient to God. Gods will is not disobedience but freedom. Freedom is a precondition of Love and since God is Love , and he has created us in His image (Geneses 1: ) with the capacity to love and for a relationship based on love. By making us free to chose God created the potential for sin. Thus sin is the price god pays for our freedom to love him.

Despite the consequences of mans rebellion, God continues in all things to work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose (Romans 8) The harmony between creature and perfection is only possible in a condition of perfect unity between God and man. Sin disturbs this relationship. God’s redemptive work though out history is designed to deal with sin absolutely and restore man to Himself.


F. Merciful and Just
A phrase use 113 times in the Quran is “most merciful and most compassionate” besides been merciful and compassionate Allah is also just. (tract entitled “The Concept of god in Islam”, published by the Islamic Propagation Center International, Durban south Africa, undated)

a. If I asked how many sins should I forgive to be most merciful, I am sure you will agree all of them or 100%. Is Allah rightly described as most merciful when there are many sins he does not forgive

How many sins must I forgive to be absolutely just? Surly 1% is too many. You see the problem to be merciful you must be able to forgive but to be just you must receive exactly what you deserve that means justice and mercy are on too different end of the scale and cannot be measured out without the expenses of the other. Islam dose not a solution to this imbalance.

However the God of the bible promises that he will forgive your sins 100%, in fact every persona sin in the world. Jesus has become the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). You see the debit of our sin has been paid on the cross, and it is only on the cross mercy and justice coexist as absolutes within a single godhead. This is the basis for Christian monotheism expressed as the love of the father will to sacrifice His son for his creation. Foreseen in the sacrifice in Genesis 21 of Abraham and Isaac and proclaimed in John 3:16.

b. If every instance of misery and suffering is expressly willed and decreed by Allah how does this make him compassionate? Thus if every sin is by the predetermined will of Allah then no one is responsible and thus no need for mercy. For the same reason if sin is ordained by Allah there is no need for Allah to forgive for committing those sins except himself.

c. The day to day application of sharia (Islamic law) does not bear out any of the claims of Allah’s nature. Punishment is only just when metered out fairly and equally. Arbitrary disproportionate punishment proves injustice rather than justice. Cutting off hands and feet for minor offence like theft compared with random forgiveness of major transgressions is injustice not justice. The Quran promises eternal damnation and humiliating punishment for apparently minor crimes like annoying the prophet (Surah 33:35), while at the same time legitimizing systematic rape of women captured in war (Surah 4:24).


In summary The God of the Bible is Love and desires a relationship with his children. While the god of the Quran is unpredictable, is the author of all misery and pain, and has created mankind to be slaves and servants and has predetermined you fate in paradise, by removing your free will.

Regards Doug
 
  • Useful
Reactions: mindlight

Truth light

Newbie
Oct 20, 2010
134
12
✟19,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,196
19,053
44
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,503,521.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a clean. Please stay on topic and post courteously.

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0

EliaHarr

Member
Dec 26, 2016
14
1
27
Algeria
✟7,610.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Muslims, Jews and Christians agree in the worshipping of one God or monotheism. Jews and Muslims do not accept the deity of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. While this is fundamental basis for the Christian faith, however the topic is direct at what is God verse what is Allah in respect of Muslim and Christian faith texts rather than the who is God or Allah.

Muslims and Christians view Jesus Christ as the Son of God as well as the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity in vastly different light and needs to be discussed in order to obtain a true picture in the light of making the best decision for each person individual status in Paradise. Yet I feel including this in this discussion would not justify the vast subject matter already proposed moves to the Who and not the What, that needs to be addressed first in order to understand the Who. Thus with respect the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Holy trinity can be discussed separately.

Islam requires all to submit to Allah according to the prescripts in Muhammad’s revelation called the Quran. Allah is the lord of the Kaaba ( The big black square structure Muslim pilgrims to Mecca walk around seven times and kiss the black meteorite stone) and god of the city of Mecca and Allah alone may be worshipped.

This statement of Islamic tradition is filled with problems for me as a Christian, however in fairness to Islam, Christianity does agree with Muslims that both Gods and Allah are viewed as eternal and self-sustaining, who created all things, seen and unseen. His essence is self evident in creation, He hold us accountable for our deeds or sins, who amazes those who have hardened hearts to the errors of there ways, His attributes include among others, compassion, mercy and justice and who does not depend on man and has no need for anything.

The Quran says in Surah 29:46 the God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Quran, further there are a number of Suarah’s that call Muslims to respect the books (Bible) set down before the Quran. (Surah 5:36-38, 35:31, 3:3, 12:111, 29:46, 10:37, 5:66, 2:113, 3:78-79, 16:43, 5:68, 9:30, 10:94 are some of the key passages.) Yet there is little if no peace between the two faiths.

Logic tells us there can only be one truth and since both Muslims and Christian believe in the hereafter, a life of eternity with God or Allah, it is important we make the correct choice as both faith agree submitting to a false god is as good as a first class ticket to hell. In the same manner giving godly attributes to a false god wins us no favor with God. This is seen in Exodus 32:4-5 when the Israelites fashioned and worshipped a golden calf. The Quran supports idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116) and there are other common grounds but let’s get to the discussion at hand.

As a Christian I believe that the God of the Bible is the One True God, below is my reason for believing this and thank you in advance for your consideration and look forward to your comments.

  • What is God? God is Love. 1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. This passage forms the basis of my premise and my view of God. In understanding the Love of God I believe on has no other option as to accept the Biblical God as the One true God.
  • What is Allah? In Arabic the word is a combination of “al” and “ilah” which means “the god”. Yet as Surah 30:30 says - Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by ALLAH. Such creation of ALLAH will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know. say there can be only one god.
By examining What is Allah from the perspective of Islamic tradition and the Quran I will draw on you to consider a number of questions and leave you to make your own conclusion.

A. Origin.
Islamic source show that Allah was one of many pagan gods in Mecca prior to Muhammad’s revelations of the Quran that were worshiped at the Kaaba (The Kaaba is the square structure in Mecca Muslim pilgrims walk around seven time and kiss the black meteorite stone, which is reminiscent and remains from this period) Not must be made that three goddess were taken as daughter of Allah and worshiped as intercessors, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manant. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.)

Muhammad himself seemed reluctant to use the name Allah exclusively as it seldom used early Sunah’s. however after migration the qibla (direction of prayer) was change from facing Jerusalem to Mecca did Allah become the unmistakable identity of the Islamic god.

Idolatry from a Christian perspective is a no no and is made clear as the second commandment. Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

The God of the Bible is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it. To prove the origin of god is beyond human comprehension and if this could be done would pose the question of why do humans need any god. God is simply the I Am who is there and offers us His love as a true Father love his children. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.


Question:- your choice a god refined from pagan worship with all the associated baggage or the God of Love that has existed before time and offers you the in-comprehendible love of a Father.


B. There are many differences:-

a. Names of God. Both the bible and the Quran use multiple names for god. The most important one in the bible is YHVH in Hebrew translated as Jehovah. This name is mentioned in some 6,521 time in the Bible, a book written of 1300 years of continued prophecies.

The Quran revealed in a mere 23 years has 99 diferent names for Allah, yet not one of them is YHVH or Jehovah.


Question: if our Gods are one and the same why is the most important name for God nowhere to be found in the Quran.


b. Plural verses Singular. The Hebrew word for God is also “elohim” the im at the end shows it is a plural and is used approximately 2,500 times in the Bible.

Allah is singular and again raises the question if the Quran teach revelations sent down before it are true why the inconsistency?

c. The God of the City. The god of the bible is inextricably linked to the city of Jerusalem. Until such time as Jesus Christ facilitates universal access directly to God. (Deuteronomy 12:5-7 and John4:21-24)

With reference to the Quran Surah 27:91 - [Say, O Muhammad], "I have only been commanded to worship the Lord of this city, who made it sacred and to whom [belongs] all things. And I am commanded to be of the Muslims [those who submit to Allah ]


The Question is since Christ crucifixion and the out pouring of the Holy Spirit Christian have direct access to Gods throne room and thus no longer require a temple to worship God. Why would God now change his mind and go back to temple worship? Not to mention this new temple is not even in the land of the Jews Gods promised people so how would recondition and forgiveness of sins occur?

d. Ultimate Revelation. Both Islam and Christianity agree and believe God has revealed himself many times through history. They also agree that it all concludes in a final revelation. According to Islam this is revealed as a book the Quran through Muhammad. According to the bible and its prophecies it is God Himself. The God of the bible is personal and relational (Genesis 3:8-9 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”)


God of the bible is inseparable in His final revelation and seek our love and worship through relationship in eternity. This is not so with the god of Islam, his final revelation is a book of this world and not eternity.

e. Purpose in Creation. The Quran teaches we are created to be no more than slaves to Allah. (Surah 52:56 And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. Surah 19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.)

The God of the Bible created us to become his Chrildren. The revelation of God the Father is not only absent from the Quran it is expressly reject by Islam. An it is in this revelation, A God of Love, the love of a Father to be enjoyed in eternity and not life filled fear and uncertainty with the stark prospect to be an eternal servant that requires the Islamic faith to consider.


C. The All Knowing God.
The omniscience of God of the bible is proved from foreknowledge. Much of the bible prophecies concerns events in the future, the fact these were spoken in advance is proof that God is all knowing. Isaiah spoke of Jesus atoning death seven hundred year before the event. See Isaiah 53. Daniel Jesus coming, His rejection and the destruction of the Temple. See Daniel 9. Jeses prepared His disciples by speaking of His death ahead of time. See Mathew 16:21
The god of the Quran deals with events after they happen. When Muhammad exceeded his quota of wives. Surah 4:3 namely four, only then was Surah 33:50 revealed, after the event. When Muhammad permitted his adopted son to divorce his newlywed wife so the he could marry her, the revelation of Surah 33;37 came after the event. When Muhammad broke his oath concerning Mary the copt an opportune revelation came after the event permitting him to break his oath.

Surly it would be more credible if these extraordinary events had been foreseen and condoned ahead of time.


D. All Powerful.
Both the Quran and the God of the bible make this claim to be omnipotent. However Islam has a different understanding as what this power is and how it is to be used. Islam understands “all powerful” as being unlimited by any quality of god. Islam goes beyond the belief that nothing is impossible for God or to difficult. Surah 76:1-4 to a belief that there is nothing he is tied to perform, nor can any injustice be supposed in him or be under any obligation to any person what so ever. Al-Ggazzali, Gerhard Nehls, p22

Allah is not bound to tell the truth, not keep his promises. He can do what he has promised not to do, and refrain from doing what he has promised to do. He can change his mind any time (as implied by Surah 13:39) He can revoke the Quran or part of it and replace it with something else (Surah 17:89). He can condemn to hell those who have faithfully obeyed him, and admit to paradise those who have persistently disobeyed him Mitshakatul Masabih, vol 3, page 761)

Compared to the God of the Bible who is eternally true to Himself, who dose not exercise power randomly or unpredictably, but keeping with his own character. He does not change (Malachi 3:6) and in Him is no shadow of turning, the same today, yesterday and tomorrow 9Hebrews 13:8). The biblical sense of “all powerful” includes the power to surrender sovereignty (Genesis 1:26-28, Psalm 8:5-8) and to bind Himself in covenant relationship with those who remain faithful. All powerful to god of the bible means He that God will not act against His own nature. (2 timothy 2:12)


E. Allah wills all things.
The Islamic concept of Allah’s power leaves no room for the responsibility and free will of man. Surah 9:51 and Surah 57:22. This has dramatic implications in respect of human suffering it is because Allah has willed it. With regard to salvation we have no control as Allah has willed it. With regards to sin and human accountability Allah has expressly willed it.

How it this compared to the God of the Bible. Man has been given authority over the earth and is held fully responsible for all the misery that has result from our poor choices in been disobedient to God. Gods will is not disobedience but freedom. Freedom is a precondition of Love and since God is Love , and he has created us in His image (Geneses 1: ) with the capacity to love and for a relationship based on love. By making us free to chose God created the potential for sin. Thus sin is the price god pays for our freedom to love him.

Despite the consequences of mans rebellion, God continues in all things to work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose (Romans 8) The harmony between creature and perfection is only possible in a condition of perfect unity between God and man. Sin disturbs this relationship. God’s redemptive work though out history is designed to deal with sin absolutely and restore man to Himself.


F. Merciful and Just
A phrase use 113 times in the Quran is “most merciful and most compassionate” besides been merciful and compassionate Allah is also just. (tract entitled “The Concept of god in Islam”, published by the Islamic Propagation Center International, Durban south Africa, undated)

a. If I asked how many sins should I forgive to be most merciful, I am sure you will agree all of them or 100%. Is Allah rightly described as most merciful when there are many sins he does not forgive

How many sins must I forgive to be absolutely just? Surly 1% is too many. You see the problem to be merciful you must be able to forgive but to be just you must receive exactly what you deserve that means justice and mercy are on too different end of the scale and cannot be measured out without the expenses of the other. Islam dose not a solution to this imbalance.

However the God of the bible promises that he will forgive your sins 100%, in fact every persona sin in the world. Jesus has become the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). You see the debit of our sin has been paid on the cross, and it is only on the cross mercy and justice coexist as absolutes within a single godhead. This is the basis for Christian monotheism expressed as the love of the father will to sacrifice His son for his creation. Foreseen in the sacrifice in Genesis 21 of Abraham and Isaac and proclaimed in John 3:16.

b. If every instance of misery and suffering is expressly willed and decreed by Allah how does this make him compassionate? Thus if every sin is by the predetermined will of Allah then no one is responsible and thus no need for mercy. For the same reason if sin is ordained by Allah there is no need for Allah to forgive for committing those sins except himself.

c. The day to day application of sharia (Islamic law) does not bear out any of the claims of Allah’s nature. Punishment is only just when metered out fairly and equally. Arbitrary disproportionate punishment proves injustice rather than justice. Cutting off hands and feet for minor offence like theft compared with random forgiveness of major transgressions is injustice not justice. The Quran promises eternal damnation and humiliating punishment for apparently minor crimes like annoying the prophet (Surah 33:35), while at the same time legitimizing systematic rape of women captured in war (Surah 4:24).


In summary The God of the Bible is Love and desires a relationship with his children. While the god of the Quran is unpredictable, is the author of all misery and pain, and has created mankind to be slaves and servants and has predetermined you fate in paradise, by removing your free will.

Regards Doug
We Muslims believe that Allah is the one and only God and Jesus is one of his prophets just like Moses and Jacob and Abraham and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them).
 
Upvote 0

Kiterius

CF's Favorite Member
Dec 24, 2016
1,268
826
Earth
✟32,893.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
A book I really enjoyed reading was Miroslav Volf's, "Allah: A Christian Response." In this challenging book, the author presents well the argument that the God of Islam is the same God as that of Christianity - in terms of political theology. His argument is based on the precept that the vast majority of Muslims and Christians just want to live peaceful lives dedicated to loving their God, and their neighbors.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,794
114,490
✟1,342,946.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
We Muslims believe that Allah is the one and only God and Jesus is one of his prophets just like Moses and Jacob and Abraham and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them).

Thus why El Elyon, the Most High God, the living God of Israel, the God of the Bible is not Allah.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,368
7,745
Canada
✟722,024.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Muslims, Jews and Christians agree in the worshipping of one God or monotheism. Jews and Muslims do not accept the deity of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. While this is fundamental basis for the Christian faith, however the topic is direct at what is God verse what is Allah in respect of Muslim and Christian faith texts rather than the who is God or Allah.

Muslims and Christians view Jesus Christ as the Son of God as well as the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity in vastly different light and needs to be discussed in order to obtain a true picture in the light of making the best decision for each person individual status in Paradise. Yet I feel including this in this discussion would not justify the vast subject matter already proposed moves to the Who and not the What, that needs to be addressed first in order to understand the Who. Thus with respect the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Holy trinity can be discussed separately.

Islam requires all to submit to Allah according to the prescripts in Muhammad’s revelation called the Quran. Allah is the lord of the Kaaba ( The big black square structure Muslim pilgrims to Mecca walk around seven times and kiss the black meteorite stone) and god of the city of Mecca and Allah alone may be worshipped.

This statement of Islamic tradition is filled with problems for me as a Christian, however in fairness to Islam, Christianity does agree with Muslims that both Gods and Allah are viewed as eternal and self-sustaining, who created all things, seen and unseen. His essence is self evident in creation, He hold us accountable for our deeds or sins, who amazes those who have hardened hearts to the errors of there ways, His attributes include among others, compassion, mercy and justice and who does not depend on man and has no need for anything.

The Quran says in Surah 29:46 the God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Quran, further there are a number of Suarah’s that call Muslims to respect the books (Bible) set down before the Quran. (Surah 5:36-38, 35:31, 3:3, 12:111, 29:46, 10:37, 5:66, 2:113, 3:78-79, 16:43, 5:68, 9:30, 10:94 are some of the key passages.) Yet there is little if no peace between the two faiths.

Logic tells us there can only be one truth and since both Muslims and Christian believe in the hereafter, a life of eternity with God or Allah, it is important we make the correct choice as both faith agree submitting to a false god is as good as a first class ticket to hell. In the same manner giving godly attributes to a false god wins us no favor with God. This is seen in Exodus 32:4-5 when the Israelites fashioned and worshipped a golden calf. The Quran supports idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116) and there are other common grounds but let’s get to the discussion at hand.

As a Christian I believe that the God of the Bible is the One True God, below is my reason for believing this and thank you in advance for your consideration and look forward to your comments.

  • What is God? God is Love. 1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. This passage forms the basis of my premise and my view of God. In understanding the Love of God I believe on has no other option as to accept the Biblical God as the One true God.
  • What is Allah? In Arabic the word is a combination of “al” and “ilah” which means “the god”. Yet as Surah 30:30 says - Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by ALLAH. Such creation of ALLAH will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know. say there can be only one god.
By examining What is Allah from the perspective of Islamic tradition and the Quran I will draw on you to consider a number of questions and leave you to make your own conclusion.

A. Origin.
Islamic source show that Allah was one of many pagan gods in Mecca prior to Muhammad’s revelations of the Quran that were worshiped at the Kaaba (The Kaaba is the square structure in Mecca Muslim pilgrims walk around seven time and kiss the black meteorite stone, which is reminiscent and remains from this period) Not must be made that three goddess were taken as daughter of Allah and worshiped as intercessors, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manant. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.)

Muhammad himself seemed reluctant to use the name Allah exclusively as it seldom used early Sunah’s. however after migration the qibla (direction of prayer) was change from facing Jerusalem to Mecca did Allah become the unmistakable identity of the Islamic god.

Idolatry from a Christian perspective is a no no and is made clear as the second commandment. Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

The God of the Bible is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it. To prove the origin of god is beyond human comprehension and if this could be done would pose the question of why do humans need any god. God is simply the I Am who is there and offers us His love as a true Father love his children. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.


Question:- your choice a god refined from pagan worship with all the associated baggage or the God of Love that has existed before time and offers you the in-comprehendible love of a Father.


B. There are many differences:-

a. Names of God. Both the bible and the Quran use multiple names for god. The most important one in the bible is YHVH in Hebrew translated as Jehovah. This name is mentioned in some 6,521 time in the Bible, a book written of 1300 years of continued prophecies.

The Quran revealed in a mere 23 years has 99 diferent names for Allah, yet not one of them is YHVH or Jehovah.


Question: if our Gods are one and the same why is the most important name for God nowhere to be found in the Quran.


b. Plural verses Singular. The Hebrew word for God is also “elohim” the im at the end shows it is a plural and is used approximately 2,500 times in the Bible.

Allah is singular and again raises the question if the Quran teach revelations sent down before it are true why the inconsistency?

c. The God of the City. The god of the bible is inextricably linked to the city of Jerusalem. Until such time as Jesus Christ facilitates universal access directly to God. (Deuteronomy 12:5-7 and John4:21-24)

With reference to the Quran Surah 27:91 - [Say, O Muhammad], "I have only been commanded to worship the Lord of this city, who made it sacred and to whom [belongs] all things. And I am commanded to be of the Muslims [those who submit to Allah ]


The Question is since Christ crucifixion and the out pouring of the Holy Spirit Christian have direct access to Gods throne room and thus no longer require a temple to worship God. Why would God now change his mind and go back to temple worship? Not to mention this new temple is not even in the land of the Jews Gods promised people so how would recondition and forgiveness of sins occur?

d. Ultimate Revelation. Both Islam and Christianity agree and believe God has revealed himself many times through history. They also agree that it all concludes in a final revelation. According to Islam this is revealed as a book the Quran through Muhammad. According to the bible and its prophecies it is God Himself. The God of the bible is personal and relational (Genesis 3:8-9 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool[c] of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?”)


God of the bible is inseparable in His final revelation and seek our love and worship through relationship in eternity. This is not so with the god of Islam, his final revelation is a book of this world and not eternity.

e. Purpose in Creation. The Quran teaches we are created to be no more than slaves to Allah. (Surah 52:56 And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. Surah 19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.)

The God of the Bible created us to become his Chrildren. The revelation of God the Father is not only absent from the Quran it is expressly reject by Islam. An it is in this revelation, A God of Love, the love of a Father to be enjoyed in eternity and not life filled fear and uncertainty with the stark prospect to be an eternal servant that requires the Islamic faith to consider.


C. The All Knowing God.
The omniscience of God of the bible is proved from foreknowledge. Much of the bible prophecies concerns events in the future, the fact these were spoken in advance is proof that God is all knowing. Isaiah spoke of Jesus atoning death seven hundred year before the event. See Isaiah 53. Daniel Jesus coming, His rejection and the destruction of the Temple. See Daniel 9. Jeses prepared His disciples by speaking of His death ahead of time. See Mathew 16:21
The god of the Quran deals with events after they happen. When Muhammad exceeded his quota of wives. Surah 4:3 namely four, only then was Surah 33:50 revealed, after the event. When Muhammad permitted his adopted son to divorce his newlywed wife so the he could marry her, the revelation of Surah 33;37 came after the event. When Muhammad broke his oath concerning Mary the copt an opportune revelation came after the event permitting him to break his oath.

Surly it would be more credible if these extraordinary events had been foreseen and condoned ahead of time.


D. All Powerful.
Both the Quran and the God of the bible make this claim to be omnipotent. However Islam has a different understanding as what this power is and how it is to be used. Islam understands “all powerful” as being unlimited by any quality of god. Islam goes beyond the belief that nothing is impossible for God or to difficult. Surah 76:1-4 to a belief that there is nothing he is tied to perform, nor can any injustice be supposed in him or be under any obligation to any person what so ever. Al-Ggazzali, Gerhard Nehls, p22

Allah is not bound to tell the truth, not keep his promises. He can do what he has promised not to do, and refrain from doing what he has promised to do. He can change his mind any time (as implied by Surah 13:39) He can revoke the Quran or part of it and replace it with something else (Surah 17:89). He can condemn to hell those who have faithfully obeyed him, and admit to paradise those who have persistently disobeyed him Mitshakatul Masabih, vol 3, page 761)

Compared to the God of the Bible who is eternally true to Himself, who dose not exercise power randomly or unpredictably, but keeping with his own character. He does not change (Malachi 3:6) and in Him is no shadow of turning, the same today, yesterday and tomorrow 9Hebrews 13:8). The biblical sense of “all powerful” includes the power to surrender sovereignty (Genesis 1:26-28, Psalm 8:5-8) and to bind Himself in covenant relationship with those who remain faithful. All powerful to god of the bible means He that God will not act against His own nature. (2 timothy 2:12)


E. Allah wills all things.
The Islamic concept of Allah’s power leaves no room for the responsibility and free will of man. Surah 9:51 and Surah 57:22. This has dramatic implications in respect of human suffering it is because Allah has willed it. With regard to salvation we have no control as Allah has willed it. With regards to sin and human accountability Allah has expressly willed it.

How it this compared to the God of the Bible. Man has been given authority over the earth and is held fully responsible for all the misery that has result from our poor choices in been disobedient to God. Gods will is not disobedience but freedom. Freedom is a precondition of Love and since God is Love , and he has created us in His image (Geneses 1: ) with the capacity to love and for a relationship based on love. By making us free to chose God created the potential for sin. Thus sin is the price god pays for our freedom to love him.

Despite the consequences of mans rebellion, God continues in all things to work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose (Romans 8) The harmony between creature and perfection is only possible in a condition of perfect unity between God and man. Sin disturbs this relationship. God’s redemptive work though out history is designed to deal with sin absolutely and restore man to Himself.


F. Merciful and Just
A phrase use 113 times in the Quran is “most merciful and most compassionate” besides been merciful and compassionate Allah is also just. (tract entitled “The Concept of god in Islam”, published by the Islamic Propagation Center International, Durban south Africa, undated)

a. If I asked how many sins should I forgive to be most merciful, I am sure you will agree all of them or 100%. Is Allah rightly described as most merciful when there are many sins he does not forgive

How many sins must I forgive to be absolutely just? Surly 1% is too many. You see the problem to be merciful you must be able to forgive but to be just you must receive exactly what you deserve that means justice and mercy are on too different end of the scale and cannot be measured out without the expenses of the other. Islam dose not a solution to this imbalance.

However the God of the bible promises that he will forgive your sins 100%, in fact every persona sin in the world. Jesus has become the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). You see the debit of our sin has been paid on the cross, and it is only on the cross mercy and justice coexist as absolutes within a single godhead. This is the basis for Christian monotheism expressed as the love of the father will to sacrifice His son for his creation. Foreseen in the sacrifice in Genesis 21 of Abraham and Isaac and proclaimed in John 3:16.

b. If every instance of misery and suffering is expressly willed and decreed by Allah how does this make him compassionate? Thus if every sin is by the predetermined will of Allah then no one is responsible and thus no need for mercy. For the same reason if sin is ordained by Allah there is no need for Allah to forgive for committing those sins except himself.

c. The day to day application of sharia (Islamic law) does not bear out any of the claims of Allah’s nature. Punishment is only just when metered out fairly and equally. Arbitrary disproportionate punishment proves injustice rather than justice. Cutting off hands and feet for minor offence like theft compared with random forgiveness of major transgressions is injustice not justice. The Quran promises eternal damnation and humiliating punishment for apparently minor crimes like annoying the prophet (Surah 33:35), while at the same time legitimizing systematic rape of women captured in war (Surah 4:24).


In summary The God of the Bible is Love and desires a relationship with his children. While the god of the Quran is unpredictable, is the author of all misery and pain, and has created mankind to be slaves and servants and has predetermined you fate in paradise, by removing your free will.

Regards Doug

Allah is not the Father of Jesus, he is the demiurge. Many Christians worship the same God as Muslims, so the argument can be made. However, the God who does good to those who do evil to Him identified as the Father of Jesus in the Gospel is confirmed to not be the God of the Quran when it denies that Jesus is the son of God.
 
Upvote 0

JESUS=G.O.A.T

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2016
2,681
659
27
Houston
✟68,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There are some testimonies of some muslims who supposedly experienced an almost death experience and they said ALLAH and JESUS said i'm not ALLAH and he showed them allah as a moon demon. They all interestingly converted to christianity after this.


Additionally the quran has certain differences. Great question though.


Another problem though the bible says this


NEither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.


Even if allah were a uh different name for the same God per say the bible says the only way we can be saved is through the name of JESUS.



That's my take though.
 
Upvote 0

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We Muslims believe that Allah is the one and only God and Jesus is one of his prophets just like Moses and Jacob and Abraham and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them).
Hi EliaHarr
Thank you for your reply and confirming the Islamic statement of faith. I respect your belief in this. Thus you would then agree The Quran supports idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116)

Yet Islamic source show that Allah was one of many pagan gods in Mecca prior to Muhammad’s revelations of the Quran that were worshipped at the Kaaba (The Kaaba is the square structure in Mecca Muslim pilgrims walk around seven time and kiss the black meteorite stone, which is reminiscent and remains from this period) Not must be made that three goddess were taken as daughter of Allah and worshipped as intercessors, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manant. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.)

Are you comfortable with the fact if the Islamic source is correct your eternity may be in jeopardy?

Regards Doug
 
Upvote 0

EliaHarr

Member
Dec 26, 2016
14
1
27
Algeria
✟7,610.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Hi EliaHarr
Thank you for your reply and confirming the Islamic statement of faith. I respect your belief in this. Thus you would then agree The Quran supports idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116)

Yet Islamic source show that Allah was one of many pagan gods in Mecca prior to Muhammad’s revelations of the Quran that were worshipped at the Kaaba (The Kaaba is the square structure in Mecca Muslim pilgrims walk around seven time and kiss the black meteorite stone, which is reminiscent and remains from this period) Not must be made that three goddess were taken as daughter of Allah and worshipped as intercessors, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manant. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.)

Are you comfortable with the fact if the Islamic source is correct your eternity may be in jeopardy?

Regards Doug
Hi Doug,

Well first of all let me tell you that before Muhammad (pbuh) there were many people worshiping many gods, and Qureish (a clan in Mecca at that time) made a lot of idols to worship and put them in Kaaba so when Islam came Allah ordered Muhammad and the Muslims to destroy those idols so it can be the holy place for Muslims like it used to be when built by Abraham (pbuh) first.

So I'm not bothered with the history of Kaaba before the arrival of Islam.

Regards Elias.
 
  • Like
Reactions: huskcrow
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A book I really enjoyed reading was Miroslav Volf's, "Allah: A Christian Response." In this challenging book, the author presents well the argument that the God of Islam is the same God as that of Christianity - in terms of political theology. His argument is based on the precept that the vast majority of Muslims and Christians just want to live peaceful lives dedicated to loving their God, and their neighbors.

Hi Kiterius.
Thank you for your reply.no I have not read this book howevr I have just spent some time reading a review on it. https://exposingheresy.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/allah-a-christian-response-book-review.pdf

Interesting that one of the the endorsers of the book is Brian McLaren who is noted as been involved with a New Age occultismi. Then there is Phillip Jenkins. Ahain I quote the review “Jenkins is a failed scholar who ignores essential principles of anthropology and psychology pertinent to ancient civilizations. He simplistically pastes a contemporary populist view over complex events of antiquity.”

Are these the type of people we should be looking to if we are truly seeking a path to eternity with which ever God you choose?

One claim made by Miroslav Volf is his view that a Muslim can remain as such, and adopt Christianity 100% , and still be okay in his faith.

I doubt that any Muslim will allow his brother to worship the Holy Trinity and be a Muslim. I can tell you with certainty the biblical God did not allow it in Exodus 32 and would not allow it today.

With regard to Islam been peaceful religion one just has to review the historical records of the early years of the Islamic faith. Look at the last 10 years of Muhammad’s life and you will dramatically change that view.


Regards Doug
 
Upvote 0

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Allah is not the Father of Jesus, he is the demiurge. Many Christians worship the same God as Muslims, so the argument can be made. However, the God who does good to those who do evil to Him identified as the Father of Jesus in the Gospel is confirmed to not be the God of the Quran when it denies that Jesus is the son of God.

Hi Michael.
To be honest I had to read you post several time to understand what you were saying. I must say if your faith status is correct "Christian Church Seeker" you most probably have more understanding of God than most professing Christians.
Please keep seeking and the truth will be revealed to you. Revelations 3:20 has just come to mind. Trust me you will enjoy the meal.

Regards Doug
 
Upvote 0

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are some testimonies of some muslims who supposedly experienced an almost death experience and they said ALLAH and JESUS said i'm not ALLAH and he showed them allah as a moon demon. They all interestingly converted to christianity after this.


Additionally the quran has certain differences. Great question though.


Another problem though the bible says this

NEither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.


Even if allah were a uh different name for the same God per say the bible says the only way we can be saved is through the name of JESUS.

That's my take though.

Hi Jesus-G.O.A.T
Firstly you must tell me what the G.O.A.T stand for?

On the names of God. As mentioned the Hebrew word for God is “elohim” and is used approximately 2,500 times in the Bible. Funny thing in God final revelation the Quran this name is not used once. Despite the fact there are 99 different names for Allah. Elohim is not one of them.

Can Muslims honestly say that it is the same God? Yet two scripture in the bible are proof that Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible. This to me is not a well balanced scale!

Regards Doug
 
Upvote 0

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Mountainmanbob

Goat Whisperer
Site Supporter
Sep 6, 2016
15,961
10,817
73
92040
✟1,096,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We Muslims believe that Allah is the one and only God and Jesus is one of his prophets just like Moses and Jacob and Abraham and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them).

Christian here and I agree with your thoughts as being from the Muslim view point and they prove the point of -- no, in no way do we worship the same God.

Actually, I spell one God and the other god.

The Bible speaks of many gods using the little letter g.

M-Bob
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Doug,

Well first of all let me tell you that before Muhammad (pbuh) there were many people worshiping many gods, and Qureish (a clan in Mecca at that time) made a lot of idols to worship and put them in Kaaba so when Islam came Allah ordered Muhammad and the Muslims to destroy those idols so it can be the holy place for Muslims like it used to be when built by Abraham (pbuh) first.

So I'm not bothered with the history of Kaaba before the arrival of Islam.

Regards Elias.

Hi Elias.
The issue at hand is not if interested in Islamic history. The fact is that Muhammad adopted the name of a know Idol "Allah" for god.

Logic applies here a true prophet would never affirm idolatry.

Muslims claim 99 names for Allah. Yet Elohim is not one of them. Yet is used some 2,500 times in the Bible.
A book the Quran tells you to revere and believe. Not only that your very own scholars agree to this. for example Abu Ali Husain Bin Sina.
Your Quran says idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116)

NOW you say you are not interested. Wow

I suggest you take lots of water for the trip.

Regards Doug
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

EliaHarr

Member
Dec 26, 2016
14
1
27
Algeria
✟7,610.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Hi Elias.
The issue at hand is not if interested in Islamic history. The fact is that Muhammad adopted the name of a know Idol "Allah" for god.

Logic applies here a true prophet would never affirm idolatry.

Muslims claim 99 names for Allah. Yet Elohim is not one of them. Yet is used some 2,500 times in the Bible.
A book the Quran tells you to revere and believe. Not only that your very own scholars agree to this. for example Abu Ali Husain Bin Sina.
Your Quran says idol worship as an unforgivable sin. (Surah 4:48, 31:13, 4:116)

NOW you say you are not interested. Wow

I suggest you take lots of water for the trip.

Regards Doug
Hi Doug,

For I'm not concerned if an idol was called Allah once, because of two things:
Firstly, I don't know if the name "Allah" is new because it isn't mentioned in our scripts so there isn't a proof if that name belongs to an idol.
Secondly, names don't concern us Muslims in general because if the god we believe in said call me Allah we just obey.

And a note: Allah told us to believe in all holy books but only if we knew they aren't distorted and since we don't have a way to know that we only believe in what resembles to what we have in Quran.
 
Upvote 0

Kiterius

CF's Favorite Member
Dec 24, 2016
1,268
826
Earth
✟32,893.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hi Kiterius.
Thank you for your reply.no I have not read this book howevr I have just spent some time reading a review on it. https://exposingheresy.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/allah-a-christian-response-book-review.pdf

Interesting that one of the the endorsers of the book is Brian McLaren who is noted as been involved with a New Age occultismi. Then there is Phillip Jenkins. Ahain I quote the review “Jenkins is a failed scholar who ignores essential principles of anthropology and psychology pertinent to ancient civilizations. He simplistically pastes a contemporary populist view over complex events of antiquity.”

Are these the type of people we should be looking to if we are truly seeking a path to eternity with which ever God you choose?

One claim made by Miroslav Volf is his view that a Muslim can remain as such, and adopt Christianity 100% , and still be okay in his faith.

I doubt that any Muslim will allow his brother to worship the Holy Trinity and be a Muslim. I can tell you with certainty the biblical God did not allow it in Exodus 32 and would not allow it today.

With regard to Islam been peaceful religion one just has to review the historical records of the early years of the Islamic faith. Look at the last 10 years of Muhammad’s life and you will dramatically change that view.


Regards Doug

It isn't as if Christians have always been peaceful either. Consider the crusades, the residential school system, even Christians burning other Christians at the stake - all these things and more are part of Christian history. The point that the vast majority of Christians and Muslims are now peaceful people neither erases nor excuses the history of either religion, nor the current acts of extremists.
 
Upvote 0

DWA2DAY

convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!
Nov 12, 2016
416
62
59
Paarl Western Cape
✟20,716.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Elias.

I must say I admire you “blind Faith” approach to your faith. However your lack of understanding to the history, formation and contents of Islamic traditions is disappointing on even Islamic standards. For Example you say”-

Firstly, I don't know if the name "Allah" is new .

Ignorance forms no defense in the spiritual or worldly matters. For example assume I were caught speeding on a highway, the judge would not accept the defense “Oh sorry I do not know I wasseeding” as a defense. Similarly one would expect before we go through our daily spiritual rituals we should know the foundation of who and what our deity is and represents?



because it isn't mentioned in our scripts so there isn't a proof if that name belongs to an idol.

It is mentioned in Islamic text and traditions and I have already given you the reference to this. (Ibn al-Kalbi’s ‘Kitab al-Asnam-The Book of Idols, see chapter ‘Al-Uzza.) Thus your denial that there is not any proof has no foundation and thus raises the question, “what other part of Islamic Faith do you simply ignore because you do not like it?



Secondly, names don't concern us Muslims in general because if the god we believe in said call me Allah we just obey.

For this statement to be true you would need to prove that the Hadeeth and the 99 names ascribe to Allah in Islamic text are false or not there. This would you require to challenge the Quran and the Hadeeth’s and I doubt Islamic law would agree with you. Thus I seriously doubt that Muslims on the whole are not concered in the names ascribed to Allah.

More importantly you have not addressed the question posed to you.

And a note: Allah told us to believe in all holy books but only if we knew they aren't distorted and since we don't have a way to know that we only believe in what resembles to what we have in Quran.

Again you are using a selective argument as above. “I do not like it so it must be false” yet as noted before the Quran say different. I have yet to find or read a passage in the Quran or Hadeeth that support you claim. Here are the key Quran verse to prove Mohammed knew these text to be authentic - Surah 5:36-38, 35:31, 3:3, 12:111, 29:46, 10:37, 5:66, 2:113, 3:78-79, 16:43, 5:68, 9:30, 10:94.

Again if you knew your Islamic history you would know that many of the great Muslim thinkers had accepted the authority of the bible, Historians – Al-Mas’udi and Ibn-Khaldun. Theologians – Ali at-Tabari, Qasim al-Khasani, Amr al-Ghakhiz and of course the famous Al-Ghazzali. Then of course there are some on the western Islamic scholars I mentioned in my previous post.

Thus it is clear from the Quran teaching and Islamic scholars at the time of the recitation of the Quran biblical text were considered authentic and un-corrupted as you claim.

Therefore for your claim to be true you would have to prove the bible has been changed and corrupted. To date due to the volume of pre-Islamic Christian documents are available no Muslim scholar has been able to do this.


I am amassed at the continue claim by Muslims on this topic as the argument can be reversed, for example, you say the text is corrupted and unreliable, however the two obscure passage Muslims claim prophecy Muhammad are not. If logic prevailed let’s do some math’s.

There are some 31,000 verses in the bible. All have been corrupted save for two. Therefore 0,000064% of the bible is accurate. Give us Christians a break let’s as it is 10% true. Surly this brings into question if 90% is wrong can we honestly accept that the other 10% is correct. Nor a good platform for a solid argument is it.

Thus from the above statement I understand you are not in agreement with the Quran teachings on the basis as you disregard the ones you do not like. But accept Islam’s other teachings in blind faith because someone said the Bible is corrupted?

I understand the process when ones core faith is challenged and we as humans are closed and we do not hear or understand another perspective. However in all honesty an outright disregard of facts I do not believe is this beneficial to ones meeting the requirement for entry into paradise?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GrowingSmaller

Muslm Humanist
Apr 18, 2010
7,421
345
✟49,085.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
In summary The God of the Bible is Love and desires a relationship with his children. While the god of the Quran is unpredictable, is the author of all misery and pain, and has created mankind to be slaves and servants and has predetermined you fate in paradise, by removing your free will.

Regards Doug
In Christianity God can do no harm, in islam God allows (causes) harm to come on those who follow others advice. I suppose its axioms, and theyre similar positions really.. Allah advises stay away from harmful things, and things which corrupt the body and mind. Obviously if you disobey your hand will be in the fire so to speak - that is part of Allah's rigor. No harm, no bad, and no sin no harm as a rule. Yes we have tests and trials, its not a magical release form the world, but "piety" ie taqua is rooted in a etymology: piety is meant to be protection, safeguarding, a release from harmful causes etc.

So God authors the pain, just like he created our bodies in a finite fashion - biologically we are on trial in the sense we are designed to need to be healthy, the flip side being disease and discomfort etc - they're inbuilt trajectories. Obviously is all actions were beneficial any sin wouldn't be a sin after all.

I think the main schism is in Islam Allah created and orders the harmful aspect of creation. The devil leads men there (by disobedience, they heard the message but did not obey the "good healthy advice"), but Allah controls it - the feedback for sin (storms, earthquakes, fires floodes etc I see as metaphors) . Whereas in Christianity, I think all harm is blamed on the devil.

Think, the pit in the psalms. God is the overall master of all, but its the sinners who go there.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0