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Are all Jews Zionists?

Discussion in 'Israel Prophecy & Current Events' started by Mary7, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Mary7

    Mary7 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am confused on this topic. As a Christian, I have always supported Israel but recently someone told me that 'real Jews' (his term) are different than Zionists. I have read over the years that an alarming number of Israelis are aetheists. I googled the subject and found sites written by rabbis saying they do not believe the Lord has re established the Land yet. So are most Jews Zionists? Are you as Messianic, converted Jews or former denominational Christians?
    Or maybe refer me to a forum run by Jews to ask them?
    thank you
     
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  2. Pentateuch and Yeshua

    Pentateuch and Yeshua Active Member

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    It depends what you mean by Zionist... Conspiracy theorists have warped the term into a some kind of NWO catch-all that allows them to express anti-semitsm without saying "Jew".

    Zion = Israel, the God of Israel promised the land to Abraham's decendants and so the God of Israel and Abraham both believed that the land of Zion/Israel should belong to his descendants (Israelites, ie Jews) and so did all of the following Jews throughout the Tanakh/Old Testament and the in the times of Jesus/Yeshua - and Jews have yearned to return to Israel and in 1948 the state of Israel was politically reestablished and many Jews from all over the world returned and turned the barren wasteland into a lush garden and a haven anyone seeking equality and freedom in the middle east.
    ALL of the above people could be referred to legitimately as Zionists, including the God of Zion/Israel Himself.

    There are political groups that I believe are a group that are referred to as Zionists, but when people refer to zionists in the commonly used way, the hatefilled way, they refer to pro-Israel Jews (or just Jews full-stop). Islamic-originated and New Age/Communist (the two actually often go hand in hand)-originated conspiracy theorists all just hate Jews, in essence, regardless of their claims otherwise.
     
  3. Mary7

    Mary7 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know about the Jews wanting to go back to their homeland etc. But what I am asking is... there are many web sites written by Rabbi's that are against 'zionism'.. they say when Israel is restored to them it will be done by Messiah and not the military. They are saying that 'zionists' are not necessarily true adherents of the jewish faith. So, as that one person told me.. there are 'zionists' who may be jews but not adhere to the jewish faith and in fact may be atheists.. and then there are Jews that practice Judaism.
     
  4. Pentateuch and Yeshua

    Pentateuch and Yeshua Active Member

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    Yeah, there are secular Jews - I came across a few on a Jewish forum recently who were trying to convince me that Genesis is a load of rubbish and that our ancestors are rocks that became DNA strands that became cells that became monkeys (in a far more eloquent way, of course) and I was so flabbergasted to see that even today there are Israelites falling into the trap of believing the religions of the nations, looking in wonder at their gods of wood and stone (fossils) for answers and denying the God of Israel. These very same Jews probably (I haven't witnessed these specific ones saying so) probably would call ME unJewish because I believe that Yeshua is messiah..., Ironic, eh? :p
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    There is an old joke about having 4 Jews together and having 5 opinions.

    There is no overall consensus. Yes, the majority of Jews are either agnostics or atheists. That includes a majority of those living in Israel. And most of them are Zionists.

    And there are a few groups of ultra orthodox religious Jews who decry the existence of the state of Israel. Some of them even supported former President Ahmadinejad in Iran in his call for its destruction.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-assembly-iran-jewsint-idUSTRE48O00E20080925
     
  6. Jimbo Baggins

    Jimbo Baggins New Member

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    In many ways whether a Jewish person believes it or not, they are by definition 'Zionists'...eg the 'People of Zion', although
    in modern parlance it was to do with the longing for the land of their forefathers, and now that has been achieved is to do with support for the Jewish nation of Israel. Christians that are Zionists (those without an agenda) support the nation of Israel.

    'True Jews' is usually a reference to the Ultra Orthodox Satmar Jews and in particular the sect of Neturei Karta that have less than 10,000 members. They believe the modern State of Israel is a travesty and is the work of man and has nothing to do with biblical prophecy...they believe the Jews around the world should continue to be 'nationless' until such a time as they repent and then G-d Himself will pave the way and restore them to the land.

    The thing is G-d has a habit of doing things in ways we could never fathom (always according to His word though) and through instruments (people) that we would not have chosen or thought were ineligible.
     
  7. yonah_mishael

    yonah_mishael הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

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    You just need to look at their arguments to see that they are wrong. Compare the arguments of the anti-Zionists to the arguments of those who support the State of Israel and the need for a refuge for the Jewish people, and you’ll see which side is right.

    I’m not suggesting that the State of Israel has done everything right. Politics has undermined so much in modern life, including making the right decision based on ethical considerations. However, Israel certainly does all she can in most cases to ensure the lowest number of civilian casualties in war. If Israel must fight for her survival, then she must fight. If those who oppose Israel would agree to peace, we would have peace.
     
  8. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    The term "Zionist" is a modern political term. It indicates that one supports the restoration of the state of Israel, and the return of the Jewish people to that homeland.

    Because it is a political word, we find some odd-sounding correlations when we add a religious component. There are pro-Zionist Christians, and there are anti-Zionist Jews.

    Anti-Zionist Jews tend to be more Orthodox, and resist the re-establishment of Israel on religious grounds. They believe only Messiah can restore the nation and the people.

    There are also non-Orthodox Jews who resist Zionism. They tend to be on the left-leaning end of the political spectrum, and believe that Israel has no more right to the Land than do the Arabs hwho have settled there.

    But being pro-Zionist ultimately is not a matter of religious persuasion. There are plenty of atheist, secular, and Reform Jews who long for the Jewish return to Zion, the Jewish homeland.

    Similarly, there are both Zionist and anti-Zionist Christians. This IS largely a matter of religious principle. Christians who believe the Church has superseded Israel (replacement theology) tend to see no purpose in a Jewish homeland, and believe Zionism is, at best, a waste of time and resources. On the other hand, for Christians who do not hold consciously to replacement theology (mostly those in the Protestant groupings), they believe Israel needs to return to the land before Messiah can return and reign.
     
  9. janwoG

    janwoG My heart leads me to Messianic Judaism Supporter

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    Every believing Jews are praying next Year in Jerusalem. However, many godless Jews, specially Leftists are anti-Zionist and some are a real curse of Humanity like George Soros (alias Schwarz) and the founders of the Francfort School of cultural Marxism of which Hillary (Goy) is a fervent supporter.
     
  10. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

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    This was the case in 1897 when the first Zionist congress connived. Orthodox Jews did not support the movement because they are looking for the Messiah to return them to the land. They viewed this (correctly politically speaking) as purely a secular move.

    While Israel is largely a secular nation it does have many observant Jews from Orthodoxy to messianic
     
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